Michigan now offering free online courses/certificates to alumni

Submitted by ypsituckyboy on

Pretty cool move by UM to help its alumni be life time learners and continuously develop new skills. UM is now offering 91 online courses that have been developed by faculty/staff. They will be offered through edX and Coursera. 

Sure seems like this is the way education is moving in the future. Hopefully it makes it much more affordable and accessible to all.

http://record.umich.edu/articles/free-online-course-certification-extends-alumni

MichiganFan1984

August 9th, 2018 at 9:16 AM ^

K-12 educators are vastly underpaid. College professors are vastly overpaid. Fact. Also a fact a vast majority of college professors are advocates for free college education for all, but yet, I never hear them wanting to work for free or even take pay cuts to help with this. . What gives? 

unWavering

August 9th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^

Funny, I don't see you lining up to work for free either.

By the way, absolutely no one is arguing for 'free education for everyone.'  Some people may be arguing for socialized education, and there is a huge difference.

Not to mention, you bitching about professor's pay on a thread about UM offering free courses is quite rich.

MichiganFan1984

August 9th, 2018 at 9:50 AM ^

1. I’m not asking for more tax payer dollars to get more clients so I can maintain my paycheck or get a raise. 

2. Yes there’s a difference, but it still absolutely does not change the facts I stated regarding this. 

3. Not trying to be rich, just being real and direct. Sometimes I’m too direct, but I don’t like being fake. 

unWavering

August 9th, 2018 at 10:17 AM ^

You aren't being 'real' or 'direct,' so much as taking a lazy and uninformed stance on things.  For one, you don't seem to understand that professors' salaries have very little to do with how expensive universities are.  There are roughly 3,600 full-time instructional employees at UM, vs  27,595 employees overall. You do the math.

Cutting pay of the people who actually teach is just about the last thing you want to do.  Do you want to maintain a world-class educational facility?  Pay the people who actually make it happen.  

You're absolutely correct that K-12 teachers don't get enough money.  But let's not pretend that becoming a professor is the best path to becoming rich, either.

 

MichiganFan1984

August 9th, 2018 at 10:31 AM ^

It is a crime what k-12 educators are paid. For many kids these people are superheroes and the kids spend more time with and around their teachers than their parents. I didn’t have the best childhood and a teacher I had in High school literally saved my life by his words and direction. I found out he made less than 35k..sad. Meanwhile college professors didn’t know my name or care to know my name, just spouted there philosophical bs and had 0 impact on my life and were making triple figures.

While I may have been a little inaccurate with my statement, that they aren’t the cause, my point stands the same I don’t appreciate triple figure making professors spewing there righteousness to me. 

unWavering

August 9th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^

I don't really know what to tell you.  Sorry you didn't like your professors?  I don't think that should mean that they should take a pay cut when they aren't the real problem behind why tuition costs so much.

I liked quite a few of mine.

Naked Bootlegger

August 9th, 2018 at 11:45 AM ^

Are you seriously shitting me?    Just take 60 seconds to explore the amazing research spearheaded by UM faculty.   Society has benefitted.  IMMENSELY.   And you want to know what what's more amazing?   Societally beneficial teaching and research continues to be performed despite perpetual cutbacks in state and federal aid.   

I'm proud of you for developing your client pool without any government aid.   You are a true hero.  But please know that university professors are also societal heroes for devoting their lives to teaching, research, and service.

 

MGoStretch

August 9th, 2018 at 11:39 AM ^

You were not "a little" inaccurate, you were entirely inaccurate and have made multiple posts just digging in to your opinions that were presented as facts. On top of that, you seem to be conflating two different arguments.  Just because elementary school teachers are underpaid (they are) does not mean professors are overpaid. I'm sorry you had mean professors who were driven home to their mansions in gold Rolls Royces.

MGoStretch

August 9th, 2018 at 11:52 AM ^

Ok. The guy who claims as a "fact" that professors are overpaid with zero evidence except that his intro psych professor didn't know his name is now lecturing that everything isn't black and white.

Do you recall that overpaid psych professor discussing the term "projecting"?

taut

August 9th, 2018 at 5:16 PM ^

Gotta disagree with you on the pay of K-12 teachers and of professors. Professors have to rise through a very competitive landscape to get to where they are. They're usually pretty competent and expert in their fields (discounting the occasional whack-job that gets press for their stupid political ideas). The ones that make the big bucks tend to be in top level business or medical schools. Your assistant profs or lecturers in say, English, aren't making bank.

