Freep Article on Winovich
There is a nice article over at the Freep on Chase Winovich.
Much of the discussion here and elsewhere has questioned whether his offer list and 3 star ranking are in synch. There are a couple comments in the article that shed some light on this for me (which is why I posted a link for the article):
Although he’s a three-star prospect, Winovich has plenty of upside for the Wolverines. He played safety as an underclassman for Thomas Jefferson High School and made the switch to linebacker during his junior campaign, while also starting at running back for the Jaguars. The position switch paid off.
“My numbers seem low when you compare them to other (top linebackers), but I think I had like 77 (tackles) and the next kid on my team had like 40,” Winovich explained. “I did make all-conference, and I only played linebacker for about eight games last year.”
If last year was his first year at LB, and he already did this well, it would explain why both Hoke and Urban were interested in locking him down. I actually think he was ranked appropriately, but I also believe he has a high ceiling. I'd love to see him redshirt, just like Ryan, and come in and play in 2015 as a redshirt freshman.
That's why I think Brady Pallante is the next Jordan Kovacs.
Yep, and just like every football player of Korean decent is like Hines Ward. Just like Nebraska's Choi. I mean it's basically science. Basically.
I was Hines Ward before Hines Ward was Hines Ward.
Yeah, but he's white.
Sam Webb definitively says he's in line for a ratings bump, at least on Scout. After the meeting where such things are discussed, Webb talked to one of the scouts and the guy said "this kid's sensational."
This is one of those times when the coaches see something and go HARD after someone before a player's ratings blow up. I'm no analyst, but when I watch the tape, it looks very good to me. I'm pretty sure that Mattison saw the same thing, Part of coaching is, well, "coaching." But part of coaching is being able to see someone who fits what you're doing, and to get that player on board before anyone else does. It isn't hard to say, "we want Peppers, we want Hand." But to see something in a player that others miss, well, seeing that and acting on that allows you to really load up with talent.
It's a prediction of the impact they'll have in college iirc.
It's a combination of everything. It predicts the likelihood of a player having success in college, and to what degree. It's certainly not just overall athleticism, because that is more or less important depending on the position.
I can understand how some people here at upset with the Free Press as they did blow the violation story out of proportion. That said, a fair reading of the entire situation has to include the fact that we DID commit violations. They were minor (though labeled "major"), but the adults in our program fucked up.
Now, we've moved on and things are going well in A2. If folks want to continue to boycott the better of the two (non-A2) local papers, so be it. IMHO, it's just kinda childish to complain about links from the paper. You don't want to click? Cool. Don't.
It was still bad journalism on their part and accused the program of doing things that never happened (or at least were never proven).
If I accuse you of stealing a Ferrari but you were only guilty of stealing a King Size Snickers out of the open window of said Ferrari, I'm still in the wrong.
Bad journalism? That happens at every outlet. There is no paper/network/whatever immune from shitty work. It happens and even those directly affected seem to get over it.
As for your analogy...it's more like being accused of stealing a new ferrari when you only stole a used ferrari that needs work.
That's fine if bad journalism happens everywhere. But the great part of capitalism is that there are numerous places who provide the same/similar products. Every car manufacturer makes good cars; every one produces some lemons. I still have a choice of whether to boycott __________ automobiles because of ___________. Crappy restaurant service means the customer doesn't come back. The Freep pissed me off and hurt Michigan's football program - and, by extension, the university itself - through its bad journalism. I'll take my internet traffic elsewhere, whether it's the Detroit News, MLive, etc.
I've got no beef with that. Nothing wrong with that being your personal view; it's the constant anti-freep whining here that's over the top. If folks don't like the paper, don't read/click (your suggestion above).
Only point I disagree with is that it seems to imply the Freep (and only the Freep) hurt Michigan football. I'd say the Freep opened the door to learn of actual violations but neither of those events hurt the program as the adults running the team did.
The people within the university who hurt the program were fired already. There's really not much else that can be done. However, nothing has happened to the people at the Freep, AFAIK. There were multiple guilty parties, but not all have been punished. This is my nearly insignificant way of punishing the rest of them (Snyder, Sharp, etc.).
