WichitanWolverine

April 24th, 2016 at 11:39 AM ^

Jim Harbaugh better start winning big (beating OSU/MSU and winning B1G) or all his celebrity antics are going to get real old real quick. The fanbase will be less tolerant with losses because of his personality and way of doing things. Luckily, I think he will do just that.

WichitanWolverine

April 24th, 2016 at 11:49 AM ^

Agree to disagree. Brady Hoke got more time than he deserved because everyone thought he was a stand-up guy. RR on the other hand didn't get enough time because he was an "outsider."

Don't get me wrong...I think JH is a genius with what he's doing. I think he's going to start obliterating the rest of the conference, partly due to his celeb status (and recruiting). But he's playing with fire, because the blue hairs won't tolerate what he's doing if he loses.

Leaders And Best

April 24th, 2016 at 11:55 AM ^

Brady Hoke didn't even make 5 years & had only one losing season. You could make an argument that he got fired early, but you cannot make an argument that he got fired late and got more time than he deserved. No one is firing him after a 7-6 season in year 3, and that had nothing to do with insider or outsider.

People loved him after that 11-2 season but then got really tired of his shtick after he started losing games.

Leaders And Best

April 24th, 2016 at 12:04 PM ^

He lost more games because he won 11 games in his first season. Rich Rodriguez won more games each year because he fielded one of the worst teams in Michigan history in 2008. Rodriguez's best season in year 3 was 7-6 which matched the same record Brady Hoke had in year 3.

Rich Rodriguez went 15-22 overall and 6-18 in Big Ten play in his 3 years. Brady Hoke went 26-13 overall and 15-9 in Big Ten play in his first 3 years. Hoke won as many games in the Big Ten in his first year as Rodriguez won in his entire Michigan tenure. Just stop man. There is no comparison here.

WichitanWolverine

April 24th, 2016 at 12:10 PM ^

Wow. I'm not normally an RR defendant, but this is absurd. The cupboard was totally bare when RR got here (thanks partially to Carr suggesting for his qb to transfer). But he won more games each year. All Hoke did was lean on Denard's ability and success until he got hurt. After that, the wheels fell off. 

You're essentially saying that Hoke is a better head coach than Rodriguez. And that's insane to me.

Leaders And Best

April 24th, 2016 at 12:36 PM ^

Bill Belichick got fired by the Cleveland Browns. Good coaches can not work out.

Rodriguez's 3 years here were a disaster, and some of it was not his fault. He also didn't help himself out either. And Rich Rodriguez's problems had nothing to do with Mallett transferring. His achilles heel was the defense and always the defense. And the cupboard was not bare on defense when he took over. That 2008 team had Brandon Graham, Tim Jamison, Terrance Taylor, Morgan Trent, Stevie Brown, Jonas Mouton, and Donovan Warren. There was no reason that team should have lost to Toledo, Purdue or Illinois that year.

At the end of the day though, you are judged by your record, and his 3-year run was historically bad at Michigan. And it's not like he left the program in great shape and rebuilt the foundation at Michigan. His recruiting classes had extraordinarily high levels of attrition, and he left Michigan in APR hell.

Leaders And Best

April 24th, 2016 at 5:22 PM ^

Both guys made the NFL and played several years. Jonas Mouton was a 2nd round pick whose career was shortened by an ACL. Morgan Trent was a 6th round pick. I didn't say they were stars, but they would have started for most teams in the Big Ten. They weren't some scrubs. You have zero credibility if you believe they were.

This narrative that the cupboard was bare when Rodriguez took over is false. We lost a lot of offensive talent in Jake Long, Mike Hart, Henne, Manningham, & Arrington, and people focus only on that. We also returned 8 starters on defense in 2008, and a budding star who will always be underappreciated in Brandon Graham. The talent level had dropped off in the last couple Carr years, but it was a team that still should have finished .500 at worst. That season doomed Rodriguez, and it wasn't because he didn't have enough talent.

BigBlue02

April 24th, 2016 at 8:09 PM ^

Meh, returning one starter on offense, a sophomore offensive lineman, is not a recipe for success. It gets worse when Sheridan and Threet are your returning QBs and you have little to no talent replacing any other position. .500 is the ceiling for that team in my opinion. The defense being talented that year was offset by seniors giving up mid season. Wasn't Morgan Trent the one who was called out after he left as a guy who was doing things purposefully wrong because he disliked RichRod? That team was set up to fail, not succeed.

Goggles Paisano

April 24th, 2016 at 1:22 PM ^

Hoke vs. Rodriquez is like comparing a root canal to getting all four wisdom teeth pulled at the same time.  I don't see the relevance in arguing about which one is a better head coach when both are mediocre.  

I am so sick of hearing "the cupboard was bare" - there were plenty of good athletes on that team to beat Toldeo at home.     

WMU81

April 24th, 2016 at 4:47 PM ^

RR blows as a coach and I dot give two shits about how bare our cupboards were. Mallet stayin would have generated a cpl more wins. RR was determined to run his scheme even if he didn't have the players for it. RR was a mess as quit defending him with this Lloyd Carr left him out to dry crap. He sucked and frankly still does!! RR doesn't think defense is important it still continues in Zona.



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getsome

April 24th, 2016 at 12:51 PM ^

"you cannot make an argument that he got fired late and got more time than he deserved"

they shouldve moved on as soon as it became obvious he wasnt "the guy" to consistently beat his rivals and lift m back into championship contention.

most believe that became clear fairly early, especially considering his paycheck, resources on hand, all the cash and whatnot at stake, etc - and the expectation is for the position right?

hoke did not walk into a perfect situation and he did ok (and mightve done better given more time) - he won his first bowl game, he brought in some talent, seemed like a nice dude who the players respected, etc, but he was overmatched and failed in some key areas.  a nice dude and a solid DL coach but he shouldnt have been fired for such a gig in the first place.

if you honestly cant entertain argument that he got fired too late and got more time than earned then you must be the type to smile and whistle while waiting on hold with verizon (insert other conglomerate) and dealing with automated bs for hours

Leaders And Best

April 24th, 2016 at 1:39 PM ^

Make an argument to fire Brady Hoke after 2013 based only on the facts that we knew at that time. It is pretty hard to do. This is Michigan's F/+ ranking for his first 3 years:


2011: #7

2012: #25

2013: #37

There were warning signs and getting put on the hot seat after year 3, but you don't fire someone after that.

Leaders And Best

April 24th, 2016 at 1:28 PM ^

Based on his 3 year record at the end of 2013, there is no way you could fire Hoke especially coming off the last 3 years of Rodriguez. He had warning signs and was on the hot seat after 2013, but you don't fire a coach after one 7-6 season when the two prior years were relatively successful.

And his last year could not have been second worst in the last 49 years because it was better than 2 of the 3 Rodriguez years. And I am not making the case that he should not have been fired after 2014. What I am saying is that the argument to keep him after 2014 is much stronger than the argument to fire him after 2013.

FreddieMercuryHayes

April 24th, 2016 at 12:00 PM ^

Eh, people found Hoke's mannerisms annoying when he started losing more. Even the stuff people liked about him his first season, like the headset, became points of criticism. Personally, that's why I laugh at rival fan bases talking about how Harbaugh's behavior set expectations too high and he has deliver big, etc, etc...This is UM; he has to win big and expectations are always high anyway. His behavior has no bearing on anything in the end. He will still be judged by on field performance.



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