Franz Wagner checks in at #42 on 247, #110 in Composite
Didn't see this on the Hello! post and didn't see it on the board. Also checked the date and his rating was updated the day after his commitment post so I think this is new info.
247 considers him a top 50 guy. Last 5-star is at #23, so not quite at the level some were thinking, but still a huge get.
Can't wait for basketball season!
Thanks for sharing. Regardless of what the rankings say (and I'm guessing Franz will move up as time progresses), Franz is an awesome player and provides a huge boost to the team next year.
Not sure if there’s anymore movement to be done for the 2019 class. I think top 50 is about right. He’s an excellent player with high potential, but he still has some things to work on. An Iggy type of year would be enough to be a one and done, but I could see Wagner spending two years at Michigan to really develop his game and mature physically for the NBA.
Perhaps if her gets ranked by other services he moves up in the composite. Otherwise it's too late for camps/new film to move the needle I'd assume.
The Wagners seem well-grounded and value happiness... having said that, I highly doubt Franz comes to college life here for only one year then bolts... two years, yes.. minimum.
If Franz is here for more than two years, I'd be willing to bet that's a major disappointment in terms of how good he is. I'd bet he's a one and done.
If all goes well he's gone after this year. The plan is for him to be in the NBA, and they wanted him to adjust a bit before he jumps into the NBA draft. Two years max, if he's not a for sure guy after two years, I'd assume he probably tries going pro anyway bc he knows he can always go back to Europe if it doesnt work out.
I think it came down to two things for Franz before heading to the NBA.
1. Stay in Europe, get paid while getting better in basketball against real men without having to worry about school.
2. Go to Michigan, get a headstart on experiencing American culture and NBA style of play before declaring for the draft.
Both are important for his development but I suspect that acclimating to the American culture is important for Franz because he'll be spending a lot of time in the USA. Mo struggled in his freshman year on getting used to it and Mo will be there to guide him.
Got to agree. He is young and two years seems like a good bet. Probably still growing.
I think he would yield to J. Howard's better judgment. There is no better consigliere than Juwan Howard when it comes to NBA readiness.
I'm guessing 2 years is the most likely scenario. It will take him that long for Camp Sanderson to get him physically where he needs to be. Also, I don't see him having quite as good a first year as Iggy. Add to that his younger age and desire to get some of the college experience, I'm going with 2 years.
Agree. You can't discount the importance of physical maturity / development. It might not be the same as if we were talking about a football prospect, but Iggy was 19 years old when he arrived on campus, Franz will be 17. I hope that he is a star and blows up to a top 10 pick by the end of his freshman year, but I would say that a good freshmen year followed up by a 'breakout' sophomore year would be the more likely outcome.
If you're replying to me, the exact info was not yet out the date of the Hello post
I feel like in terms of what he brings and what this team needs, he punches above his ranking in terms of importance.
Composite score may reflect that he is not ranked by espn or rivals. Besides, I thought international prospects were not ranked? Perhaps after they commit, then they can be ranked?
It looks like he was given a 4 star rating by Rivals but is not ranked by ESPN. I think normally the composite doesn’t factor in a service if they don’t rank a prospect, so the 110 number seems off here. Maybe the Rivals ranking does bring it down?
Last year the same thing happened with Iggy. Eventually near the end of the cycle his composite updated and he jumped from the 80’s to top 45. It looks like Rivals have Iggy a 5* and ESPN gave him an 88 rating which would have been 42-49 in last year’s class.
I think they do count it against a recruit if a service doesn't rank him. So it's ESPN that's holding Franz down in the composite.
In any case, 247 has Franz at #42, exactly where they ranked Iggy. I'll take that as some kind of a good sign.
#2 in Germany. I had to check it out and the top ranked kid from Germany is going to Minnesota. Actually Franz is ranked dead last in Germany.
I looked at that too, it's weird though because Franz is actually ranked higher on 247 and the composite(Isaiah Ihnen is NA).
Their numbers are messed up. Depending on where you click, you get different rankings for Ihnen, both for 247 and the composite. Numbers are in the wrong places as well. The composite is never going to make sense when one site rates a player.
Not that it matters in any way.
Check the exchange rate, it will make more sense then.
Not clear on the 247 website that he's from Germany ime
Looks like his 2 germs are holding him down in the rankings. Hopefully, Camp Sanderson can strengthen his immune system to deal with that quickly.