The difference is, this was a months long supposed in-depth investigation that was deliberately slanted, and when called on it, the writer and editors continued obfuscating and lying. There was never a retraction or apology or admitting of errors. Yes, even quality news organizations make mistakes, sometimes collosal ones, but when pointed out, they own up to it and at least pretend to take steps to ensure similar errors won't be made in the future.
As to an analogy, neither one of those yours nor Magnus's is very good. I have one that's still not great, but it is better than comparison to a stolen car. It's as if the Freep is someone with an axe to grind with one of his neighbors, so he keeps calling the police, claiming the neighbor is driving recklessly, endangering the children in the neighborhood, and reporting the license number. Eventually the police investigate and have on camera the driver going 48 mph in a 45 zone. Others are zipping by just as fast, some a bit faster, some a bit slower, but because some asswipe with a vendetta kept screaming reckless driving, the authorities were compelled to investigate this one driver.
You had me with that analogy until you said, "other are zipping by just as fast..." The "others do it too" excuse is never a good one. We got caught, got punished and have moved on. Doesn't seem like anyone associated with the program holds a grudge like the folks here.
Doesn't seem like anyone associated with the program holds a grudge like the folks here.
No; I think that Dave Brandon holds a grudge with Snyder (and Rosenberg) and it extends to Brady Hoke.
Tell me the last time that either Brandon or Hoke gave Snyder anything other than his standard spot at group press briefings. (Along with every other Michigan beat-writer.) I think that they both refuse to talk to Snyder apart from that setting. For his part, Brandon has made his personal contempt for the Freep public and explicit.
You mean like how everyone from the Free Press lost their press credentials? Or how they aren't allowed on the field? How their photographers aren't allowed to publish pics of players? How they're banned from any and all coverage?
Yeah. Of course not. You rant and whine about THE FREE PRESS but now you're talking about ONE dude who writes for the paper...who still has his "standard spot". You care wayyyyyyy more than Michigan does.
I never suggested any of those things. You're being stupid.
And one more thing. More serious, probably, than what your unserious comment deserves. It's not my job to run Michigan athletics. I don't wear a uniform, and I don't coach anybody. I'm not a spokesman for Michigan or its athletic department. And in those ways, I am like Mark Snyder, and we are both unlike Dave Brandon. I have no idea if I care "waaayyyy" more than anybody in the Athletic Department.
I have criticized Rosenberg and Snyder in a very detailed way for what they wrote. That's all, and I am happy with that. It's not my job to call plays or score touchdowns. I don't have to "focus" on the next game.
You should focus on not calling someone a "silly ass", especially when you drone on endlessly about how much you hate the Free Press due to their horrors in coverage. That's all I've got. Please feel free to get back to writing epics on the relentless harm done to Michigan football by a sports writer.
That's all you've got, huh? You ONLY spoke on behalf of the entire Michigan institution, insisting no one cares about something that happened only 3 years ago. Then you openly wondered why The University of Michigan didn't disallow the entire staff of a major, local newspaper from its campus and proceeded to use that as a basis for your argument. I'd say you've had quite a day here.
Ok, I don't speak on behalf of the extremely tiny minority of face-painters who care more than the vast majority of fans/players/coaches/administrators. My argument is that folks like you need to either get over your grudge (which, unless I'm mistaken never played a football game) or just stop whining about it. You don't like the Freep; don't read it.
The truth is you have no idea what you're talking about and are simply making baseless claims. Show me one shred of proof that no players/coaches/administrators care about what happened with the Freep. I don't give a shit if you call me or anyone else whiny for having our opinions, but don't act like you've got the market cornered on the facts. You're just as whiny as anyone you complain about, but much less rational.
Well, my friend, I've dealt with press on a regular basis in my business life. Sometimes, they burn you. If a particular outlet burns you, you have the choice of turning your back on them or continuing to "do business" with them. If you choose to do business, then you stop whining and act like a fucking professional. That's exactly what our program has chosen to do.
p.s. I didn't say that no one with the University/program cares about what happened, I said they don't care as much as folks like you. Of course, it's much more exciting to get all ranty about something that wasn't said. I'm sure it bothered some folks, but they're adults who see the bigger picture.
