Is it Coaching, Scheme or Talent that has us playing "Cleaner"
Was thinking about this after Saturday's game, but we are playing some of the least-penalized football I can remember in recent years. I don't have the exact numbers but off the top of my head:
- Pass interference calls were commonplace of our defense, and I don't believe we have any this year. Is that a direct result of the switch to a more zone-based secondary or the coaching of Clink vs. Zordich to keep from all of the jersey grabbing?
- While we have never been plagued by holding calls, we've had our fair share over the years. To me, this seems more coaching-related than scheme, because we've ran a version of the same offense for three years and only now have a new O-line coach
- Offensive turnovers: none for the starters/1 for the fourth string. This includes obviously the fumble-bug from a few years past and interceptions in the worst times. Talent or coaching seems more likely than scheme here
- Cases could be made across the offensive and defensive lines (fall starts, offsides) as well as in our special teams, where we have blanketed returns from happening. Could be personnel-related or, are our players coached differently?
Just some thoughts here. I, for one, would have NEVER believed a Michigan team could get through one game without a PI call, let alone five.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:35 PM ^
And a little luck.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:50 PM ^
Some of those wildly inaccurate passes are going to turn into turnovers at some point.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:57 PM ^
Not sure why you were negged here, because there were at least 5 throws batted up in the air that had a chance of a pick. Your observation was accurate.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^
I think Cade is a mixed bag and some of those poor throws are actually really good instant decisions. A couple of examples:
- The first play incompletion, the DB was starting to cut in-front of the receiver. Had Cade thrown it low and inside, there was a much better chance for an interception. Instead it was behind the receiver where no one could catch it, unless CJ comes up with a miraculous catch. It looks bad on the surface, but I'm of the belief it was a good play to avoid the turnover.
- On Baldwin's first drop, Cade threw it behind Baldwin to avoid a defender.
- On the medium level pass over the middle that landed at the receivers feet, the receiver was about to run into a zone of triple coverage. Had it been a perfect throw to the receiver, it is likely picked off. Instead it looks like a horrifically inaccurate throw which allows them to live another play.
It's not all perfect, Cade needs to improve on getting throws out earlier. I also thought the throw to CJ in double coverage was a really bad idea, but he got away with it thanks to CJ.
Seeing him in person leads me to believe Cade can process certain things very quickly but he still needs game experience to gain confidence to know when he can and can't make certain throws. That is why there is a mixed bag of results.
October 4th, 2021 at 6:20 PM ^
Listening to Devin Gardner, that first throw Cade didn’t see Sainristil going down the field by himself! Coverage beaten by 5yds or more, and when you watch the replay you see it. Likely the throw was called to go to Baldwin.
This is the biggest thing about not going to the games in person, I miss those things you can’t see on the broadcast. The bigger deal though that Gardner talks about is Cade when he sets his feet he is very accurate and when he doesn’t you get the junk balls he throws.
October 4th, 2021 at 8:33 PM ^
It's hard to see everything watching live, but he was WIDE open. That was a touchdown but was the opposite side as Baldwin and Cade never came off him.
Last game i attended was in Madison 2019. They weren't winning that no matter what but it was so frustrating watching Nico hand waving open behind the defense several times and Shea never unleashing.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:35 PM ^
While I don't know the answer to your question, this post is precisely why I remain optimistic about this team. It's not just the wins so far, it's the appearance of a very different product on the field than we've seen in recent years. Hopefully, our "cleanliness" is a sign of both talent and coaching, which appears to translate nicely into W's...who knew???
October 4th, 2021 at 8:44 PM ^
Our DB’s and Safety’s did a lot more clutching in past seasons. I don’t see much of that this year. We had one near PI this past Saturday (Wiscy crowd booed loudly) but the M player had his arms extended. The ball was over thrown, but if there was any tugging, there would have been a flag.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:35 PM ^
Brian and Seth have complained the secondary have given too much cushion given the opponents. But, yeah, less man and more zone plays a big part in the lack of PI. Also probably opponent driven - we haven't faced squads of NFL receivers yet.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:53 PM ^
And there have been some beneficial no calls.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:34 PM ^
Probably more applicable - we haven’t faced even a good QB yet.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:50 PM ^
Western’s QB is pretty good. But it is sad the best QB we’ve faced is a MAC QB.
October 4th, 2021 at 7:17 PM ^
As a general rule, this board does not give G5 and FCS programs enough credit for actually being good when they’re good.
October 4th, 2021 at 7:47 PM ^
Complaining about too much cushion for defense giving up 11 pts per game is like complaining about your starting QB that has 0 losses and 0 picks a full half season into his career.
Sure you might be able to get "other" results (more picks from your corners, more passing yardage from your qb) but you might also get a lot more than just that.
