McElwain Impact on WRs
Seeing the offense struggle, the positions that have really suffered the most each year under Harbaugh have been the QB, WR, and OL. Needless to say, poor performance has led to high turnover in coaches and players alike. One coach I never thought I'd say we may miss the most in Jim McElwain.
The guy developed and worked with our receivers last year. We had zero dropped balls, fumbles, they blocked well, and each receiver really developed as the year went on. I'm wondering if there has been a drop off on WR coaching. Say what you want about "Speed in Space" play calling, but our receivers look like they've regressed after really developing nicely from the previous year.
Can anyone on this board with better insight relay how hard is coaching transitions for each position group, and opinions on former UM coach McElwain. All in all, I actually though Jim was a good position coach and seeing CMU not be a dumpster fire thus far is not half bad for him.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:07 PM ^
I have no clue. Only here for the shark jokes.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:49 PM ^
User name checks out
October 6th, 2019 at 10:08 PM ^
he was tenacious as a coach, even frenzied. smelled blood in the water and attacked. we don't have that predator-instinct in the coaching room anymore. just a bunch of guppies out there.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:09 PM ^
BTW also miss him for the shark jokes, thanks for reminding me about those!
October 6th, 2019 at 10:10 PM ^
He banged a shark
Makes him cool in my book
October 6th, 2019 at 11:44 PM ^
Sure. Now. Back in my day it wasn't even cool when Fonzie jumped a shark. Now THIS???
October 7th, 2019 at 5:38 AM ^
well. there's jump and then there's jump, if you know what he means.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:14 PM ^
The only reason this isn't laughable is because Gattis is a first time coordinator. He has an established reputation as a really good WR coach. But it's possible that being a coordinator in addition to being a WR coach has caused confusion and problems with the WRs as well. Even OSU fans, who liked Warriner as an OL coach, saw a major drop off once he became an OC as well.
October 7th, 2019 at 4:47 AM ^
Peter Principle?
October 7th, 2019 at 8:36 AM ^
If that's true he should step down. To much is depending on coaches being ready for the job. On the job training might keep a couple of these players from getting to the pros. It looks like 3 offensive linemen are going to be drafted, not just 1. If that happens it will be because they had Ed Warinner coaching them. It's not just for the sake of winning that there needs to be experienced coaches who are ready for the job, but also for the sake of the players, so there is an increased chance they'll get to the pros.
As it is now, watching how the WRs are being used, it wouldn't surprise me to see AJ Henning de-commit somewhere down the road. And I wouldn't blame him. He can to any one of a very impressive offer sheet, to a team that will use him much more productively, and train him at a higher level:
October 6th, 2019 at 10:15 PM ^
There really is a take for everything.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:18 PM ^
I have it on good authority that McDaniels hates sharks.
October 7th, 2019 at 2:36 AM ^
There is a fine line...and it begins with an Mc.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:19 PM ^
The guy developed and worked with our receivers last year. We had zero dropped balls
He seemed to do a good job but that isn't true.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:36 PM ^
He may have read that Nico Collins had no drops last year, and thought it was all Michigan receivers. But, Donovan Peoples-Jones had a very low drop rate.
It's clear Jim McElwain was a great influence on them. Here's to hoping somehow Jim McElwain leaves Central and ends up as OC here next year.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:49 PM ^
My bad, thanks for showing this. Clearly we had dropped balls last year, but our outside receivers were more sharp. Collins was money last year as well as DPJ.
October 7th, 2019 at 9:04 AM ^
McKeon and Zentry had a number of pivotal drops last year but they were TEs. The WRs had a super low number of throws.
Remember Braylon Edwards? Remember the 3 OT MSU game? I can't believe I took that for granted.
October 7th, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
Memory has a way of glorifying things. Pretty sure that Braylon had a few drops in his career. Even in the 3 OT MSU game, I think he had a drop or two early in that contest before he caught fire. His early drops where part of the reason the epic comeback was needed.
October 7th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
Was there an /s that i missed?
You really want mcelwain as oc?
You have officially jumped the shark!
He seemed to be a fine wr coach, but go look at the offenses he ran at alabama as oc or colorado st and florida as hc. They were all dinosaur manball outfits that we are working to transition away from.
At bama and csu he depended on having more talent (remember the bama transfers on that csu team?) And at florida he got exposed just like michigan has been when facing teams with similar talent.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:19 PM ^
The offense struggling is not personnel related. It is totally scheme related. This QB and our big body WRs don't really fit the Gattis offense. Josh and Jim are going to need adaptation. Good coaches fit this stuff into a winning team. Let's go !