In the state of Michigan however, K-12 teachers generally are doing pretty well. Despite our educational results plummeting toward the bottom of the list of 50 states, our teachers have the 11th highest pay in the nation. More importantly, the 10 states above us have much higher costs-of-living, e.g. California, NY, Mass, NJ, etc. When adjusted for cost-of-living, Michigan teacher salaries are #1 in the nation. #1. And our results, frankly, suck.

That "underpaid teacher" meme has been promoted for decades and isn't true in Michigan except in the worst districts. And having known a few of those teachers, they're probably paid on par with their ability, but they just suck. It's circular, of course, the lowest-paying districts tend to have to settle for some well-below-average performers.

ypsituckyboy

August 9th, 2018 at 9:42 AM ^

From everything I've read, the increase in costs is more due to the ballooning of administrative and back office staff (all those people with titles that are more than 4 words), not the actual professors. Every school needs professors and people like a Dean of Students. It's debatable whether we multiple versions of "Assistant Dean of Blahh de Blah Blah Blah" in every single department.

atticusb

August 9th, 2018 at 10:07 AM ^

This, a million times over.  I'm a professor at an R1 state flagship university, and the administrative bloat is mind blowing. Not to mention the fact that it's about 10x easier to fire a tenured professor than it is to fire even the lowest level staff member/administrator... Based on our budget alone, I would peg 90% of the cost increases in higher ed over the past decade plus as due to exploding growth in administration and internal ass-covering via regulation and regulators.  For an athletic department equivalent, IIRC there was a post on here a month or so ago about how the athletic department budget at UM has doubled or something in the past 10 years while the number of athletes/scholarship costs have barely changed.

Bando Calrissian

August 9th, 2018 at 1:42 PM ^

Maybe take this is as a hint that you're woefully out of your league with this barrage of hot takes on the economics of higher education.

If anything, salaries for instructors at Michigan and peer institutions have never been lower. Ever heard of contingent faculty? Those are the people universities are hiring for pennies on the dollar, with no job security and little, if any benefits, so they don't have to hire full-time professors. These are people who hold the same qualifications and pedigree as their full-time colleagues, yet are often forced to work multiple jobs, and often apply for things like public assistance because universities with multi-billion dollar endowments won't hire them as full-time employees at a livable wage.

Everyone wants their kid to go to college, but damn if they give a crap about the livelihoods of the people who teach them once they get there.

In other words, GTFO with these takes.

J.

August 9th, 2018 at 11:28 AM ^

Most people get the cause and effect of higher education pricing backwards.  College isn't expensive because costs are high.  Costs are high because college is expensive.

College is expensive because of the high value our society places upon a college degree -- your life options are quite limited without one.  The market prices a college education accordingly.  This bothers people, in general, because, as a society, we've decided we want education to be available to people of all means -- so we add government subsidies.  However, as any economist can tell you, the primary effect of a demand-side subsidy is higher (retail) prices; if the market decides that a widget is worth $50, and the government decides to provide a $40 subsidy per widget to make it more affordable, the price will eventually rise to $90, where supply and demand will meet once again.

Because colleges are nonprofits, they have to spend this money somehow; hence, large administrative staves.  Furthermore, there's a perverse incentive -- the more that they can spend, the more they can cry poverty and appeal for additional government subsidies.

If your entire goal were to cut the price of higher education, the most effective approach would be to eliminate all federal student aid and to apply a punitive tax on student loans and scholarships -- just as the most effective way to cut the price of health care would be to outlaw Medicare, Medicaid, and all private insurance.  However, these would have immense social costs, and so they're not practical options -- at the end of the day, the most effective isn't necessarily the best.

The second-most-effective way to cut the price of higher education would be to increase the number of jobs in the workforce that don't require college, or to fund competing educational options (vocational training, etc.).  Either of these will drive down the demand for college, and thus will drive down its price.

The longer that we continue to position college as an absolute requirement for a successful future, the longer its price will rise.

Markley Mojo

August 9th, 2018 at 10:04 AM ^

"Fact." I work as an adjunct as a hobby, because there is no f-in way I'd want to live on that as a salary. There is inequality within the pay of faculty, so people can cherry-pick the salaries of tenured full professors at Ross, but to say as a group that "college professors" are vastly overpaid is wrong.

When I learned what (full tenure) accounting professors make, I thought, "That's a lot of money." Then I learned what they could make if they left their positions and returned to industry, and thought "Okay, THAT's a lot of money."

