I'm going to be angry if it's 'Back to the Future.' My favorite movie in my favorite stadium. But not a season ticket holder.
So much hate for an optional, free night out with the family (or other guests of choosing) on the field of Michigan Stadium.
After weighing in all of your opinions, I believe this could be a solid opportunity for those who are dedicated enough to shell out a bunch of money for season tickets each season. Along with that, it could be cool for families who get slighted at fan day (like many others) simply because of the immense turn outs. Am I saying consolation? No... But I like the idea of rewarding fans.
"The Program" and Bo is the color commentator. He was much better than Millen ever was.
I guess I fail to see why this can, in any way, be construed as a bad thing. You are optionally getting more for the season tickets you've purchased.
not be Animal House, Director's Cut ? Maybe even a live reprisal of the 50 yard line deflowering scene.
W O W
I think it's cool. Same with fireworks because, I don't care. Let's not use the stadium for anything else but football. rabble rabble.
What's next hockey or soccer at the stadium?
See. This is how they get you. This is how they ruin it.
It's never one big thing.
It's death by a thousand, "Well, that does seem so bad. I don't understand why everyone's getting so upset about it..." papercuts.
First it's piped in music, next it's fireworks, then it's movie night, then it's adds just outside the stadium, then it's adds inside the stadium on occasion but not for football, then it's adds inside the stadium during football but it's a practice or spring game so it doesn't count.
Eventually it's Michigan Football: Presented by Arbys. Arbys: It might be food.
The Michigan Football Paywall, presented by Arbys.
Oh those poor engineers, managers, lawyers, and physicians that can afford season tickets are being victimized...booo hooo...fricken hoo.
How about DollarBill Brandon throw those of us not in the top 10% a bone once in awhile? You know like lower ticket prices, or opening this up to fans who have bought a season ticket in the past couple of years but can no longer afford it.
this event is yet another middle finger to those of us who have been priced out. I am remembering everything Dave does and I am speaking out with my wallet. I am buying tickets off the street or on stub hub. I am no longer donating to the athletic department, but to the school of education the department of biophysics.
Your point is well taken, but the Michigan Athletic Department has a PR problem right now with the fanbase in general and this latest promotion just underlines the impression for most that Brandon refuses to acknowledge it. Brandon shouldn't be trying to incentivize those fans still paying to be season ticket holders in a desperate attempt to hold onto them, he should be trying to entice disenfranchised / new fans to come into the fold. That's his job too, probably his most important job given that season ticket demand has gone from being a years long wait list to a surplus in just a few seasons.
I'm not saying a open-to-the-public Movie Night at Michigan Stadium would solve the problem; obviously it wouldn't, but it's symptomatic of the mindset within the Athletic Department that you only matter if you're supporting Michigan financially, otherwise you're expendable.
I believe the issue with filling the stadium will be resolved with the 2015 home schedule.
I believe that filling the stadium will be resolved for the 2014 home schedule. It will just be resolved by random fans picking up surplus tickets off of Stubhub for $6 a pop, which is not the business model we want to ensure the long-term financial health of the Michigan Athletic Department.
Michigan will probably not have much trouble packing 100K+ fans in week-to-week, but they won't be paying top dollar. The problem is that 1/3 fewer students opted to purchase season tickets this year. The problem is that the wait list for purchasing football season tickets has gone from a 5 or 6 year wait to a no year wait surplus in just the past few seasons. We're seeing signs that the demographic of the football attendee starting to shift away from the life-long season ticket-holder to the game-to-game purchaser, which should alarm Brandon, and yet all signs seem to suggest that it doesn't.
Want to make that bet? I won't be giving to Dave even with 2015's schedule.
Why the credibility problem? I think it's with a small part of the community, but very vocal on blogs and social media. I've said it before, but the vitriol of some of the claims does make it seem politically motivated to me (i.e. evil businessman Brandon offends liberal minded fans). And that just makes me vomit.
So what are the complaints?
