Minor vs. McGuffie, recruiting

Submitted by IBleedMaizeNBlue on

If there was one bright spot in our loss to Penn State it was that Brandon Minor played extremely well in the first half. He ran with conviction, broke many tackles and repeatedly got to the second level for big gains. When he gained no yards he was visibly upset. I don't know about the rest of you wolverine fans, but I thought it was a welcome departure from McGuffie who shows promising vision and speed, but folds upon first contact. 

This was the first game where I thought we had a viable, consistent rushing attack (at least for the first half). You'll also notice that Threet carried the ball more as well, making the backside DE have to be more honest. So that also may have contributed to Minor's success. IMO we had more success with him in the first half than we've had all year with McGuffie running the ball. 

That being said, Minor is a big back. He's listed at 214 pounds. He's a bruiser. The top three rushers in the nation are all listed over 200 lbs (Ringer, Brown and Greene). None of our running back recruits breaks 185 lbs (heck, Vincent smith is 156!). Mike Hart is currently listed at 206. 

Though weight may seem like an arbitrary point and it gives no indication of the success of a back (look at Jacquizz Rodgers, for example), it becomes an issue when the back cannot absorb the hits. We don't appear to be recruiting bigger backs, despite the fact that it appears that, at least against a very good defense, our bigger backs were more productive.

Added experience on the offensive line would certainly reduce the amount of early hits a back would take, but the fact still remains that a good running back usually has a combination of size and speed. Though the spread is predicated on speed, you still need a solid, well built running back. Steve Slaton, RR's back at WVU, is currently listed over 200 lbs as well. He would flat run over people. Nobody would accuse McGuffie of that. 

As long as he holds onto the ball, I'd vote that Minor get the start for the rest of the year if he stays healthy. Feel free to disagree, I've just commented based on my observations from watching our offense stumble recently.   

 

gater

October 19th, 2008 at 6:06 PM ^

It seems like RR is recruiting running backs that could move to slot if we don't have room at running back.  Typically slot guys are not "bruisers", but 175lb guys that are a blur when tnhey run.  You know he doesn't ahve anything against solid running backs giving the fact that he brought in slaton.  I wouldn't be suprised if McGuffie is over 200lbs next season giving how hard he works out.  Most players bulk up between seasons and not during.  I think minor has the potential to be a great back, his problem is that he has been dropping the ball way too often.  He did a great job against PSU and if he keeps that up, he'll keep getting more and more carries

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 19th, 2008 at 6:20 PM ^

A lot of people have been calling for Minor to get more playing time and I am not sure that many people were opposed to it as long has he didn't fumble, which he has a tendency to do. He didn't fumble this game and the one play that stands out in my mind was when he was being tackled by 3 guys and you could see his other hand covering the ball. It finally seems like he is learning. I hope that this continues because having a power back to run up the middle and a speed back to hit the edge will give us a lot of versatility.

joeyb

October 19th, 2008 at 6:20 PM ^

A lot of people have been calling for Minor to get more playing time and I am not sure that many people were opposed to it as long has he didn't fumble, which he has a tendency to do. He didn't fumble this game and the one play that stands out in my mind was when he was being tackled by 3 guys and you could see his other hand covering the ball. It finally seems like he is learning. I hope that this continues because having a power back to run up the middle and a speed back to hit the edge will give us a lot of versatility.

Brewers Yost

October 19th, 2008 at 6:28 PM ^

McGuffie will put on weight in the off season. He should be able to get close to 200 without losing any speed.

 I would like to see us recruit a bruiser though. Mendenhall was great in the spread and was over 220.

k bizzle

October 19th, 2008 at 9:44 PM ^

Says he is 5'10 185 on rivals but dude looks huge. I would put money on the line he will play right around 200lbs. and guess what RR recruited him!?!?

Magnus

October 19th, 2008 at 9:53 PM ^

I'm not entirely sure why Rodriguez would recruit a bruiser.  On top of Minor and Grady, we have Mike Cox.  Out of 6 viable tailbacks on the roster right now, three are big backs and have at least one year of eligibility remaining.

NYWolverine

October 20th, 2008 at 10:54 AM ^

I had this very stat all lined up and ready to go as my meaningful contribution to the internet for the week and you ruined it for me.  Here's another interesting one:

Mike Hart (Rivals 3*) - 5'10", 175 lbs.

Interesting only in that a RB's HS height and weight is not a valid indicator of how he will perform in his first year in terms of yds/game.  Mike happened to have Stenavich (6'5" 318 lb Sr), Henige (6'4" 326 lb Sr.; Kraus backup), Bass (6'5" 323 lb 5th yr), Lentz (6'6" 300 lb Sr) and Long (6'7", 335 lb So.) blocking for him. 

How do you think Sam would do with those experienced hosses blocking for him?

maracle

October 19th, 2008 at 10:40 PM ^

I wonder how weight stacks up as a potential "fake" stat.  In Michigan's 2004 media guide he's listed at 194, his NFL combine weight was 195.  My guess is he wasn't 194 when he was a freshman.  I guess the question is, is McGuffie being reported accurately or inflated at 185?