The majority of faculty could make more money doing something else with the skills they've acquired, but are in academia to research well or teach well (and for a blessed few, both).

 

jakerblue

August 9th, 2018 at 10:59 AM ^

was going to make similar comments.

The knowledge and skills a college professor need are much higher than that of a k-12 teacher.

To have the quality of college professors that a school like Michigan needs their salary needs to be at a point where they are willing to forgo the probably much higher paying industry jobs and teach.

MichiganFan1984

August 9th, 2018 at 11:06 AM ^

Lol. Knowledge and skills that can be learned by Reading..On Your Own in many cases. Yes professors have to be smart at their craft and are definitely leading the way in important things for humanity, but It is way harder to teach k-12. People skills and youth development are vastly underrated. It’s actually really sad. 

EGD

August 9th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^

I agree this is true in many fields.  But you are overlooking the importance of credentials in the modern job market.  As has been pointed out above, if you want a decent job these days, you almost certainly need a bachelor's degree and there's a good chance you need a post-graduate degree as well.  Can you still read and study things for your own personal enrichment and learn a comparable amount?  Often, yes you can--though often you cannot.  But even when you can, independent study outside a degree program is not going to produce a credential that will enable you to compete for employment in that field.  That's especially true in licensed professions like law or medicine--if you don't have the degree, you can't get the license, no matter how much independent learning you may have done.

Given the importance of such credentials in the 21st century job market, promoting opportunity and upward mobility requires that we ensure broad access to those credentials.  We provide public funding for K-12 education because in the past, a high school diploma was an adequate credential for most purposes--as well as the extensive benefits an educated populace provides in an industrial democracy.  But times have changed.  A college degree now is the approximate equivalent to what a high school diploma once was.  So the argument for publicly-funded college education (or "free college," as you have deemed it) is that requiring students to pay ungodly amounts of tuition for the basic credential needed to secure decent employment in the modern economy stifles upward mobility and denies economic opportunities to working-class and indeed many middle-class young people.  You can agree or disagree with that argument if you want, but it's far from a frivolous position and at any rate is not vulnerable to any claim that "well you can just read shit on your own."

Wendyk5

August 9th, 2018 at 1:23 PM ^

We have acquaintances who are both professors, first at Northwestern and now at University of Chicago. The husband was a bigwig at the business school, and his salary was published in Chicago magazine at least ten years ago. At that time, he was making $675,000.00 a year. His position was underwritten by a large corporation (maybe Ford?) so that's possibly why he made so much? Not exactly a question you ask someone who isn't your immediate family. But crap, that is a ton of dough. 

MGoStretch

August 9th, 2018 at 10:13 AM ^

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "fact"?  And why did you place that word following an opinion?  

Here's a quick read, sorry, I have no idea how to imbed on the new board:

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/16/why-college-costs-are-so-high-and-rising.html

 

If you just want the highlights:

     Meanwhile, teaching salaries, one of the biggest single line items, have remained relatively flat much like those across most of the U.S. labor market. Despite heavy spending by a handful of top universities for the most talented, grant-winning researchers, most schools aren't seeing big wage pressures, largely because teaching jobs are in high demand. 

"Overall, the aggregate level that institutions are spending on teaching and student-related services has been pretty much stable for the past 15 to 20 years, adjusted for inflation" said Franke, of the University of Massachusetts in Boston.

Mr Miggle

August 9th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^

"Also a fact a vast majority of college professors are advocates for free college education for all, but yet, I never hear them wanting to work for free or even take pay cuts to help with this."

I'm far from convinced this is a fact, but it's a terrible take either way. Once employees start offering to take pay cuts for one purpose, they're going to be expected to take them for others. You never acknowledge that you'd be happy working for less. Working for free is just a ridiculous expectation.

Put an actual deal on the table for free education that goes into effect if educators agree to take pay cuts. That would be the test of whether they're willing. 

zeroskie

August 9th, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^

This is an arrogantly uninformed statement. There are many professions you could accuse of being overpaid. CEOs, sales representatives, consultants for example, but all educators are underpaid compared to their value to society and that includes college professors. What beef do you have with them anyways? I sure learned a lot more in college than I did from K-12.

