MSU @ Ford Field discussion -- entertainment for the very bored

Submitted by MMBbones on May 27th, 2023 at 10:11 AM

Many of us, myself included, have relatives and close friends who had to go the MSU route. While we sympathize and act conciliatory, yeah... 

This response from an angry MSU supporter about the MSU-PSU game being moved to Ford Field is fairly well-written:

https://thegame730am.com/michigan-state-penn-state-moved-ford-field-detroit/

A cute response on RCMB: "honestly it reads like it was written by a secret Michigan fan trying secretly to kill support for the MSU program in all facets, attendance, fandom, money, donations, etc."

(Don't bother clicking, but here's the proof of fact: https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/Contents/article-on-ford-field-debacle-by-beanie-210784878/?page=2

Frankly, I'm bored on a Saturday morning so I drifted around the Internet. If anyone here at MGoBlog cares enough about MSU to try to "secretly...kill support for the MSU program" please acknowledge yourself so I can be slightly less arrogant. I can't imagine any of us care about them to that extent. 

MGoBoard
Football

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^

 I can't imagine any of us care about them to that extent. 

Yet, you created this thread based almost entirely on some comment on the MSU message boards?  That says you certainly care about this more than most.

Some MSU people hate this Ford Field idea, some love it.  Personally, I don't love the idea of sitting outside in East Landfill for 3-4 hours in late November.  Give me Ford Field over Sparty Stadium any day of the week.  Plus, this is over Thanksgiving break, so a ton of students wouldn't be showing up to this game in EL.  They'll probably get better attendance from students and the general public in Detroit.  This venue change makes sense to me.

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

Tunneler

May 27th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^

This was a bait and switch on the season ticket holders. The 2nd most important game on their schedule was taken from them. They will get a refund for that game and then a chance to repurchase at Ford Field, probably at an increased price. Most of them hate it, so I’m for it.

Joined: 08/01/2013

MGoPoints: 26034

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^

I wonder if most really do hate it.  I discussed this with of my 3 MSU buddies and all 3 of them loved this idea.  Online, it seems most hate it, but online people hate on everything.  MSU could offer free handjobs and people would get online and bitch that MSU isn't giving away free blowjobs.

I imagine most season ticket holders hate it, while students, non-season ticket holders, and Detroit residents love it.

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

MMBbones

May 27th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^

"Yet, you created this thread based almost entirely on some comment on the MSU message boards?  That says you certainly care about this more than most."

Being born and raised on a farm in Michigan, yeah, I'm sure I care about MSU more than 99% of Americana. But that's a pretty low bar to jump...

Joined: 08/28/2008

MGoPoints: 9882

jmblue

May 27th, 2023 at 1:02 PM ^

Some MSU people hate this Ford Field idea, some love it.  Personally, I don't love the idea of sitting outside in East Landfill for 3-4 hours in late November.  Give me Ford Field over Sparty Stadium any day of the week

But you're a Michigan fan and (I presume) feel no connection to East Lansing or Spartan Stadium.  You're looking at it from a detached perspective, not the perspective of an actual fan of the school.

I would never, under any circumstances, want a game moved from Michigan Stadium.  I don't care what the weather forecast is.

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102835

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^

 You're looking at it from a detached perspective

On the contrary, I'm trying to look at it thru the perspective of an MSU fan whose team will be 3-8 going into the PSU game and whose fans would probably only fill half of Spartan Stadium in a 10-degree late November game where PSU is going to destroy them.  From that perspective, give me warm indoor seating to watch my dogshit program get murdered by PSU in primetime.

As a Michigan fan, I agree.  I hate when we do Neutral site games.

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

JonnyHintz

May 27th, 2023 at 9:34 PM ^

From an attached perspective, I’d absolutely not be going to a late November home game where I know Michigan is going to get destroyed while we limp to a 4 or 5 win season. I’d imagine a large portion of the MSU fan base feels similar.

Joined: 01/11/2015

MGoPoints: 48407

TruBluMich

May 27th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^

Blowing a 16-point fourth-quarter lead to Notre Dame in 2006.

Getting whooped by "Juice" Williams the following week on homecoming, while Kermit the Frog was doing skits on the Spartan Stadium jumbotron between quarters.