Fired RR: had to be done
"The Process": taking 10 days or so to hire a HC doesn't seem outrageous
Scheduled App State: this doesn't bother me
Crappy 2014 home slate: happens to every school at times. Utah, PSU, MD are good games
At Sparty consecutively: every school had to give in that process, even UofM
Ads at the spring game: it was for god damn charity
Ads for other UM sports during games are still Ads (!): seriously
there was a noodle somewhere, someone took a photo: who gives a fuck
the rent is too damn high: yep, college football prices have gone up everywhere. It sucks
Rawk Muzak: Yeah that shit needs to go, and the band emphasized
I don't see the outrage. Maybe the problem is with those who keep saying they have a problem.
If I read it correctly, it looks like you're trying to belittle the issues folks have with Brandon as politically motivated. And that seems as much, if not more politically motivated than anything else I've seen from pro or con Brandon folks. There are plenty of conservative minded fans (both in the political sense and in a general "get off my lawn" sense) that are offended by Brandon's actions as AD. What's your motivation to put critics of Brandon into one political camp?
It is based solely on seeing the vitriol directed at Brandon over trivial matters, and not understanding how anyone could become so upset. Some justifiable disagrement or dislike, but the extremism goes way beyond the norm. Martin fucked everything up and he never met any of this type of hatred. Greedy/Money/Evil/Businessman Brandon is certainly a central part of much of the argument, and that in the context of many of the comments lead me to the political assumption. And those may not want to admit it, because everyone will vomit upon them, rightly so. It has no place in this discussion. Am I a hypocrite for raising it in the first place? I don't think so. I'm calling it out as a way to root it out of the board, if that's what's motivating some posters.
BTW, I know of few fans who are on the hate warpath re. Brandon. Most just want the team to win.
is inaccurate.
The Process = The Process of firing and hiring a new coach, or deciding to retain the current coach. To ensure recruiting (and thus the continued success of the program), Brandon needed to get behind RR or let RR go sooner. Instead it took Brandon over a month to pull the trigger, killing the 2011 recruiting class for Michigan. There was one reason to wait that long, and that was for Harbaugh. Harbaugh isn't the coach. The Process was a failure. It's funny that, for a guy that feels firing RR had to be done, you still support The Process.
Scheduling App State in a vacuum is fine; last time Michigan scheduled App State was in March/April 2007 to fill a hole in the schedule. This time around, Michigan scheduled App State 3 years in advance when there were additional slots in 2012 and 2013 to fill up. Rather than being a fill-in game like in 2007, the 2014 game is a grudge match. That is petty and goes against the Michigan brand of being leaders and best.
Crappy 2014 schedule: LOL at Utah being a good game; Maryland is a marginal game at best. Please find a marquis school like Michigan that had a home slate in the last decade that's anywhere near as bad as Michigan.
Prices increasing at Michigan would be fine if people are willing to pay for the higher prices, but the experience of attending Michigan games is getting worse WHILE prices are increasing. Now outside food and water can't be brought from home. Hydration stations are removed. UNIFORMZ. Advertising sold through Michigan stadium concourse. People being forced to pay more for seats they've kept for decades. Student seating changed to general admission that isn't actually general admission, screwing over those with built-up priority seating. All commercial timeouts are filled with advertisements for other Michigan-related events that most people attending the game don't care about. Rock music > MMB. Band not going to Dallas until donor ponies up funds for trip. Seat cushions are given away during spring game, then banned from the stadium 2 months later until fan backlash. All of these take away from the fan experience (some more than others), and night games are the only good change Brandon has made to the football experience.
But don't worry about any issues I have, for I have already made the decision to no longer attend games. Me, along with 1/3 of the students that attended last year, and enough season ticket holders to both make the wait list disappear and compel the athletic department to advertise more in an attempt to sell out the stadium.
If it was free, he'd come up with something to complaint about. The number of water bottles you could bring in. The size of the blanket you could bring in. The seating options. The price of concessions. The amount of gates that were open. That you weren't allowed to bring a football on to the field. There would be something. There's always something.
He thinks that the Wisconsin plan sounds like a great idea. There were still whiny ass badger fans complaining about it.
You think the season ticket holders that go are going to be given free popcorn, parking, drinks, etc.? I could be wrong but I'm guessing while entrance to the Big House is free, the associated items won't be - parking, concessions, etc.
