Discussion Point About Michigan's Big Men
I've seen a lot of posts lately with people lamenting the fact that Michigan needs to get bigger or we're 1 big man away from being really good. This usually generates discussion about the merits of Horford and Mclimans and the groups usually end up divided between the "we're young just let em hit the weights" and the "we need better players". Usually this thread has a couple of we need to get Novak out of the 4 position comments.
I'm not saying I know for sure, but I really think people are missing the point. Beilien does not want more than 1 guy on the floor that can't shoot. I don't think Beilien is planning on playing Horford and Morgan together unless Horford really expands his outside game and ball handling. Smotrcyz is Beilien's prototype player for the 4. He needs a lot of weight work, but I don't think you'll see him displaced.
I think Beilien's a great coach and would adapt to the talent he had. If Amir Williams or another polished big man came here, I'd be curious how Beilien adapted his offense, but for the time being our offense works because of spacing. He has said repeatedly he wants shooters on the floor, not to shoot 3's all the time but to force the defense away from the basket to allow for drives, back doors, easy post ups and 3's. At that point it is just what the defense picks to take away and we go the other way.
So to sum up I think unless Mclimans or Horford really show they can shoot next year you will see the 4 being manned by Novak and Smotrcyz. Hopefully more Smotrycz so Novak can play more 2 and 3, but we'll see. I've seen no evidence Beilein wants 2 bigs on the floor at the same time unless they can shoot from deep. So I think some of the "traditionalists" looking for dump downs in the post and Charles Oakley at the 4 are going to be frustrated for a while.
What do you think?
So what you're saying is that the spread is here to stay in Ann Arbor.
Having a team of tree-people is just football on hardwood.
Why did you do this to my thread? I even edited out a RR football analogy to avoid a thread hijack and the 1st post is this?
In Jerry's best Newman voice.
"JG2112"
Come on Ziff. I am joking. All joking.
I agree with your observations.
Thats why you got the Newman. I know where you were going.
They are really manning up right now but they are getting murdered in the post and on the Boards. Tisdale wasn't even jumping to score, WIsconsin had like a ten minute possession and Minnesota was facing them up on the block all day. They need to get bigger. Whether their currect roster just needs to grow into itself or whether they need additional help is a different story, but I think this current formula has a ceiling of fourth or fifth place in conference.
We will be 4th or 5th THiS year and they have not hit their ceiling yet. Not to mention the attrition other teams will face after this season.
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<br>I could see us competing with Wisconsin next year for the big ten title.
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<br>I have full confidence that Smotz will become the 4 we need. Remember most players don't make "the jump" in this offense until years 2 or 3. THJ is just a freak.
because "maturity" is such a useful quality for a 6'4 guard trying to regularly defend a 7'0 center. Love this team man but until they have development a consistent post threat we will be holding our breath as potentially game winning/losing three pointers fly threw the air.
People are completely disregarding that Smotrycz is a big four who was a top 50 recruit. He'll be guarding the fours next year, not Novak.
Smot ain't gonna guard shit until he plays with more energy and effort on the D end, which is why his minutes have been going to Christian.
One play that really sticks in my mind, was the Iowa game when Marble got out on the break and hit a 12 footer. On the replay you could see Smot half assin it back up the court. As a friend of mine from Malta says, ''Beilien don't go for dat"
I should know the stats but Brian has made the point several times we are a good rebounding team.
To limit a team with no seniors to their actual current position is pretty pessimistic. You need to smile or go away for spring break. Don't tell me you think the defense won't improve in football either. It is a proven fact that players generally get better during the course of their college careers, so to have a little hope is not a bad thing.
just discussing your post. Who brought up football?
I think the OP is right about the notion of JB's offense, but it misses the point of "getting bigger." The need is not to add another big man on the floor, it's simply to make the main "big man" bigger. Morgan is only 6-8 and playing the "center." Ideally, we'd have a 6-10 ish guy in that spot (or sharing time)...as long as they can step out and shoot (a tough find).
Do we have a confirmation on his height? He looks bigger than that to me. I don't see Morgan being displaced anytime soon so I think you are just the guy I was writing this for. Beilien isn't Izzo or Tubby Smith. It's just a different strategy and one I don't think you can believe in.
