Frank Chuck

March 26th, 2017 at 7:40 PM ^

Caris LeVert was also going to be redshirted but he improved at a crazy rate over his freshman year and played some important minutes for us in the NCAAT. Watson is from LeVert's HS and needed the redshirt but Beilein chose to play him...

/shrug

I think Poole will either get spot minutes or be redshirted. We'll have crazy depth next year. We might legitimately roll 12 deep next year but I expect Beilein to cut that down to a rotation of 9-10 players. The 2013 National Runner-Up team was 9-10 deep. Bielfeldt was the 10th guy after LeVert and Albrecht emerged as players.

PG: Xavier Simpson / Eli Brooks

SG: MAAR / Jordan Poole

SF: Charles Matthews / Duncan Robinsion / Ibi Watson

PF: DJ Wilson / Isaiah Livers

C: Moritz Wagner / Jon Teske / Austin Davis

 

Some of those positions are flexible so we can go big or small.

bacon1431

March 26th, 2017 at 7:52 PM ^

It is insanely optimistic to say we could roll 12 deep when five of the players you listed have not played one minute for Michigan and three played spot minutes. I think our starting lineup plus Duncan are set to be solid. I think X will be ready for major minutes as most JB PGs have made steady improvements by their second year. And I think Matthews will be a good player for us despite only seeing him a bit at Kentucky and only practice reports to go on now. I think we can comfortably say that those two will be solid contributors at the least. But we have no idea how good Teske/Davis/Watson and the freshmen will do. Brooks, Poole and Livers could struggle to adjust to the college game right away for all we know. Though I personally think they'll be ready for 10sh minutes a game.

Frank Chuck

March 26th, 2017 at 8:09 PM ^

I like the guards+forward we're bringing in. None of them will have to play 20 minutes each.

But if they as a group give us an offensive and/or defensive boost over 10-20 minutes in any given game (w/r/t foul trouble), they'll be solid.

Hence, none of them will be pushed into the starting role. They can ease into the college as the back-up and then be ready for a larger (starting?) role as sophomores.

 

bacon1431

March 26th, 2017 at 8:23 PM ^

I highly doubt they give us a boost on defense as Poole and Livers have both had less than glowing reviews on that end of the court (which is not unexpected for freshmen under JB). Despite feeling good about the freshmen, that hardly means we could roll 12 deep. It's rare for an entire freshman class to be able to contribute right away under JB. Which is fine. We also have major questions regarding Teske/Davis/Watson and how much they'll be able to contribute.

Frank Chuck

March 26th, 2017 at 8:30 PM ^

In an age of one-and-done, fans are far too impatient. Look at the improvement DJ Wilson in year 3 under Beilein. Teske and Davis will give us some contributions next year.

I understand the concern about the 2017 class since the players will be freshmen and they'll need to climb the learning curve. But this incoming group is capable of doing it.

I'm very excited for next season.

My primary concern is the PG position. I was expecting more from Xavier Simpson as a freshman but I realize that Walton's huge improvement in the 2nd half played a part in X getting fewer/smaller opportunities.

Frank Chuck

March 26th, 2017 at 9:07 PM ^

1. The comment about patience wasn't directed at you. I actually meant to put that in another post but I replied to you.

2. I said we could have a team that legitimately rolls 12 deep which is my way of saying we could have 12 players that play minutes for us next season. (Would you be surprised if Poole or Eli Brooks or Austin Davis played frequently against the inferior/weaker oppoents during the OOC schedule?) I also said I expect Beilein to cut the rotation down to 9 (or max 10 players) but you didn't mention this important detail.

bacon1431

March 26th, 2017 at 10:38 PM ^

"Legitimately roll 12 deep" means you think we are going to have 12 players capable of playing significant minutes. At least that's what I consider depth to be. Now you're saying depth consists of people playing against inferior opponents? That makes no sense. According to your standards, Teske and Watson were depth this season. They weren't ready to significantly contribute, which is fine. But in no way were they depth. I highly doubt we will have 12 players that will significantly contribute. If depth is just plyers that play, we will probably be 14-15 deep after you count walk ons.....