October 7th, 2019 at 2:55 AM ^
I disagree. Guys are getting open. Shea is making poor reads.
October 7th, 2019 at 7:51 AM ^
It's hard to say what is actually going wrong five games in. I mean it's only been five games and we've so far seen turnovers, injuries, poor qb play, inexplicably bad o-line play, and questionable scheme/playcalling all factor in at different times and in different combinations that have all led to an offense that is in danger of falling out of the top 100 in efficiency, behind the directional Michigan schools, and just a spot or two ahead of Kansas.
Adaptation is the bare minimum of what we need. I'm hopeful but not optimistic we'll see this get sorted out this year.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:23 PM ^
Gattis as a WR coach > McElwain as a WR coach.
That being said, Gattis having OC duties very well might be limiting his impact on the WRs. That ALSO being said, the WRs aren't exactly getting blanketed 1 on 1 every play and the nature of this type of offense doesn't have WRs in the box blocking LBs nearly as much as the old offense. They're out on the edges with CBs who never really come into play.
I'll get nuked for this, but I'd take Pep's shitty 2 man route offense from last year with Gattis coaching the WRs and a downhill running offense behind a Warriner line over what we've seen this year.
Not saying 2 man max protect routes and running in a phone booth are great by any means. But, he made Patterson throw the god damn ball to 1 of those 2 guys more often than he is this year and even if there were no big runs, they could bash their way to 4 YPC against most anyone at a glacial pace.
I'm going to bed so I'll see everyone's evisceration of my thoughts in the AM. Please, be kind to my mother, the jokes hurt. Send me to Bolivia.
October 7th, 2019 at 2:05 AM ^
Not sure that this is a controversial take. There's no doubt that as of right now this year's offense is worse than last year.
October 7th, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
Gattis as a WR coach > McElwain as a WR coach.
You sure? I am not.
October 7th, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
Gattis was WR coach at Vanderbilt with Jordan Matthews and at PSU when they had an onslaught of guys who were nothing crazy before they got there and the WR corps looked real bad last year after he departed.
McElwain was a WR coach back in the early 2000s but nothing can be specifically attributed to him in recent memory as he moved away from that to OC and HC roles.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:27 PM ^
Alabama fans didn't want him to leave when he was the Offensive Coordinator there.
In 2009, McElwain's offense helped lead the Crimson Tide to a 12–0 regular season record. The team went on to defeat the top-ranked team in the country, the Florida Gators, in the 2009 SEC Championship Game. There his offense dominated the Gators number one defense in the country and compiled 490 yards of offense, more than twice the yards the Gators defense had averaged giving up all year. McElwain's offense outrushed the Gators' offense 251 yards to 88 yards, 63 of those yards coming from the 2007 Heisman winner Tim Tebow. His offense put up 32 points and held on to the ball for 39 minutes and 37 seconds, almost twice the Gators total of 20 minutes and 23 seconds. Alabama went on to beat the Texas Longhorns in the 2010 BCS National Championship Game. In 2011, the Crimson Tide finished the season with a 12–1 record, and beat the LSU Tigers 21–0 in the 2012 BCS National Championship Game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McElwain#University_of_Alabama
I wished he was going to stay on here and take over as the Offensive Coordinator this year. But, I knew it wouldn't happen. Who knows, maybe he can still end up as OC here some day.
BTW, he was one of Jim Harbaugh's great hires. :-)
October 7th, 2019 at 10:06 AM ^
To think that people thought EC was a yoder account.
Its been jim mcelwain all the time!
This feels like the end of the usual suspects.
October 7th, 2019 at 10:32 AM ^
FWIW, Nussmeier was also once Alabama's OC. Poaching Alabama's coaches for OC hasn't worked very well for us, because Alabama's recruiting can make any coach look good.
Rather than look around the top where talent can muddy the waters, I would prefer they dig through some chaff. They found Don Brown because he made a career of turning New England recruits into elite defenses; that translated well overall. But when it comes to offense, if not Alabama, Harbaugh's been looking at the NFL.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
October 7th, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
That could be made more generally applicable. When in doubt blame it on the starting qb.