Yes:
So you think it's a good idea, but dislike one aspect of it. Because look through the thread and see a lot of the anti-DB crowd are pissed off because it's ruining sacred ground, or gimmicky, or something even less tangible but they're pretty sure they hate Brandon. It's this process of grabbing anything done by the AD and demonizing it, by any means available, that's so stunning. It's very reminiscent of the current political environment, and that just makes everyone's eyes roll.
Are there people who grab anything by [the oppositione party] and demonize it any way possible?
ABSOLUTELY!
Should we pay attention to these people other than pointing from time to time that they just poison the discussion
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
In Michigan and in politics you should pretend those people don't exist. Especially on internet discussion boards, the tendency is to use them as the straw man for all opposition. Colter/Kos and the people who repeat what they say are useless people with invalid ideas. The WORST thing you could do is act like they represent the other side, because they don't. They represent the 33% of humanity who are fucking useless to a debate because they can't imagine any validity to someone who disagrees with them. We ignore Drew Sharp and Mike Valenti for this reason. Someone's gotta serve the dumbfucks. You shouldn't ever.
But you can't tell what's in anyone's heart. So treat everyone, even the dumbfucks, as if they aren't. Approach every debate with it stipulated that the person you're debating is coming from an earnest and well thought out position of his/her own, and only debate the best points, not the crappy ones.
So how to approach this thread:
Act like nobody's just anti-all-things-DB because that position is facially ignorant. Argue the points (It's not hallowed ground; it has a tractor buried in it and Seth threw up on it once. It is gimmicky but it's not gimmicky in place of the band on a football Saturday so who does it harm?) not where theyr'e coming from.
One aspect of it
My point is it's a crucial aspect of it that undoes the good with too much senseless bad. This movie night came right on the heels of Wisconsin's successful feel-good thing, and in copying it somebody said "but let's just limit it to the season ticket holders." Right now Michigan has a HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM with the part of its fanbase who've been priced out of being season ticket holders. It's going to piss them off to be excluded when there's a clear precedent that they shouldn't be. And the damage that will do is far greater than the pleasantness for season ticket holders.
From your points it seems the big thing I need to convince you of is that the PR problem with "REAL Michigan fans" (read: "poorer" Michigan fans) is a major problem. I think there's strong evidence, especially this year, that Michigan's support with a large segment of its fanbase has been undermined by the mercenary practices of the athletic department, and that this is ultimately bad for the school. We're not talking about equivalent 4-person families, one who chooses to spend $6 grand on season tickets and another who chooses to take the family to Europe for two weeks. The non-season-ticket holders are disproportionately young, and that makes them an important demographic to the future. They're also the group who'd most be interested in the novelty of a movie in the stadium (a greater number of bluehairs probably won't think it's worth the discomfort of sitting on a bench outdoors for that long). The students, the recent alumni, the working class non-alumni: these are important demographics to the support of a college football program, and they've been consistently shut out recently.
My interest in Michigan running smoothly is professional (I make my living from there being lots of Michigan fans) and personal (I am a HUGE Michigan fan). The latter is a shared interest with every Michigan fan. We don't want to sit in a half-empty stadium when the current students and young alums are the bluehairs. We all get a little upset when we see more Spartan gear in a store than the Michigan stuff. And we want our kids to get into this.
Think how awesome it would be for a young dad who was heartbroken when he couldn't renew his season tickets this year given the extravagent cost to see Appalachian State et al., but could still take his kids inside the stadium to watch a movie for free one day. Think of what happens a few years later when that family's deciding whether their new circumstances can afford them a Europe trip or a Michigan football game, and in the intervening years the kids did or didn't have this memory of the Big House.
It's a wasted opportunity. It's not a big deal by any stretch, but it's another pinprick in a very sore spot, and another good reason that Dave Brandon should be removed as far and fast as possible from this thing we love.
I love you, man.
Through much of your various commentary on this issue, I'm not sure you follow your own advice up there.
Sigh. If you believe this issue in any way should be support for a removal of the AD, we're just on different planets. Another reason why I see your vitriol and zealotry as driven by something other than the points of debate (i.e. the actions Brandon has taken).