Frank Chuck

March 27th, 2017 at 12:39 AM ^

"Legitimately roll 12 deep means you think we are going to have 12 players capable of playing significant minutes."

No, it doesn't. You ASSumed that's what I meant when you should've asked for clarification.

I'm only responsible for what I type and not what you choose to misinterpret via ill-founded assumptions.

As I mentioned in a post below, no coach plays 12 players because it affects continuity/chemistry of the line-up. No sane coach limits a starter to just 25 minutes just to give his back-up 15 minutes. If the starter can play 30-35 minutes (provided he stays out of the foul trouble), then the starter gets priority. A player is the starter because he's the better option.

But if we have a 9th or 10th player that can give us 2-4 minutes in extenuating circumstances, then he will play. Beilein proved that during the 2013 season.

Frank Chuck

March 27th, 2017 at 5:33 PM ^

Very underwhelming response. None of those players played during the important conference games, the Big Ten Tournament, or the NCAA Tournament. But you're welcome to f*** around and obfuscate my point. I'm done replying to you because I'm well aware of your posting history.

bacon1431

March 27th, 2017 at 10:17 PM ^

Best I can come up with? I'm just trying to get clarification on what you're thinking regarding depth for next season. Not trying to put you down or anything like that. If you're being defensive about my comments, probably says more about you than me as I'm not getting personal *shrug* In a discussion about what depth would look like next season, you asked if I'd be surprised if some played frequently against inferior opponents or blowouts. That is what you are using to determine if they qualify as depth. Hibbits, Wright-Jones, Lonergan and Watson all played in double digit games. Almost all against crappy competition or in games already decided. Why are the walk one not counted for depth? We won't roll "legitimately 12 deep" because we most likely won't have 12 players capable of contributing in those important games. Not because JB will limit the rotation. He will, but it'll be because we don't have the depth to roll 12 deep and it makes no sense to play 12 players.

Frank Chuck

March 26th, 2017 at 8:24 PM ^

...Beilein will cut the rotation down to 9-10 players even if all 12 can play minutes.

(Coaches place a premium on continuity. There is such a thing as too much depth.)

AA Forever

March 26th, 2017 at 9:54 PM ^

that we will go 9 or 10 deep, and we never, ever do.  7 or 8 has always been the limit, and it will be next year too.  The "rotation" is the guys who play basically every game, no matter who the opposition is, or what the score is.  Playing minutes in garbage time or in a blowout doesn't count.  Poole will probably not redshirt, but whether he'll be in the regualr rotation is another question.

Frank Chuck

March 26th, 2017 at 10:35 PM ^

False.

See 2013

During the NCAAT, we played Burke, Stauskas, Hardaway Jr., Robinson III, McGary as the starting 5. And the back-ups were LeVert, Albrecht, Jordan Morgan, and Jon Hood to make it 9. Bielfeldt was the 10th player.

That 2013 team was very talented (with 6 NBA players and some great college role players like Jordan Morgan).

When a team has talent, a coach would be crazy to not maximize it. But rarely does a college program have that much talent on one team.

But because the Fresh 5 were so damn good as freshmen, Beilein chose to play them (even over experienced players).

I think people will be pleasantly surprised by how good next season's team is.

Frank Chuck

March 27th, 2017 at 12:39 AM ^

Caris wasn't a big part during conference season. He emerged near the end of the season and becamse the 9th player in the rotation during the NCAAT (something I've repeatedly pointed out).

In you overzealousness to prove me wrong, you ignored the most important time of the year. It's apparent in your answer. If you were not intellectually dishonest, you would've looked at the NCAAT as well. You fell prey to confirmation bias. See below for evidence.

Round of 64: South Dakota State - 9 players.

(http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330800130)

Round of 32: VCU - 9 players (plus walk-ons because we blew them out)

(http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330820130)

Sweet 16: Kansas - 9 players

(http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330882305)

Elite 8: 10 players (plus walk-ons)

(http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330900057)

Final Four: Syracuse: 9 players

(http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330960130)

National Championship Game: 9 players

(http://www.espn.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330980097)

So in 6 NCAAT games, Beilein played 9 players in all of them.