Your past dealings with the press are completely irrelevant, as it does not negate the fact you made claims you could never prove. You have no idea how the people in the program feel about the Freep, period. Of course they're going to act like "fucking professionals" - that was my point in response to your absurd notion that Michigan apparently doesn't care because the Freep still has access. They would never be so petty as to revoke press credentials, regardless of how they feel.
p.s. Apparently you also feel it's more exciting to get all ranty about something that wasn't said. I didn't say I cared one way or the other about the Freep. I merely commented on your arguments, so the latter half of your post is as irrelevant as the first.
Do they still make king size Snickers?
1. This wasn't news. It was a link that essentially promoted a fluff-piece.
2. There are some people -- new students, new fans and new student-athletes -- who don't really know the Freep story. Comments like the ones above supply a good tutorial for them.
3. The Rosenberg story evidenced not just bad reporting; it was malice. Rosenberg could have reported on the July memorandum from the auditors about the CARA forms when he got ahold of it. He didn't. He and Snyder spent the next four weeks trying to create a story. They didn't go to anyone who had any authority at Michigan. They could have, but didn't. It shows us very clearly that they didn't want the best story from the most appropriate sources. (Had they done so, it might well have resulted in Michigan sefl-reporting secondary violations that would have gone nowhere.) Rosenberg wanted a different story. He wanted his story; a story that the Rich Rodriguez was a cruel taskmaster unfit to coach at Michigan, unlike Rosenberg's friend Lloyd Carr.
A fluff story on Michigan football??? Oh, the horror. It's not like anyone here likes positive pieces on the program and posts a ton of them.
p.s. New students don't need to learn to hold an old grudge. Let them be happy with the current state of affairs. Hell, maybe it wouldn't have happened without the violations and sinking of the SS RichRod.
The current beat-writer assigned by the Detroit Free Press to cover Michigan athletics is the same guy who profoundly damaged the program with an unfair and unethical story. You don't have to dislike the guy although you should. All you have to care about is fairness, and you'd want to steer clear of Mark Snyder.
And this; there really should be no love lost between Mark Snyder and this website. Snyder regards this website as nothing more than "the competition," even though he no doubt consumes its contents several times a day, every day.
And when Mark Snyder's print colleagues gave him the Michigan Sportswriter of the Year Award the year after they gave it to Michael Rosenberg, it was no more and no less than the sportswriters' collective middle finger raised at the blogs like MGoBlog that ripped the Snyder/Rosenberg story to shreds. The sportswriters don't like to be made to look bad.
Section 1, I beg to differ with you regarding several things.
- I specifically block quoted information that was new to me. To wit, according to the Freep article, Winovich first played linebacker last year, as a junior. I find this pretty significant. If this was his first year at LB, that would typically indicate that his potential for improvement is huge. His tackle numbers were highest on the team, almost double anyone else, and he was named all - conference, with a quote of 77 tackles in the Freep article by Sullivan. In response to your charge of "fluff," I went back and re-read Ace's front page "Hello" piece. As long as Ace's article was, it mentioned neither that last year was Chase's first at LB, nor that Chase had 77 tackles (and that the next LB had 40.) Where I come from, new information qualifies as "news." It seemed as if Sullivan actually interviewed Winovich for the article.
- I'll agree that there are people out there who don't know the Freep story. In that regard, you provided a service by your post.
- I won't agree with your speculation on Rosenberg's motive, namely, malice. this may or may not have been the case. I would tend to think that he thought he was "uncovering" something, which would make his career. In this, he badly misjudged, and twisted the facts to support his own story. Having said that, I think you're hopelessly naive to think that any investigative reporter can go to someone with authority to get the best story. Could someone investigating Tatgate go to Tressel or Smith or Gee to verify the story? Could someone investigating Sandusky go to Paterno to verify that story? Could someone investigating Watergate go to Nixon, or to his cabinet? Could someone investigating Chris Webber go to Ed Martin, or Steve Fisher, to get the facts? In all these cases, the institution has a vested interested in killing the investigation, or in spinning it in a way that allegations are quashed.
- I don't care for Rosenberg, or for Drew Sharp. I'm on the fence as regards Snyder. But I think you're being unfair to Tim Sullivan to suggest that he's cut from the same cloth. If you have something to share regarding Sullivan, go for it.