Drew Stanton going down against Michigan, leading to a huge blown lead and soul-crushing loss in triple overtime in 2004.

Isaiah Lewis running into the punter, bailing Wisconsin out from an epic Keshawn Martin punt return and another MSU comeback in the inaugural Big Ten championship game.

Any of the times we've lost to Central.

Any of the times Alabama has humiliated us.

And, now, May 2023, when Michigan State voluntarily gave away a home game, just to help the Big Ten appease an angry TV partner.

If those are the unquestionable worst moments of the writer's experience as a fan, student, and alum. Then I'm just not going to read the rest.

Joined: 08/03/2011

MGoPoints: 21980

MGoGrendel

May 27th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

It appears that his football history started at the turn of the century!  And he left out Michigan being selected for the Sugar Bowl.  

There are so many more Sparty No! moments he’s left out just in the decade before his first memory…
 

Joined: 01/21/2013

MGoPoints: 70271

MMBbones

May 27th, 2023 at 7:00 PM ^

"The original piece is poorly written replete with dubious logic.  But he is a self-proclaimed MSU alum so……yeah."

When I said in the OP it was "fairly well written" I was grading on a curve. For an MSU alum, there was laudable indication of an ability to type and spell at a level beyond the fourth-grade. So I felt congratulations were in order.

Joined: 08/28/2008

MGoPoints: 9882

Tunneler

May 27th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^

I think UM should breakaway from the B1G with OSU to form a super league with the big boys, leaving little bro in the dust. But them losing a home game in spartan stadium is good too.

Joined: 08/01/2013

MGoPoints: 26034

ST3

May 27th, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^

I read that yesterday. The writer is your typical, delusional Spartan. It gets worse from here:
 

Last year, the Big Ten could have stepped in while Jim Harbaugh and every other U-M sycophant (read: Detroit media) were assassinating the character and basically calling for the summary execution of eight MSU football players who committed the unforgivable sin of *checks notes* getting into a fight. 
 

Joined: 09/11/2010

MGoPoints: 52559

XM - Mt 1822

May 27th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^

'getting into a fight' is like characterizing the russo/ukraine war as a little 'border dust-up'.   what sparty did was basically a gang beat-down.

and as to the 'no big time program would do this', not sure that's accurate.  i remember michigan v. alabama at jerry world.  found a list of some big games just in the 2021 season in a 2 second interweb search: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2931717-best-neutral-site-games-in-2021-college-football-season

trying to be objective about it, sparty is likely to have a losing record by that time of year and possibly something like 3-8.  it's during thanksgiving and they are barely above a commuter school, so that stadium could indeed resemble that great pic that EGJ posts.  

bottom line:  it might not be the worst decision in the world to have moved the game.  i mean, hopefully it's miserable for them, but you can rationalize it at this point. 

Joined: 12/21/2011

MGoPoints: 103399

Blue@LSU

May 27th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^

And then followed up with this:

Worse, their reputations were forever tarnished by a 59-year-old man with an undiagnosed personality disorder who's never been told no in his life, and his legions of adult fanboys.

Fuck that guy.  

Joined: 11/04/2016

MGoPoints: 80123

OneEyedMooseSm…

May 27th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^

The move to that Friday night game in Detroit makes cents for where EL A & M's program is at right now.

"Eight MSU football players who committed the unforgivable sin of *checks notes* getting into a fight."  Eight dudes punching, kicking, and swinging helmets at one guy isn't a fight, it's an assault.

It's a decent article, it distills the essence of Little Brother, the best one since perhaps Seth's [?] Sparty Hate Machine one.  It may be in their Pantheon of screeds along with Valenti's back in the day.

Joined: 03/11/2021

MGoPoints: 3725

LSAClassOf2000

May 27th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^

Believe me, we try very hard here not to care about our conference mates in East Lansing at all, but proximity to them does occasionally bring a bit of chatter here and it is difficult to prevent all of it. 

I do applaud this person for finding a way to pretend anyone outside of the Michigan State sphere cares that they are now being shorted a home game though, even when no one actually does. It reeks of a cry for sympathy, something that we don't generally do in the Big Ten as a matter of practice. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

MGoPoints: 130636

Bobby Digital

May 27th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^

I thought Mel Tucker was the one killing support for the MSU program in all facets, attendance, fandom, money, donations, etc.

