MSU Basketball "Injury" narrative
I know this isn't a particularly useful thread, I'm not breaking any news or linking anything, but it is a slow day and I think it is worth noting that the Michigan State "injuries" narrative is now completely out of control. I get that they beat us without a couple of key players, and that was an admirable performance, but I have been doing some reading on different outlets regarding perspectives on the upcoming Michigan game and at times I am unsure if I am reading a real article or a parody.
First, I am kind of over hearing that Michigan State is "without Josh Langford." Josh Langford hasn't played in a game for two months. He is not on their team right now. MSU is without Josh Langford in the same way we were "without Mitch McGary" in 2014 (which nobody even mentioned when it came to Michigan that year).
Next, as of this typing, Izzo has spoken in press conferences and media appearances about 1) Kyle Ahren's back, 2) Matt McQuaid with a "slightly sprained angle, 3) Cassius Winston with "tendonitis that is limiting him."
I seriously don't even remember reading in any post-game write-ups after the Maryland game that Charles Matthews did not play. It is also conveniently never brought up that he was out for nearly the entire first half against Michigan State and could not jump in the second half.
MSU does this EVERY SINGLE YEAR with the injury narrative. They are always a "mash unit" or the "walking wounded." And I think it can have a psychological impact on their opponents. I hope Beilein is pumping it into the players heads this week that Michigan State is not beat up. Langford isn't on the team this season. Kyle Ahrens averages 5.2 points per game and will play against Michigan. Winston and McQuaid have not missed anytime and I am not particularly interested in a practice ankle injury wherein the injured player has missed 0 games.
On Saturday, MSU will be without Ward and Michigan likely without Matthews. That is the injury story.
Overly long rant over.
I mean, they are missing two starters. I heard a lot about injuries from UM fans when Caris LeVert and Derick Walton got hurt. You're right that MSU plays this card every year though. BTW what UM was able to do in 2014 without McGary was really impressive. If Mitch was healthy Michigan would have won the national title that year.
The difference, as I recall it, was Michigan fans trying to talk other M fans off the ledge or getting them to stop complaining because we were playing walk ons due to injury (and losing). Whereas, Izzo is winning and complaining before and after games about how hard it is on him to have to coach this way.
That's Izzo's MO and everyone knows it, so not sure why it causes such consternation year after year. Just laugh and move on.
Half this board was calling for Beilein to be fired when we didn't have Lavert. It was insane.
Fire all the coaches. Then we won't complain.
Then there will be complaints about firing the coaches.
Not sure it was half the board, but this comment is ironic given who you are replying to. Since "old98" as he goes by now was the originator of a fire Beilein thread.
I don't have enough points to start my own thread, but this is the biggest "SpartyNo" video of all time...... Definitely worthy of its own thread strictly for ridiculousness.
Are you trying to thread jack every one on the site?
I mean, if we were out two starters and potentially a key bench player (Livers) we'd be royally fucked.
They are down one starter.
Langford hasn't played in two months. He isn't a starter.
If we had a starter that hadn't played in two months and then a second starter out a few weeks ago, there's no way in hell we'd only have 4 conference losses right now. You're delusional to think otherwise. Losing Langford would be like losing Iggy: 15 pts a game plus great D.
We were without Livers for a stretch and without Matthews for a stretch and we have not lost a game during either stretch.
In any case, I am not sure what your point is, I never said that our record would be the same if we were without multiple starters.
Livers is nowhere near valuable as Langford and even suggesting that is laughable. We've played two games without Matthews, not 2 months. You're either a troll or a complete idiot
Livers is a much better all-around player than Langford and it's not even close.
Josh Langford has scored 11 total points in his career against Michigan.
Livers basically plays starter minutes, is our best three point shooter, and maybe the most versatile player on the team. I think losing Livers/Langford is comparable.
You are coming across a little more like the troll.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/isaiah-livers-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/joshua-langford-1.html
Just try to take off the maize and blue blinders? This whole thread sounds like an MSU football fan bitching about U-M football and the "media narrative" surrounding the program. It's bush league. Just win the damn game. Period.
Stop up-voting yourself. It is unbecoming.
Look, I am a Michigan fan. I think Michigan State is acting hysterical about their injuries and that the media is slurping it up way too much. Type in Michigan State basketball into your search engine right now. Every single article that comes up is about injuries. McQuaid and Winston have both played 30 minutes or more in their last two games. Why is anybody talking about their "injuries."
I agree with you
You’re honestly way more hysterical about MSU’s injuries than any MSU fan I know
Funny. I guess you don't realize those links show that Livers is a more valuable player than Langford.
I was just thinking that...
Livers has more win shares this season than Langford had last season despite playing significantly fewer minutes.
That page is a GREAT argument for Livers > Langford.
Not if you understand how sample sizes affect statistics. If you are looking at career numbers, Langford averages 0.07 win shares per game. Livers also averages 0.07. The difference for this season is that Livers has .01 win shares per game more than Langford, which means they're basically a wash, but Langford contributes more points/assists per game, although with a higher volume. Doesn't really make much of an argument that Livers is head and shoulders above Langford like some of you are claiming.
Look at their respective oRTG and dRTG. Livers is much better in both regards.
Not to mention, Liver pays three positions which is huge.
Langford is awful
They have multiple rehabs open in most states for substance abuse. Evidently, you’re high, right now!
this is nonsense. anyone who knows anything about basketball would take livers over langford and it’s not even close.