October 4th, 2021 at 10:21 PM ^
Yeah, they complain about cushion, but how many big pass plays have we given up?
October 4th, 2021 at 10:32 PM ^
The team is playing very well but lets not act like there aren't things that can be improved. Giving up those easy yards so consistently is something that can be fixed with coaching. Nobody is acting like it is the downfall of the team, just an area to improve.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:38 PM ^
From everything we hear the new coaching hires have made a world of difference to Harbaugh and his attitude, so I would guess a lot of the difference we are seeing is from coaching.
Guess we will never know but could have been some pretty toxic stuff behind the scenes between different staff members.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:38 PM ^
Sometimes a change is as good as a rest. We basically have an entirely new staff, and all of the coaches are significantly younger than Harbaugh. Just being around younger and more enthusiastic people can invigorate anyone.
It's why I never understood senior living communities. Why would you want to only be around people your own age?
October 4th, 2021 at 8:14 PM ^
I like your positive attitude. Please don’t disappear again.
October 4th, 2021 at 9:56 PM ^
Better music.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:39 PM ^
Yes, yes and yes.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:41 PM ^
The answer is yes.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:42 PM ^
Coaching seems the obvious answer here. JH is happily playing his CEO role and the new / young coaches are trying creative and simple things and scheming for each team they face,l AND the prayers are much more interested in learning from coaches who they can relate to (see Age, race, recent careers as players).
It doesn't really matter what is our diagnosis. It's just a really nice change from the year of the gas leak.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:44 PM ^
Don Brown's DB scheme was notorious for grabbing. And we got away with it for a while. I bitch as much as anybody when calls go against us, but even I was surprised we did not get called for it more.
Unfortunately, they finally decided to start calling it - and keep calling it - during the MSU/Lombardi game, and we were caught flatfooted. We could not defend without grabbing.
The current scheme doesn't do that.
October 4th, 2021 at 6:39 PM ^
When you have Jourdan Lewis, vert hill, and David long staying in the receivers hip pocket it's much easier to get away with the grabbing. When there is separation you see all the grabbing. Cb's we have now are not in same class as the one Don brown had early in his tenure here.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:45 PM ^
Offensive holding is kind of a crapshoot, some refs simply ignore it. Some of fumbling is luck and some is coaching, but we mostly keep the QB clean and that's where a lot of fumbles come from.
Likewise, the combination of "not throwing that many passes" and "Cade understands what he can and can't do so he doesn't try to wing it into tight spaces" has led to no picks. He'll take a checkdown before trying something. Eventually one of his deep balls will probably get tipped and picked, and he's had some batted balls at the line where you're always hoping it doesn't go to an opponent, so some of that is luck too, but a lot of it is the QB's decisions. It's possible to be TOO cautious, but he throws deep balls when it looks like the right decision, so I don't think he's overly risk averse. Especially if your dumpoff is to a guy like Corum.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:51 PM ^
Knocking on so much wood here. But the lack of turnovers has felt REALLY great. Remember on the first offensive play of the 2019 season against Middle Tennessee when we lost a fumble?
Also, getting off to good starts has been awesome. Last year, we trailed 7-0 in the first quarter in every....single...game. It's been nice to punch the opponent in the mouth first.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:05 PM ^
(Also profusely knocking on wood) but Haskins at least is approaching Mike Hart ball-security levels. That’s actually what allowed him the opportunity back in 2019. He was 5th(!) on the depth chart to start the year behind: Charbonnet, Turner, Wilson, and BVS. Come Penn St game he was the trusted back because he hadn’t (and still hasn’t) fumbled (on 262 carries)
October 4th, 2021 at 9:02 PM ^
Pretty sure the first throw against Hawaii in 2016 was a pick as well.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:51 PM ^
I don’t know a ton about football coaching but I will say this: This new staff has done an exceptional job self-scouting. By that I mean, they figured out what every guy on the roster can contribute, and they’ve done their best to put those guys in positions to succeed. It’s so much the rule with this team that the few exceptions stand out almost comically (such as trying to pass to Honigford). I have to believe this contributes to fewer penalties
October 5th, 2021 at 6:48 AM ^
Isn’t that coaching?
October 4th, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
Teams with good coaching staffs.......look like they know what they are doing.......or...... cleaner.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
Michigan had the leads experienced team in the country last year, then didn't have much of an off-season to prepare guys. Coaches have done a good job and guys are more experienced but absolutely having a normal off-season with older, more experienced players and no major injuries save Bell have helped immensely.