Joined: 07/05/2008

MGoPoints: 5376

LB

May 27th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^

Look, I'm good but there is no way I can compete with what Sparty does to themselves.

Joined: 09/26/2009

MGoPoints: 25605

mtzlblk

May 27th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^

4. Why is MSU doing the Big Ten any favors?

 

Regarding everything he wrote here, just lol. Maybe....just maybe.....when the whole world sees something that occurred and squarely pins the blame on your bunch of thug players and low class coaches and their low character motivational tactics.....maybe it is time to look in the mirror rather than try and play the martyr. The Bush incident was clearly instigated by Dantony, facts are facts. And hmmmm.....interpreting a 30 on 2, unprovoked beat down where Spartan players were attempting to cause serious bodily damage upon defenseless M players by hammering them repeatedly with a helmet as "getting in a fight" is.......checks my own notes.......dumb as fuck and makes you look like you are....well, DAF. Trying to cast Spartans as experiencing some level of martyrdom because they are repeatedly called out for poor sportsmanship and cheap shot type antics is ludicrous. 

What the B10 owes you is the appropriate number and level of suspensions that should have been handed down earlier to curb your behavior and a stern warning to clean yourselves up or get dropped altogether.

News flash......you didn't "just admit" that MSU isn't a big time program by moving a game....... you're just finally realizing it. You're not. You never have been. You never will be. You've never been nationally relevant. No one outside EL gives two shits about what happens to your football team. 

Joined: 01/20/2009

MGoPoints: 5019

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^

your bunch of thug players

We could, and should, do better than use racially-coded words to insult our rivals.  This isn't needed.

EDIT: Per the mods of this website/forum in a different thread regarding the word:

1) it's a highly-charged term with definite racial connotations.

2) It's long been addressed by Brian in the MGoBoard FAQ section

Unfortunately there are a few involved in this thread who persist in continued denial that languages evolve.  Bottom line: The fact that the word "thug" (and its variations) now has very real negative racial connotations has been recognized for several years; OTOH the recognition of this fact does NOT make one racist. 

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

mtzlblk

May 27th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^

Thug is a term that has been around for eons and only has racial implications if you have a racist mentality to start with. I don't. I live in San Francisco, I'm far left politically, I have nieces and nephews that are mixed AA and my son is half Bolivian. A conservative would call me "woke."

The origins of the word are ancient and come from Sanskrit. 

Look up thug as a term anywhere and there is no mention of any race element to it. 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/thug

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/thug

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/thug

Joined: 01/20/2009

MGoPoints: 5019

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^

From literally the first link (dictionary.com) you provided:

USAGE NOTE FOR THUG:

The word thug has had racial and cultural overtones since its adoption into the English language. It entered English during the British colonial period to describe a particular gang of criminals in India, but from the beginning, the otherness of the Indian robbers was intrinsic to the narrative about British colonial victims.

In American English, the word is disproportionately applied to nonwhite perpetrators of violence or crime. White teens disturbing the peace at a party with loud music are more likely to be called troublemakers or hooligans. Their Black peers are more likely to be labeled thugs for the same offense. And following this common racialized usage, thug is used by some and interpreted by many as a code word for Black. In extreme cases, thug is chosen as a dog whistle to imply that Black people are generally prone to violence or criminality.

Thank you for providing the EXACT link that proves my point.  This didn't go well for you.

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

mtzlblk

May 27th, 2023 at 1:10 PM ^

"and interpreted by many"

Not me, do as you wish. The beauty of free will.

I included that link on purpose.....one clear definition of the term up top in all of them......in one link a single vague representation of what you're alluding to below that. That's a great ratio in my favor. 

Since it derives from ancient Sanskrit, can we be offended for the people of India back in the day also?

Also, to be clear, this is a term self-selected by a group of musicians and applied, promoted and embraced.....on their own.....representing a non-detagotery label of respect in their world. This isn't a holdover term applied to them by their oppressors. 

Look, I hear you and am in general aligned with what you are saying. Language and terminology ARE important and we should strive to change these when they are derogatory or in any way my minimize a group of people. In this case, I think we just calibrate differently where the line is on that, especially in this case. 