Oakley could hit a J but 20ft? He averaged 12pts a game at his peak and I think a lot of that was garbage baskets from rebounding so I think your memory is a bit optimistic. If he could solidly hit 20ft j's with his body and rebounding he would be called K. Malone.
6-8 comes from Mgoblue.com (as good a source as any, although you never know). My point is that at the moment, there is nobody very reliable that can spell Morgan unless Blake really develops in the future. ideally, we'd have someone with more size that can rotate in for more minutes...not displace Morgan, just compliment him and provide an option for when we play "the bigs" or when Jordan gets in foul trouble.
He could knock down 20-footers from the baseline and the top of the key. Beilein would love him.
that is a good post ziff... im the one who did the diary on the one big man away, thing. but the fact is it'll be tough to guard against the skilled big boys (not the sampsons) with another big player.
I think people are overplaying this "Beilein is more concerned with shooting than size at the 4" meme. Yes, ideally, one of the two bigs in his system would be a legitimate 3 point threat with the requisite size to play in the post. But at the same time, I don't think he's going to automatically sacrifice the defensive and rebounding advantages of a big 4 just to get the shooting of Novak. I just can't see Beilein, if Horford works his tail off and is a legitimate Big Ten big man next year, forcing either Horford or Morgan to come off the bench in order to keep Novak, Douglass, Morris and Hardaway as the starters.
Smotrycz is obviously the better fit at the 4 under Beilein, and hopefully he has a sophomre leap so that he's the obvious starter, but, Horford needs to be able to be on the court more as well, and not just as Morgan's backup. Also, remember, that it doesn't take 3-point range to provide spacing, one step in can do it as well, and that's a shot that Horford should be able to develop.
Horford certainly thinks he can shoot that shot already...
I don't think anyone loves the idea of watching Novak have to guard guys like Sampson or Mbakwe. I know I didn't. Beilein is just playing his best 5 guys at this point and Smotrycz has really been more of a liability than anything in big minutes of late, so Beilein's just doing everything he can to coax wins out of the team. I don't see Smotrycz ever being a double digit rebounding threat but he's tall and he's going to get better/more comfortable with the college game. Horford and McLimans have nowhere to go but up, as well. I would love to bring in a monster inside guy in the 2012 class cause it looks like it won't happen in 2011 but it's not out of the realm of possibility that we can get some significant improvement from our guys now.
Actually, when Beilein first came in, he intended on playing with a smaller lineup (similar to what we now have). After his first year, he said that he underestimated the size and physicality of the Big Ten and would be adjusting his game somewhat to deal with it. He began to look for big men (tall and wide) after that point (public record stuff...not inside info). We struck out with Cronin...we lost Benzig to the rules...and now he's after this giant. I think JB is doing a good job realizing, and attempting to resolve, a weakness.
Will we see Morgan and a giant at the same time? I'm not sure of the answer to that, but I only care that we don't see McLimans and, in the future, are able to give a guy like Horford time to develop.
I don't think a big man not in the Evan mold needs to be a three point threat per se, but I think he needs to at least have a midrange/explosion game i.e. Amare Stoudemire or something in that ilk. Someone who can catch the ball a step or two inside the 3 point line and be anywhere from not-useless to terrifying, trending towards the latter as an upperclassman.
The problem is essentially this: with 4 shooters you hollow out the key and allow slashers to be terrifying. If the other team chooses to help on a drive then the kickout for 3 is open. If that 3 point threat isn't on then the key is more congested and things become meh. As such I think he would need to provide a threat even if it's not all the way out at the three point line.
I'm curious (and excited, like a little school girl) to see Smotrycz play next year. In most of the games that I've seen on this year, he seems to be lacking confidence, obviously on the defensive end. That could come from another year in the program (strength training and game experience). I hope it does. This team would be fun to watch.
Do you remember how confused the whole team was in Bielien's first year, especially on offense? Even the veteran players. Think how hard it is with freshmen. Now, if we had an experienced veteran team that started mostly jrs. and srs., guys like Smotrycz, Horford, and Christain would be getting only spot playing time and not depended upon to carry the load. They would be able to learn and develop and contribute later in their careers.
I guess what we would all like is a 6'8" Zack Novak. Maybe our best hope is to land Nash in 2012. A kid with guard skills that could end up being 6'8 - 6'10".