Regardless, while weight is important I think this is also a learned skill and I'd be surprised if McGuffie isn't able to run through a hit more effectively later in his career.

gater

October 19th, 2008 at 10:46 PM ^

i wish 40 times were run in pads holding a football.  some guys get downright slow when they're put into that situation.  McGuffie seems like one, but i think he just runs very tenitivly while trying to pick his way through the line.  I guess i would have second thoughts with that line "clocking" for me too.

gater

October 20th, 2008 at 10:35 AM ^

no no no i said i think it's because he's tenative when picking through the line.  It may also have to do with the fact that he runs straight up, i thought steven jackson and adrian peterson looked slow when they ran too, but they turned out alright...

The Squid

October 19th, 2008 at 11:05 PM ^

I don't get it. McGuffie could possibly be a 1,000 yard rusher this season, and he's averaging  just a hair over 4 yards per carry. And he's a freshman on a Michigan team with the worst offensive line since the Cretaceous. I guess that I wish that he could vault tall building in a single bound and teleport past every guy on the other team wearing a number in the 50s, but realistically I'm darn pretty happy with his slow and tenative self.

Magnus

October 20th, 2008 at 8:12 AM ^

I agree.  If he's slow and tentative, then Rodriguez's first fast and aggressive back is going to gain 3,000 yards.  McGuffie doesn't break a ton of tackles, but Grady doesn't have good vision.  Every back has his negatives.  Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith didn't have breakaway speed.  Adrian Peterson is injury-prone.  Etc.  Etc.  McGuffie has been pretty good behind a crappy line.  He will get even better.  In two or three years, I suspect he'll receive Slaton-like hype, if not more.

tricks574

October 20th, 2008 at 1:27 PM ^

But someone actually conducted a study where football players ran 40's with and without a football, and on average they ran faster with the football. Study hypothesized something about carrying the football affecting them mentally, like, more adrenaline, or allowing them to relax and run smoother.

Magnus

October 20th, 2008 at 1:33 PM ^

If you're referring to what I remember, I don't know that the study was conclusive.  IIRC, it was fullback Jim Finn and one other player, and the "study" was done by a single inquisitive ESPN writer.  When your sample size is two players, you probably can't glean a whole lot from it.  Still...it's interesting.

Anonymous Coward (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 9:41 AM ^

Good post.  I've actually been worried about this myself.  I know Minor put the ball on the carpet way too much, but you have to remember, he is an insanely physical back that runs to contact.  A lot of those fumbles were him trying to do too much.

I really do like McGuffie, but I don't see him being anything like the type of back Minor is.  That doesn't mean he's not going to be a major part of the offense, but that's not what the original poster is talking about.  He's talking about a back with enough speed to be a threat, but enough power to make up for games where our offensive line isn't giving him a push or any seams.

I think it's crucial that Rodriguez continue to recruit the type of back that we've had here at Michigan.  If the plan is to get quick bunnies and put them "in space", RR will be changing that plan in a few years.

Huss

October 20th, 2008 at 12:01 PM ^

gater admitting he thinks Jackson and Peterson "look slow" and that dipshit magnus exclaiming that Barry lacked "breakway speed," this thread is particularly strong with the dumbassitude.

Magnus

October 20th, 2008 at 1:11 PM ^

I'm guessing the "dumbassitude" you're talking about is yours, since my statement was based on the fact that Sanders continually got run down from behind on long runs.

Hannibal.

October 20th, 2008 at 2:25 PM ^

Sanders, indeed, was not very fast.  His long long runs in the pros came from defenders selling out to stop him at the line of scrimmage later in his career.

chitownblue (not verified)

October 20th, 2008 at 2:30 PM ^

According to the NFL HOF website, Sanders, in college, was timed at 4.27 in the 40. When the Lions worked him out, he was 4.35. Either way - he was very fast. I swear to god, that if someone uses the term "football speed" to rebut this, I'm going to flip my shit.

Hannibal.

October 20th, 2008 at 2:37 PM ^

Well, I don't watch the game with a stopwatch, but like the previous poster said, Sanders was, indeed, run down from behind on a lot of his long runs.  I'm not knocking the guy, as he is my favorite pro football player of all time, and he had more of those long runs than anyone else in history.  But I do remember the guy getting a strangely large number of 60 or 70 yard non-TD runs where he would get caught at the 5 yard line. 

With that said, breakaway speed is an overrated stat for running backs IMHO.

hat

October 20th, 2008 at 5:55 PM ^

I don't get it. McGuffie could possibly be a 1,000 yard rusher this season, and he's averaging  just a hair over 4 yards per carry.

I like McGuffie and all, but even if he were to start again from here on out, I think he'd be hard-pressed to reach 800 yards, much less 1,000.  He has 460 yards in seven games, half of which came against two teams: ND, which inexplicably played a nickel most of the game against us (which we'll never see again), and Toledo, which is Toledo.      

McGuffie has great potential, but I don't think he's physically mature enough to be our featured back right now. 

The Squid

October 20th, 2008 at 6:00 PM ^

It's unlikely that McGuffie's going to reach 1K yards at this point, particularly after Brandon Minor came out of the PSU looking like the #1 back. Anyway, my point is just that McGuffie is a true freshman and he's had a pretty darn good season so far, so I don't get why anyone would bag on him at this point. Is he Adrian Peterson? No. Should you expect him to be Adrian Peterson? No.