He has quite clearly explained each of his points, and reasons why he feels as he does. He makes a pretty compelling argument. I can't see how you could actually (thoughtfully)read his last few responses on this issue and come back with what you just did.
I don't find the argument compelling. It's still left with condemning, damning, ridiculing, and villifying the AD for a series of tiny nothings that add up to one glob of nothing. And the fact that a movie night - such a harmless, harmless thing - is held up as something that should be considered other than nothing, supports my belief that something other than the actions of the AD spawn the hatred. Seriously, you would propose that this event - bringing in season ticket holders for a movie - is something that should in any way be used to support the removal of the AD? That just seems ludicrous.
The AD is not pricing fans out of the market. The popularity of college football is driving up prices, which is pricing fans out of the market. It is a problem, I agree. A problem Dave Brandon caused? Emphatically no.
I didn't have anything against the "movie night" idea, though I do think it would be much better if they made it a public event. Better for all involved. So, I wouldn't use that as a basis for any argument, other than to point out Brandons' general tone deaf-ness.
It's still left with condemning, damning, ridiculing, and villifying the AD for a series of tiny nothings that add up to one glob of nothing.
But it's not a whole lot of nothing. because there are obviously quite a number of people who hate all of these "tiny nothings" and the shift that they represent. You're not one of those people, but you aren't the spokesperson for the Michigan fanbase.
Also, I didn't neg you fwiw. I just disagree, pretty strongly.
I don't mind the negs, and I don't mind disagreement. And obviously you and I are way out of step.
Looked at another way... Seth actually believes this is a great idea. He talks passtionately about how great it will be for a father and son to attend. This will still happen. It is a brand new event in Ann Arbor, an innovation that's never happened before. People will benefit and enjoy themselves, it's not the root of evil that it will be season ticket holders. But despite the joy that will come from this event, Seth sees this as a net negative - as if it would be better if it had never happened. That's not logical, when he's already admitted it's a great event.
And let's not pretend all season ticket holders are walking around with silver goblets and ruby rings. Most of them are hard working people who love M football.
It continues to appear that every action Brandon takes is a Rorschash that many appear to morph into their preferred economic villain of choice. Movie Night is not an offense to the working class or football tradition or This Is Michigan. It's fun night. It's nothing. It's just a blob.
I think everyone uses themselves as a gauge of what's a "normal" level of wealth. People with the same annual household income as Brian can probably afford tickets every year though it means doing just one big vacation in addition to it. People with average income for this state make a lot less than that. Mortgages and car payments and food don't scale with earning power, meaning the poorer you are the bigger a difference a few thousand dollars will make.
I think it WOULD be a great event if they offered it to the public, but it's a shallow offering if they just keep it to season ticket holders. If I have a neighborhood cider pressing because everyone has apple trees in our used-to-be-an-orchard streets, and send everyone home with homemade apple cider and donuts, that's an awesome event. If I limit it only to people on the block who use my lawn guys, it's a conspicuous event that's nice for those who can attend but so mean to those who aren't invited that on the whole it's better for the neighborhood if it never happened.
With all things offensive, the party who gets to decide if it's offensive is the offended party, not the offender or an unaffiliated party. People are offended, therefore it is offensive. I think if the standard for a program of this size is to have it open to the public, then there's very good cause to wonder why Michigan went off the standard. I'm looking for other comparables. Virginia has theirs three times a year and it's public; so far Minnesota's the largest school other than Michigan to put a tag on it, and from what I can tell you could donate $5 at the door and get in, or not donate.
It's conspicuous, and there's no reason to disclude the public unless you're trying to send a message that ESPECIALLY appreciate a certain level of backer. Except Michigan has shown a bazillion times already how much they appreciate the people who give them large sums of money; they've done the worst job of any like program convincing the fans who can't speak so loudly with their limited wallets right now that they're appreciated too. You shouldn't act like their complaints are invalid, or brush them off as some unbased bias against Dave Brandon. The reason this half of the fanbase doesn't give Dave Brandon the benefit of the doubt is that he's been an utter asshole to them on so many occasions now that they expect it.