October 6th, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
Glad to see this place didn’t completely jump the shark after the Wisconsin game and has returned to normal/good threads.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:02 PM ^
Why can't teams pillage osu like they do UM? every damn year we lose a good coach... wtf.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:15 PM ^
You mean like when they lost their national champion head coach? How about when they lost their other national champion head coach. Sabans staff gets poached all the time, somehow he survives. I’m afraid you can rotate whomever you want at our various coaching positions but as long as Harbaugh is head coach, there’s no evidence to expect any cultural change.
October 7th, 2019 at 6:17 AM ^
What has Clemson lost? Day was a coach in waiting who benefits from Mattison and Kevin Wilson... Bama gets 5 star recruits daily so any type of coaching received they will be a top 3 team...
We lost a lot of coaching and player power from last year and people don't bat an eye at that.
Get real.
October 7th, 2019 at 9:06 AM ^
I don't think 99% of commenters on here even know who Kevin Wilson is. I wanted Michigan to hire him as OC after he was let go by Indiana. But then later I read Ohio St had been talking to him ahead of time.
And I agree about Greg Mattison. There's a night a day difference in Ohio Sts defense from last year. Michigan was #1 in defense last year, Ohio St #68. As it stands now, Ohio St is at #3, Michigan at #18. Though, if I remember right, Michigan's defense was at #38 two weeks ago.
2018
2019
October 7th, 2019 at 9:07 AM ^
Losing a national championship head coach due to corruption doesn't qualify as being pillaged.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:04 PM ^
Relaying my opinion on former UM coach McElwain:
October 7th, 2019 at 7:21 AM ^
That ain't gas he's dispensing. The fish converging on whatever that is is creepy.
October 7th, 2019 at 9:59 AM ^
Shark shart.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:05 PM ^
It's hard to stay focused and motivated when you're not getting the ball when you're wIde open.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:20 PM ^
We were never going to keep him long. Glad our receivers could soak up some good coaching while they could.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:34 PM ^
It's not the receivers. It's literally everything other than the receivers.
October 7th, 2019 at 12:45 AM ^
I've noticed our WRs standing in one place a lot once their routes were finished. I know I only see a limited sampling with the camera angles, but I don't remember seeing that last year. I can't imagine there's a system out there that encourages standing in place, especially not one that touts speed in space as a mantra. It seems like our WRs are giving up on plays they didn't give up on last year. Also, has this bled over into runblocking from WRs?
I don't think the WRs are even close to the biggest issue with our offense. The offense, as a whole, seems disoriented. It's like seeing an irregular EEG. All the neurons are there; they just aren't firing properly.
October 7th, 2019 at 10:38 AM ^
I can't imagine there's a system out there that encourages standing in place, especially not one that touts speed in space as a mantra. It seems like our WRs are giving up on plays they didn't give up on last year.
The speculation is that this is supposed to be a West Coast style passing offense where the ball's supposed to be out quickly. Shea's been consistently late on his reads, but Gattis hadn't scripted his plays to account for it, so when the WRs finish their routes and the ball's still not out, they don't know where to go. Then Gattis yells at them if they start to improvise.
I'm starting to think this was a disastrous hire.
October 7th, 2019 at 4:14 AM ^
It would be interesting to hear Assistant Coach Roy Roundtree, the man who made one of the most famous TD catches in Michigan Wolverines football history, discuss the problems with the wide receivers this season.
October 7th, 2019 at 4:24 AM ^
Its kinda funny how last years offense went from being ripped so much that Harbaugh felt obliged to can a long time collaborator and friend to put in a new offense to being seen as the good old days over the course of less than half a season.
The way I see it we were a 6/10 offense that got “upgraded” to a 2/10 offense because any change was thought to be better than 6/10. Irony there is that many of the same fans begging for that then now think that any change has to be better than being stuck with 8-10 win Harbaugh.
October 7th, 2019 at 7:01 AM ^
If there's one thing I'm 100% sure of, it's that us whiny fans had 0% to do with Harbaugh deciding to replace Pep.
October 7th, 2019 at 7:51 AM ^
If fans talk about it as a group, media people talk about it, staff talk about it, boosters talk about it. All of that stuff adds up to what you may consider “pressure”. These things dont go unnoticed. I don't think Carr retires in 2007 if the public had been cool with what happened vs Oregon, App St and finally OSU. A coach can ignore it for a while, but its too impactful in college football where public mood around a program can affect recruiting a lot.
October 7th, 2019 at 8:21 AM ^
I think it thankfully had everything to do with how he felt about it.