October 4th, 2021 at 10:55 PM ^
Didn't see this before I commented below but agree 100 percent. It's experience that's the biggest factor compared to last year.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:56 PM ^
It's coaching. This team is not that much different than last year in terms of personnel but the play is night and day
October 4th, 2021 at 5:05 PM ^
1. COACHING
2. COACHING
3. COACHING
October 4th, 2021 at 6:12 PM ^
Yeah with Covid restrictions I imagine the amount of actual coaching was also severely restricted. And the team was pretty inexperienced to boot. Then you add in all of the opt outs and injuries and they were screwed.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:57 PM ^
There's no way to really quantify it -- I don't think - but this team feels like its playing a bit looser than previous incantations. I think that could certainly have an effect on penalties/fumbles as the team is less likely to be 'gripping the club too tightly'
October 4th, 2021 at 9:22 PM ^
Player chemistry also. Starting QB isn't trashing his own team, was Giles happy, BVS unhappy with his switch to defense? Certainly coaching can influence this but sometimes individuals affect chemistry in ways that aren't predictable. And winning/losing certainly affects chemistry.
October 4th, 2021 at 4:59 PM ^
I think basic coaching has a lot to do with it, followed by the much more intangible mindset and culture changes that seem to have been implemented. Also a little luck and the simple fact we haven't faced major tests yet. When we are strained, that stuff might creep back to a degree.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:01 PM ^
Probably a combination of talent, coaching (remember Shoop was not in person), player motivation, less Covid distractions and disruptions, and luck.
October 4th, 2021 at 9:57 PM ^
And for now, weak opponents.
October 4th, 2021 at 11:03 PM ^
Well, we are certainly making them look weak. I think of the teams we have beaten, at least 3 are bowl bound. These are not joke teams; Western is a solid MAC team and beat Pittsburgh, which is one of their better wins in recent memory and frankly impressive. Washington has players on the team who have played for Pac-12 championships; they are a proud program with a lot of talent and some sure fire NFL picks. Wisconsin has attributes that make them difficult even in a down year; if their schedule was more evenly spread out and not 3 top 10 opponents in the first four weeks, they could easily have been 3-1 or 4-0 heading into our game. I still think they’ll rip off a winning streak now that they essentially play Purdue and Northwestern for the next 8 weeks in a row - that’s another bowl team. And Rutgers is vastly Improved, we played an awful game, and we still won.
I think we’ve beaten decent competition, and just made them look bad through our dominance!
October 4th, 2021 at 5:02 PM ^
When players are inspired this is the result. Credit to the staff in making it fun and engaging for the players. And to the staff in general.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:14 PM ^
Like it or not, the Brown scheme was to play press-man coverage and commit PI/Defensive Holding on EVERY play with the thought that the officials couldn't/wouldn't call it every time.
Over time, as we became "known" for holding, it got called more and more. And when you watched the replays, we were guilty. It wasn't like we were getting totally BS calls.
I think that was just the nature of that scheme, so for that, the new scheme is likely a reason.
Lack of interceptions are partially Cade doing a good job not forcing the ball and partially luck. Lack of fumbles is probably mostly luck, but obviously some good ball security by our backs too."
October 4th, 2021 at 5:20 PM ^
I think it’s been discussed around here quite a bit that turnovers are an awful lot of luck or random, but in Michigan’s case it’s a little more obvious; our QB hasn’t been asked to do much. Cade doesn’t run with it much, and given the success of the run game, they’ve been allowed to treat the forward pass like they’re allergic.
Penalties- in the case of the OL and DL, they’re just winning. You hold when you get beat, and they just haven’t gotten beat much this year. As for the DBs, they still haven’t been tested much. The times they have, there’s been a tug or two that could have been called, but the pass rush has been good enough to keep them from getting hung out for too long.
I hope I’m wrong but you might see a slight reversion to the mean this week. Martinez is athletic enough that the DL is going to have a hard time getting home, and he’s going to get a duck or two off that a receiver is going to have to come back for and I won’t be surprised to see DBs getting jammed up.
October 4th, 2021 at 6:19 PM ^
Yep Martinez will be their biggest offensive challenge by far this year. Neb at home, at night is going to be the best offense (not even close), and prob overall team UM will have faced..
October 4th, 2021 at 5:28 PM ^
I would say that coaching is the answer to the question. Scheme plays a small part but the coaching has changed a lot of it, plus not having faced any NFL caliber QB's to this point. Heck, they might not face one all year.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:35 PM ^
How about a full period to actually practice and train... Comparing anything to the 2020 season is stupid.
October 4th, 2021 at 5:47 PM ^
That's where I am. Nothing about 2020 was anything close to normal, including the fact that I checked out of watching games entirely during September.
As far as I'm concerned we're picking up where we left off after losing to Alabama in the Citrus Bowl.