Livers is a better basketball player than Langford. I should add...a much better player.
What makes you think that?
Langford was NOT a great defensive player and he took a lot of shots to get his 15 pt- i.e. not that efficient. I also prefer Tillman to Ward. Runs the floor better, plays better D, better clutch FT shooter. The loss hurts them more with respect to depth than as to a starting 5.
Mathews on the other hand has been described by Beilein (before his injury), as the best defensive player he has coached in 40 years.
Truth here. /\
MSU is a better team with Tillman on the floor. His athleticism, defense, and rebounding make up for Wards better post game. All they lose is bench depth.
MSUs injuries are not really hurting them.
Michigan might be better with Livers on the floor for that matter. Chucks defense is sorely missed and he can take over a game when he gets hot but he can also dig the O into a hole. Losing the depth and defensive flexibility is probably the most damaging.
I've settled in on how this year, in spite of the performance of MSU, has shown that Izzo isn't a great coach - he recruits well and simply puts the best players on the floor. Doesn't teach them to do anything besides play "tough" defense.
The injuries let Izzo fall ass backwards into a lineup produces a better TEAM. Which means, since he obviously didn't choose this lineup to begin with, he has no idea what players to play to get the best team performance. Just puts the best players out there.
I've settled in on how this year, in spite of the performance of UM, has shown that HARBAUGH isn't a great coach - he recruits well and simply puts the best players on the field.
Funny how quickly that narrative reverses when you switch sports.
Huh? This makes absolutely no sense. The dude was scoring 15 a game and providing great defense for them. Why does it matter when he gets hurt?
Would you be saying, if one of our main five guys got hurt at the beginning, "Ah, doesn't matter, he's not a starter?"
Because in the most Michigan State way ever, they talk about it for the rest of the year.
When you think back to the Michigan v. Kentucky game in 2014, do you remember it as "Mitch McGary was out that game." No, he simply did not factor into the discussion.
I can remember plenty of times throughout my existence as a Michigan basketball/football fan where injuries were brought up all the time. It's definitely part of the factor, and I honestly do not get mad about MSU fans talking about it, because that is a pot/kettle situation.
In basketball, injuries are magnified. And when your team loses 2 out of your 5 best players/starters, I do not blame ANY fan base for pointing towards that as a potential reason for concern.
I still think about Bass and what could have been :(
Not sure if serious
This makes 0 sense. If a starter gets hurt in the first game of the year, the team is down a starter for the rest of the year...
So just merely starting the first game of the year makes a player a full-time, permanent starter no matter what else occurs? That is absurd. What about a player that is sent to the bench? According to your thinking, that team is down a starter too. MSU and its coaches have plenty of talent and time to adjust to Langford no longer starting.
Come on man. You know better than this.
Langford was a two-year starter. He's not the 12th man on the bench that was inserted because someone got hurt. Everyone in the world who pays attention to college basketball knows Josh Langford is a starter in 2018-2019 and will get the bulk of the minutes at the 2. Just as we all know Simpson is the starting PG, and we knew that for an entire off-season. And heaven forbid, if Michigan lost Simpson in the first couple weeks, we would be massively disappointed. We wouldn't just say, "Ah, it's early enough, let Brooks/DDJ learn the role, we will be fine."
The time at which he got hurt does not change that fact it is a massive loss. This is not football where you can roll out replacements for a lot of positions. Losing your best two-guard, no matter when it happens, is a big loss.
No, we wouldn't say that "just let them learn the role, we will be fine." But at some point, we would just have stopped talking about them. By the end of the year in 2015, I was not talking or thinking about Caris Levert and Derrick Walton. We were just a team who was scrapping to make it to the NIT. I was not watching the games with a built-in asterick next to them in my mind.
Why does it bother you that much? I would never blame any fan base talking about what might have been had they stayed healthy.
I just think it's silly to argue about the timing of an injury. In basketball, especially college, there's a really large drop-off after 6 or 7.
Saying "He is not a starter," is silly. They lost someone from their starting 5. That's really all there is to it.
Because I am sick of hearing MSU excuses. In both football and basketball. I am tired of hearing that if they wouldn't have lost this guy or that guy things would be different. Now it has gotten to the point that they make excuses when they win. It takes away from the game.
I get what you’re saying, it’s an annoying, never-ending narrative that the media buys into, then reports on.
Maybe stop reading things about MSU and just be glad you’re a fan of far less insecure University and athletic program?
I, myself read the whining and excuses and laugh my ass off.
"I, myself read the whining and excuses and laugh my ass off."
As has every State fan on this thread.
true.
also true - john beilein would not be bringing it up in every press conference. if he was asked about it, he'd essentially say "next man up" and move on.
So they are better without key players or it doesnt matter or they actually dont have injuries or they do have injuries but we have equal injuries or there is a conspiracy in sports media about UM due to msu paying bribes, or?
Just win the damn game.
Hate to say it - but this Sparty team has twice the heart of last year's squad. Playing pretty well down Langford and Ward, and with Ahrens basically a non-entity.
With that being said, they have overplayed the McQuaid thing - he is moving just fine. And one bright spot - at least the injury story keeps that annoying whiny bitch Izzo from blaming the refs.
I hope we shove it right up their banged up ass at home. Go Blue!