Dez on College Gameday
Desmond Howard and Kirk Herbstreit just had a debate about DB on Gameday. Desmond's main points were defending DB and all the funds he raised and how he was a champion of Women's sports. He basically implied the only reason DB was forced into resignation was because of the football team's performance. Is he this out of touch with the state of affairs and the fan-base or is this just a scripted talking point from ESPN?
November 1st, 2014 at 10:06 AM ^
No way is Desmond this out of touch. No one is this out of touch.
Most people don't realize how scripted shows like this are. Gotta be scripted.
(please be scripted)
November 1st, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:07 AM ^
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November 1st, 2014 at 10:42 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
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November 1st, 2014 at 10:18 AM ^
If Michigan's 8-0 right now, do people's angry gripes become low grumbles, and instead of protesting they just shrug and say, "The guy's a prick, but he's delivering a quality product so I guess I'll deal with it"? Probably. That doesn't make the gripes illegitimate, though. Instead, here are all these gripes, on top of delivering a poor product, at least for the most important product line, football.
This is a fanbase that has no problem pointing the finger at the coach. Fire Lloyd. Fire Rod. Fire Borges. If it's strictly about football, why isn't it just Fire Hoke?
And fuck OSU and MSU fans, the ones mostly pushing this meme. Imagine a parallel world where Hoke is the scourge of the B1G, working on yet another championship this year and making life hell for Urban Meyer and Mark Dantonio. The Morris fiasco happens. Like OSU and MSU fans wouldn't be the loudest voices of "concern" for Shane's health, demanding investigations. Everyone's a hypocrite when given the opportunity.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^
I don't understand your point. You're asking us to imagine a land where a Brady Hoke coached Michigan team is 8-0 and Dave Brandon is an asshole, but in reality they are not 8-0 and Dave Brandon is still an asshole.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
"everyone's a hypocrite when given the oppurtunity" well I can agree with you on that
November 1st, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
If Michigan's 8-0 right now, do people's angry gripes become low grumbles, and instead of protesting they just shrug and say, "The guy's a prick, but he's delivering a quality product so I guess I'll deal with it"?
Maybe. But the problem with your hypothetical is that in the single biggest decision Brandon had to make as AD, he hired a guy who was woefully underqualified for the job. The main reason we aren't 8-0 right now is because Hoke is our head coach (as for Hoke being "the scourge of the Big Ten" -- LOL). That's directly on Brandon. And don't worry, Hoke is on his way out as well.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
When Richard Bernstein said the entire Morris fiasco was a "spark in a dry, dry forest", I think he was speaking to the drained goodwill towards the athletic department, and even if the record of the football team is better, if we change nothing else about what has gone on, then it likely delays Brandon's departure rather than prevents it, at least in my opinion.
Something you said, however, speaks a bit to why it was important to get David Brandon off the campus - it isn't just about football really, even though it is undeniable that football drives the proverbial bus in terms of revenue and prominence. The base problems, expressed in terms of the Giant Noodle, the handling of Morris, general admission, and the like had been allowed to fester to a point where the culture and - perhaps more importantly - the public image of the entire department was becoming problematic for fans, alums, students and the University itself.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^
I probably should have made clear that my last paragraph was not to support the first two, but to make a different point that was only tangentially related. Probably should have been a different post.
In any case, I'm not saying people didn't have a right to be upset with Brandon and want him out, I'm just saying I think some people, and I don't purport to know what percentage, would be more willing to tolerate some things if the team were winning. I clearly acknowledge in my second paragraph that it definitely isn't just about football. I just think a winning football team might mitigate things to a degree.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:04 AM ^
coming up, but the point is the team isn't doing well and hasn't for a year or more, so why alter the landscape reality to consider something when the issues that sunk DB revolved around his people skills and corpratizing practices which would have been the same regardless of Michigan's win-loss record? Maybe they get overlooked in a winning season, but they don't go away, so I guess I don't understand this POV.
The situation is what it is. And Brian was harping about many of these things for more than a year, so it's not like they weren't known or made public and even discussed from time to time. The problems exacerbated because he alienated so may constituencies on campus for a variety of reasons and in the end, his poor customer relation skills left him no choice but to resign. This doesn't mean that DB is a bad guy and doesn't love Michigan or didn't have the school's best interests at heart in all his endeavors. In fact, I think quite the contrary is true.