- Lastly, I pity you for holding on to this grudge, refusing to forgive and to move on. I hazily recall something Brian wrote about RR & maybe Three & Out, about how he wanted to gouge his eyes out with the vitriol and the same old arguments and flame wars, again and again, repeated ad nauseum. I am now at that point with you and the Freep fiasco. For my own sanity, I'll work to refrain from any Freep links in the future.
The fewer the Freep liknks, the better.
As for your substantive point about the reporting of the story, you're wrong. Nothing could have been more pointless and more ridiculous, than interviewing frosh Brandin Hawthorne and Je'Ron Stokes about what should have been the finer points of Countable Athletically-Related Activity.
And Stephen, you seem to have forgotten about exaclty how Snyder and Rosenberg broke the story. The two of them asked for a meeting with Bruce Madej on a Friday afternoon, a week before the football season began, with coaches and administrators busy out of their minds. They told Madej what they planned to report, and aksed for comment. They gave the Athletic Department a scant few hours, before they posted the story on the Freep website late on Saturday. With it headlining the Sunday paper a bit later. And immediately became a national college football scandal.
It was an outrage, Stephen.
And their lack of good reporting showed in the story. Where they blew any good explanation of CARA time calculations as they really occur in the real world.
Stephen, I might think about forgiving and forgetting, when Paul Anger (the publisher), Gene Myers (the editor), Rosenberg and Snyder all apologize for their offenses. They haven't acknowledged any mistakes, much less the ethical lapses. They don't deserve one bit of forgiveness.
Get to work right now, amigo. And find the last time that I initiated an OP about the Free Press.
If somebody mentions the Freep, or asks about something related to their work, I respond. And comment. It's the nature of this Board. And Stephen can do whatever he wants. I think I made my own position clear enough.
I'm pretty satisfied with what has happened with the general attitude toward the Free Press since August 31, 2009.
Anyway, I never told Mr. Kass what to do. He can do what he wants. I'd just rather not see anybody promote the Freep with uncritical links. I'd be quite happy, if anybody wants to criticize the Freep, to have them do so. But at some point that too can become promotion, if it drives readers to their website. I didn't supply a link in that thing with Albom, as I recall. I quoted him, so that no one would have to go there. Ripping on Mitch Albom is always rewarding.
In any event, I am happy that you discovered for yourself that in a couple of years I have started exceedingly few threads concerning the Free Press. Your hard work was worth it.
I dont live in Michigan anymore but I will never "forgive and forget" the Freep for their blatant attempt to destroy something I care deeply about for reasons only they can fathom. Furthermore I think that any business (and I do mean ANY business) that basically declares war on 50% of their potential customers (assuming the M/MSU fandom split with Freep readers to be equal for the purposes of this post only) is so stupid and mis-managed that corporate death would be doing them a favor.
I said it in 2009 and I'll say it now. Anybody working at a newspaper has the same future job security that people working in print everywhere face and at the end of the day all the parties who conspired to write the hachet job will be out of their chosen line of work sooner rather than later. Maybe they can all find gainful employment working as a railroad conductor or travel agent or perhaps selling yellow page ads. I'm sure technology advancements cant touch them there.
Rosenberg, quoted by John U. Bacon:
"I poured my heart and soul into that [book] for three years..."
Oh, the sweet taste of those crocodile tears, Mikey. You poured your heart and soul into something for three years, only to have it unfairly trashed by people you just don't like you? Gee, whiz.
Actually, it wasn't quite as simple as some would have you believe. The infractions, in the end, weren't extraordinary. But Michigan did cop to them, and the NCAA did find reason to penalize Michigan. Some folks here would have you believe that the whole Freep thing was a 100 percent fiction. Michigan did commit some violations. Not huge ones, but violations nonetheless. And the ol' "everyone else was doing them" argument shouldn't fly.
...is that Michigan's practice time violations would very likely have been treated as secondary violations if Michigan had self-reported them without the glare of the national news media following the Freep Sunday paper.
And the quality control GA's observing off-season workouts was about as minor as it gets. Again, worthy of consideration as a secondary violation.
Again, the failure to monitor charge against Rodriguez personally was defeated, and rightfully so.
The NCAA investigation wasn't 100 percent fiction. But the Free Press story was 100 percent overblown. And that is what our Athletic Director says, now, about that affair. The full investigation confirmed his view in that regard.
What Rosenberg and Snyder did was hateful.