There are several ways to go with this argument, but I'll pick a few for relative brevity.
You keep making economic arguments, acting as it it's Dave Brandon's job to undo your view of wage injustice in the world. It's not. Prices in college football have gone up across the country. It's unfortunate (I don't want to sit with a bunch of rich assholes either), but it's silly to dismiss the fact that it's a systemic issue and instead blame it all on Brandon. I think you and other posters are lovers of debate, and wouldn't ignore this commanding piece of evidence unless something else was driving your conclusion.
What people find offensive they are allowed to find offensive. Of course, and others are allowed to question them. In the first place, what they are actually finding offensive, and in the second, their motives. If a large percentage of the anti-DB crowd are really just liberals trying to run a conservative out of town, that needs to be exposed and vomitted upon (just as if the reverse were true).
Shouldn't act like their complaints are invalid. Let me go back to the RR era, where about half the fan base hated the guy the moment he walked in the door, much of it having nothing to do with his actions. He was an outsider and viewed as hillbilly. This bias, totally unfounded and having nothing to do with his actions, needed to be challenged. Not many were willing to say "he's an outsider and I don't like the way he talks" becuase they'd get challenged, so instead the railing was against stupid things like offensive style or jersey numbers or some throw-away quote about Vince Lombardi. You , Brian, and this blog absolutely lampooned those people, taking each of their concerns, exposing them as nothing at all, and accusing them of their true motive. Thus the "Unacceptables' meme, and it was justified. You didn't seem concerned about dismissing the ideas of those people as having altervative motives, or believing their complaints were invalid. They did and they were. But it didn't stop the Unacceptables from attempting to take nearly every action RR took, demonize though sometimes laughable interpretation of motive, and present it as another pillar in the tower to bring the man down.
That's exactly what I believe you and others are doing with Brandon. You (not you specifially, but only insofar as at least some of your viewpoint matches much of the anti-DB crowd) didn't like him the moment he walked in the door for political reasons, didn't say much early because what could you say without being exposed as being politically motivated, waited for a few valid missteps, and now take nearly any action or decision and paint it the ugly color of your liking, and say "here, another brushstroke closer to the complete picure of why we need to dismiss Brandon."
It's the only way I can logically interpret your actions, given the vitriol over trivial matters, the latest example of which is Movie Night.
That's exactly what I believe you and others are doing with Brandon. You (not you specifially, but only insofar as at least some of your viewpoint matches much of the anti-DB crowd) didn't like him the moment he walked in the door for political reasons, didn't say much early because what could you say without being exposed as being politically motivated, waited for a few valid missteps, and now take nearly any action or decision and paint it the ugly color of your liking, and say "here, another brushstroke closer to the complete picure of why we need to dismiss Brandon."
It's the only way I can logically interpret your actions, given the vitriol over trivial matters, the latest example of which is Movie Night.
I can only speak for myself, but first off, I'm offended. I'm a generally conservative guy, and I absolutely can't stand DB. Zero political motivations whatsoever. I won't address any of that further (since a lot of that was targeted at Brian and Seth)than to say you're really, really fucking reaching there. Not to mention outright calling out peoples' integrity. Not cool. What's your motive?
Well your views are wrong.
It's not like I didn't explain above, why your views are wrong. You may be correct about some, but clearly not all (of Brandons' detractors). Anyhow, I'm making this my last comment on this topic.
The "political reasons" thing is an incorrect assumption. Most of what I knew from Dave Brandon before was I knew someone who worked closely with Domino's corporate while he was there, and was mostly related to how he dealt with co-workers and employees--not so much about people who buy pizzas. However the spot we started from was his handling of Stretchgate, which was exemplary. You're not speaking to somebody predisposed to hate DB; you're speaking to an apostate. We were his biggest supporters, until the overwhelming facts caused a slow but definitely stark conversion.
It's not just a rich/poor thing. The old guard who are allowed close to Brandon were the first to report smoke, which nobody believed for a year until it started accumulating.
So, no, it's not politics or predisposition powering the vitriol. But we can keep checking these boxes off until you believe me that Dave Brandon being an awful AD is the reason people keep saying he's an awful AD.