And as far as your premise that K-12 educators are VASTLY underpaid. Here's a breakdown that shows a high school teacher makes as much (technically a bit more) on average than your family doctor:

The Deceptive Salary of Doctors

Arb lover

August 9th, 2018 at 11:28 AM ^

I agree that teaching the next generation is a noble profession, but a job that allows you to be at $70k/9months after five years with just a BA from most any college anywhere (and a teaching certificate) is more money than tons of hard working college grads (from these same colleges ) make in 12 months working 50 hr a week as hr professionals, office administrators, accountants, sales managers, etc., ...without nearly the same level of job protection and without a pension after 20 years. That pension is deceptively not factored in to most political statements on teacher earnings. I know teachers who have retired at 42. 

You talk about value to society, but you are then saying public service employees are all worth more when in fact especially at high achivement and educational levels, they are more underpaid vs regular industry. Gov lawyers, securities regulators, gov executives with phds/mbas, auditors, FDA scientists, etc can get 40-60% more in salary private sector. They do it for noble causes. If you pay them higher than private industry based on " value to society", who would want to be anything but.

MichiganFan1984

August 9th, 2018 at 11:46 AM ^

Many inaccuracies. Teachers do not make 70 k unless in a good district and over 15 years of teaching. Teachers also don’t get 3 months off, that’s a myth. They get about 6 weeks when it’s all said and done.... that’s not enough time to make 15k lol. 

wildbackdunesman

August 9th, 2018 at 11:31 AM ^

The average professor in the state of Michigan makes $62,964 a year, which is in line with the national average.  The average professor at the University of Michigan makes $136,876 with $27,500 in benefits.  That isn't particularly outrageous considering that the majority have earned a PhD and in theory are an expert at something and conduct research.

Link

 

MichiganFan1984

August 9th, 2018 at 10:57 AM ^

That could happen, but like I said above, I don’t really think professors benefit our society compared to what k-12teachers do. So if they want to move along, I don’t think it hurts anyone. Sadly, I guarantee they would move along because most of them don’t give a damn about the students. They want the paycheck and prestige. Go to an inner city middle school and you will see some teachers making under 40k a year and actually trying to help people. Most college professors wouldn’t last a day in the schools I went to growing up. They would run and change jobs in a minute. 

atom evolootion

August 9th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^

I'm an adjunct at the University of South Carolina Upstate. One class per semester gets me about $2500 to teach twenty-one students on average. I'm only paid for ten hours a week, but the preparation, actual teaching, office hours, wrestling with the essays of students who arrived at the college level under-taught and under-prepared by my K-12 counterparts (who are so much better at what they do than I am, you say) runs me up over twenty hours, because I give a damn. I want my students to be able to excel in life, first, and then class, so I love them through the teaching. I love them through thoughtful criticism, through recommendations for the writing center and for jobs and graduate schools (because they definitely return to ask for kind words on their behalf), and sometimes through failure. As an adjunct on a full-time level, I'd only hope to get to $20000 a year, but I'd have to work a hundred hours a week to get there. At USC Upstate, an assistant professor can get me about $40000 at the start and not much more than that in the following years. We're not paid as well as you think, and certainly not as well as the professors at Michigan are, and they're not Scrooge McDucking it, either, for the most part. Most of us also don't teach for the money and prestige, because we typically don't receive that. I work with a bunch of low-level award winners and learned from a bunch of low-level award winners when I went to graduate school at Clemson. We research because we want to know, we write because we want to document what we've found, and we teach because we want the future of the world to carry the baton.

Go Blue.

Mr Miggle

August 9th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^

No one is disparaging K-12 teachers or arguing about whether they should be paid more. Being a K-12 public school teacher and a university professor have some things in common, but they are much different professions.

Teachers definitely have a harder job in some respects. Teaching kids who don't want to be there or who want to learn but face serious obstacles can be a big part of the job. Maybe they become part teacher, part social worker. A friend of mine teaches special ed. He didn't start there, but saw the need and got the extra training.

I know professors that teach one or two classes. They are primarily researchers. Those are often the higher paying jobs. If you are a professor at Michigan, you had to earn a doctorate. That's a lot of extra time and money spent before earning your salary. You're going to be valued more for your expertise, getting your work published and bringing in grants, than your ability to connect with your lecture students.

If you want to teach at a college where you are just asked to teach, your pay is going to be a lot less. 

 

 

 

CJW3

August 9th, 2018 at 9:55 AM ^

This is a seriously idiotic take. Professors aren't making crazy salaries, it's the bloated administrative staffs that are sucking up all the new tuition money. 

Also, how tf do you think socialized education means profs should work for free?