And lest you think I'm focusing exclusively on the NCAAT, I can link other box scores of other games from the end of the Big Ten season (like at Purdue and Indiana) + the Big Ten Tournament where LeVert played as the 9th player.

That was a young team. As players got better, they got more playing time. Who can forget McGary exploding onto the scene during the NCAAT? His emergence transformed us from a Final Four hopeful to a National Championship contender.

Finally, I don't give a flying hoot if overly-optimistic Michigan fan predict a big rotation every season only to see a 7-8 man rotation. Beilein has demonstrated that he will play players when they can contribute. See the 2013 season (which was his best team so far at Michigan). I think the 2018 team has a chance to be similarly special because of the combination of talent, experience, and depth.

MichiganMan14

March 26th, 2017 at 7:41 PM ^

His PT will probably hinge on his ability to bring the ball up the floor. If he can combo guard for us come November...he will play. Simpson will have a chance to take the spot but MAAR and Poole both have some upside at the PG spot as well and are significantly bigger. Should be interesting. One of the freshman bigs has to prove worthy of scholarship for this team to prosper next year. Teske should be developed enough to give us minutes at the 5 spot and that allows us to go HUGE with Wilson at the 3 and Wagner the 4.

Maize in Cincy

March 26th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^

This is what I'm looking forward to, finally the chance at a big lineup like some of these blue blood programs seem to always have.  MAAR, Matthews, DJ, Mo and one of Teske/Davis (or we can still dream of Bamba)

AA Forever

March 26th, 2017 at 10:09 PM ^

From what Beilein has said, he wishes he had redshirted Teske instead.  Wilson will never play the 3.  He and Wagner will start at the two bigs (assuming they don't bolt for the NBA), and Davis will be the regular backup, with Teske getting clean-up minutes.  Hopefully, Matthews and Livers will compete for the starting 3 spot, with Robinson as backup.

IvyLeague

March 26th, 2017 at 7:42 PM ^

Next year. I think it was mentioned in another thread that he went to a prep school w/ a ton of talent just to be sure he was ready to come in and play right away. Watson wasn't redshirted because of depth issues. JB wasn't sure who was going to help more - Watson or Xavier Simpson. 

Qmatic

March 26th, 2017 at 7:54 PM ^

Poole can score the ball, and will be good. Expect him to emerge as a sophomore. Can we please please please land Bamba. The thought of rolling a lineup of Wilson Wagner and Bamba does bad things to me

The Fan in Fargo

March 26th, 2017 at 8:11 PM ^

Poole is smoove but needs more speed and muscle. Is this Bamba guy a center because all this team is missing is that center who can get 10 to 15 points a game in the paint and muscle opposing bigs. Unstoppable if they get a guy like this.

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

March 26th, 2017 at 9:30 PM ^

I knew he was a shooter and legitimate scorer with the ability to create his own shot, but those highlights were as much penetrate-n-dish as get his own shot. With the trend in college for scorers like Fox and Ball to play "point", I can easily see Beilein letting him control the point for portions of the game with 4 other scoring threats.

WolverineinSB

March 26th, 2017 at 9:32 PM ^

Oh the classic ballislife highlight. Makes most players look like potential stars. I really do like his skill set and potential but I have had my heart broken so many times with ballislife haha

Double-D

March 26th, 2017 at 10:27 PM ^

I have not seen what looks like a consistent three point threat from X. He is a better shooter than Tum Tum but we have all seen MSU struggle when a defense can play 5 on 4 defense against MSU when Tum Tum is in. X looks like he is super quick and handles the ball well. He is also a menace on defense. He was such a big scorer in high school. Does anyone see him making a big improvement in his shooting next year?

Erik_in_Dayton

March 26th, 2017 at 11:17 PM ^

...Poole never played point guard, though it's worth noting that they have an excellent player who does. Poole also didn't drive much or have many assists. He really was just a shooter in those games for his stacked high school team, but he's very good at that.