The live game, international experience against grown men supersedes all stars and rankings. That's not something that many (any?) American prospects have. That's a much higher level of experience than the AAU circuit against peers and should put him above many of the kids in this class. It might be the equivalent of Iggy's extra year of prep school before coming to Michigan, and we saw what that did for him.
Id be almost certain that scouts underestimate the level of the German league. Alba would run most college teams in the country out of the gym.
Someday I hope this site allows us to rate posts on a 5 star basis. This could be an above average post and you could be a Franz Wagner-level poster.
Wait a minute... hes the number TWO rated player in Germany ? Who is number 1 ? A just dethawed Dirk Nowitski cryo-frozen identical twin ?
Close...https://247sports.com/Player/Isaiah-Ihnen-46080931/ or not close actually at all
MSU is by far the favorite in the conference but maybe we can finish in the top 4 with Franz.
I think he might be getting overhyped a bit given the coaching transition aftermath with the recruiting class, but it's a huge relief to just have another roster spot be taken up for this upcoming year. Takes a lot of burden off of Livers, X and Teske.
and #1 in our hearts for ending up in the class...
I fail to see how hed be a bigger get if he was ranked a 5 star. The rankings are really irrelevant for a player you already have.
I'm so excited for the upcoming basketball season
Asking him to be physically ready, learn the college game, understand aspects of the Pro game - all in 1 year is a lot to assume folks.
More than asking a 17yo to successfully compete with grown men in a decent pro league?
Matt D, if you're reading, where would you put Franz in your Top 100 list?
I preface this by saying my opinion should be taken with a heavy grain of salt, as I've never evaluated Franz live, so I'm attempting to project based on limited film from half way around the world. Franz would check in around 80-90/4star range in my rankings. I compare him to Donovan Johnson (a 2020 target under Coach Beilein), in that he's a below average athlete, does not have the ability to create shots off the dribble for himself or others, but is a good (not great) shooter with great size.
I think any projection of Franz potentially being the leading scorer, or #1 option, for next year's team is very extreme, but I'd love to be wrong here. A catch and shoot type, without a back-to-the-basket game, is rarely, if ever, a number one option at any level of basketball.
My preliminary projection on a tangible basis is this - likely needs a year to improve strength/athleticism and speed of the game before being a heavy contributor in year 2. Essentially a similar trajectory to his older brother.
thanks for the reply. always appreciate your insight. like you, i hope you're wrong!
I'm expecting a contributor this season, but he'll struggle at times with physicality. Then next year I think he becomes a star. Nunez could start ahead of him this year IMO.
I would put the odds on a "one and done" for Franz, he has already been playing pro ball... That being said, I'm looking forward to seeing him contribute this season.
Jabri Abdur Rahim announcing tomorrow. Recently visited Virginia so I'd say its them. Gonna be tough sledding for Howard in 2020.
I tried to drop hints a few weeks back in my 'Notes from St. Louis' post.......buried in the middle of a few NBA tidbits to be subtle. JAR has wanted to be done with the process for a while, hence him likely sitting out July. Unfortunately, we're going to fall victim to Coach Beilein's untimely departure. Barring that, JAR would be at Michigan right now and he would've made that public during his originally planned OV from 6/26-6/28
Thanks for the info. Is he reclassifying? You said he would be at Michigan right now. I wish he would at least visit but I understand relationships are built longterm and Howard doesnt have time to make up. Hopefully Howard can make up some ground with other 2020 talent.
No reclass, meant to convey that he'd be verbally committed to Michigan right now. My apologies for the confusion.
Thanks for the clarification
German professional will give Franz an advantage against kids playing high school competition. Hopefully he’s ready to contribute right away.
Ranking Franz would be hard compared to ranking the other kids who play HS ball in the US
Just because 247 has him at #42 doesn't mean he isn't a 5 star talent. He's playing against better competition than the other kids in the ranking. He is shooting the 3 from further than kids in the US. Their league is probably a bit rougher than US HS Basketball
With the way he's already draining NCAA distance 3's id say that's a 5 star quality in itself
I have a lot of respect for Matt D's assessments but I am higher on Franz than Matt is. I believe he is going to bring a very high value to this team because of what appears to be a very high basketball IQ-with enough physical talent to employ it well. It is indeed very difficult to get a large enough picture of a kid from highlights. But what is good about the tapes is that they do show a versatility that is valuable. I believe his range is real. I believe he can put the ball on the floor well enough for his size that will pose compromises for the defense at either the 2 or the 3. And I disagree about his athleticism-watch this kid get out and run the floor-and finish! The bottom line is that he will more than do his part in keeping a defense honest-and that is a critical aspect of this game.