 

Joined: 01/20/2009

MGoPoints: 5019

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 1:49 PM ^

Dude, you provided the link and then said if I look inside the link there is zero mention of race anywhere on the page, when 90% of the entire page explains to you why it's a racist dog-whistle.  Your own link says you're being a racist, lol.

Regarding your logic of "well rappers use the word, so I should be able to use it, too!" the link you provided has this to say on that matter:

In the U.S., the word thug has a history of being used by racist white people who specifically apply it to African American men to portray them as violent criminals. When used in this way, it is often thought to function as a substitute for a racist slur.

For this reason, some African Americans have reclaimed the word as a positive identifier. It is especially used in hip-hop, particularly in the phrase thug life.

Your own link says you're using it as a racist slur.  Not a great look.  Be better!

 

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

mooseman

May 27th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^

I personally don't think it's a big deal but language evolves. Listing your liberal bona fides and relatives doesn't change that. I won't use thug because it has taken on a different implication than it used to. I can deal with that, it's not a big sacrifice.

A swastika is Sanskrit too. (I am NOT equating the use of word thug and swastikas--it's just an extreme example of how the use of words and symbols can change.)

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 35512

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^

 Listing your liberal bona fides and relatives doesn't change that.

Yea, that's the classic, "nothing I say or do can be racist, since I have black friends" fallacy.  It's the same logic as saying you couldn't possibly be sexist because there are women in your family.

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390

Colt Burgess

May 27th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^

I've been around for more than 6 decades, and in my experience people have been using the word thug as long as I can remember to refer to criminal types. Watch old movies and television shows and you'll hear it used towards anyone who breaks the law regardless of color. It has only been within the last 10 -15  years that I have heard someone claim that it is a racist term. 

Joined: 02/20/2021

MGoPoints: 12994

Blue@LSU

May 27th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^

But it probably means they are less likely to be racist, no? I mean, doesn't the research show that the more positive interactions (i.e., friendships, solid family relations) you have with people from different races, the less likely you are to be a racist?

Or, here's a thought, maybe we can just not put people into a situation where they feel they have to give their 'liberal' bona fides in order to prove they aren't a racist.

I personally avoid the word thug because of its connotation. But absent other evidence, I'm not going to assume someone is a racist just because they use that term.

And now I'm wondering why the fuck I even got into this discussion because I hate these debates on the board. 

Joined: 11/04/2016

MGoPoints: 80123

mtzlblk

May 27th, 2023 at 6:43 PM ^

First off.....having nephews who are like sons to me ( my sister is deceased) and a mixed son are light years from saying "I have a few black friends." I have real experience in helping them deal with and navigate real racism that they have dealt with for decades. Nice try, but not.

I'm so very proud of you oh mighty SJW, you are so pure and perfect, if we could all be so woke and pious as you. It must be lonely there in your kingdom of righteousness amid your sterling towers of indignation making sure you're appropriately offended for everybody else.

I'm done here, but a few parting thoughts for you.

1. I have done more for making this world a better place than any of your keyboard vitriol and "I have all the answers" rhetoric ever has. Material, real change. Person-to-person, hands on, actual, significant time out of my life type activities where I can see the difference it makes and know the names of the people for who I have made difference. Many weekends at a table in the Haight handing out buttons for the Green Party, years volunteering at W.J. Maxey, teaching computer and programming classes at Glide to kids here in the Tenderloin who otherwise would never have access to technology, programs to help high school kids complete their resumes, programs to help them write their college essays, etc, etc. But you go dude and police the internet for word usage.....your keyboard is just OH SO Powerful......not.  

2. You may not realize it, but your attitude and approach here does more harm than good with regard to the values you profess to hold so dear. Snotty, pompous, self-righteousness is a bad look no matter what side you're on. 

You can tell me to do better........I'd suggest you DO something.

Peace out.

Joined: 01/20/2009

MGoPoints: 5019

42-27

May 27th, 2023 at 10:34 PM ^

That's a lot of words for what boils down to "I like to use racist slurs online while I brag about supposed real-life accolades."

You like to toss around racist slurs and get angry when people point out that you like to toss around racist slurs.  Just admit it.

Dude, Brian and the owners/mods of this website even say the use of this racist slur isn't allowed on the forums.  This shit has been discussed and settled for years.  Quit being a racist prick.  Be better!

Joined: 06/23/2022

MGoPoints: 8390