Arrogance of power is frequently a flaw that kills kings and elected officials. DB was his own worst enemy in running his ship of state.
When a relative of one our posters got a message from Brandon telling her to have a nice life and suggested she might want to support another team, who could deny those words are not what any Michigan athletic director should be saying to anyone who writes him an email on any subject. You just don't do that. We all know that. DB thought this was perfectly reasonable. On Wednesday, he realized there was no sense fighting the inevitable and so maybe you could say that email was the beginning of his end.
Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't, but it's sort of irrelevant now. The deal is done.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:09 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^
the Morris injury. There is just no way of knowing what can happen play to play, game to game, to say whether or not a player would or would not be playing.
November 1st, 2014 at 12:53 PM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:17 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:18 AM ^
But during the discussion on Florida, he took Muschamp to task for burning through three OCs, not developing players, making excuse after excuse, etc. He didn't come right out and use the word, but it was obvious that he meant to question Muschamp's competence to do the job.
I tuned in a minute or two late and when I heard it, I thought he was talking about Hoke. Maybe he was, but used the Florida discussion to get his shots in at the Michigan Football state of affairs without directly attacking Hoke himself.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
makes silly predictions about the team winning games (like beating Bama or winning the conference) it is ok...but if he presents a differing opinion on Brandon, he is out of touch.
I would lean towards the segment being a bit scripted to present both sides of the argument over DB, and they gave Herbie the "fan" side since Desmond already appeals to Michigan almost all the time.
On a side note...Mike Tirico was on ESPN 1000 here in Chicago yesterday afternoon, and they asked him about the whole approach of the Cubs firing Rick Renteria to get Joe Maddon. Tirico, unsolicited, went into talks about Michigan and how DB "resigning" was the way most sports works...a guy is told to resign or be fired, and some of the reasons behind DB being ousted (concussion, business approach, poor football results, upcoming election that people don't want to be tied to DB, etc.). It was pretty good.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
I agree, some people on here hate debate. If someone disagrees, they are wrong and out of touch, which totally defies the intellect of members on this board. There's a total intollerance for reasoned debate for some. In the end, the culture here silences the other side of the debate, making it look as though everyone agrees. The Brandon issue is a prime example.
Desmond said the same thing last night immediately following the announcemenet on Brandon. Herbstreit was not part of the segment.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:26 AM ^
In this case saying that Desmond is out of touch doesn't mean that he's wrong, it means that he is not on the same page as the majority of the fan-base. Implying that he was ran out purely based on the football team's record ignores a lot of the issues that the fans, students, and alumns were complaining about. The record of the team had something to do with it but, if it was purely that then I'm sure the fans would have been happy with a coaching change.
November 1st, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
Totally get it. The larger point is that I'm not so sure it's a "majority of the fanbase." The anti-Brandon camp just happens to have a larger stage than the pro-Brandon camp. Media targets the anti-Brandon group for comments; it's also the position taken by MGoBlog, so those in the pro-Brandon camp may not feel they can voice their support.
November 1st, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^
Who, other than people that directly worked for him, are/were in the pro-Brandon camp?
November 1st, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
Desmond Howard, lol, many athletes, the coaches, several donors, several of my friends, mentees and colleagues, my uncle. Need names?
November 1st, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
Your arguement is so classic of the myopia of an umpopular point of view. Wildly umpopular issue/candidate/idea/person is only perceived that way because the "silent majority" isn't as loud/organized/etc. It's simply not true in this case in this case either.
November 1st, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^
Well, no. Typically, those are folks that support the "wildly unpopular" issue, candidate or idea. I hold the "popular view." But I have spoken to students and alumns who supported DB; others were indifferent. Maybe your particular stance have blinded you to the fact that not everyone holds them and the extent to which there is some disagreement on the issue. You have no idea what the case is unless you have conducted a survey of a representative group and I'm confident you have not. Accept the limitations of your "data."
November 1st, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 11:06 AM ^
I was talking more about Lloyd but okay. Even so 4 seasons in 20 years with 2 losses or less is not really elite.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
Just stop with the strawman that Carr was forced out. CARR RESIGNED! (And it wasn't Resigned=fired a la DB). Carr wanted to retire the previous year and was talked into staying for one more.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
As evidenced my Mealer's text yesterday we "muggles" truly dont understand what's important and are, by the athlete's estimatiion, incapable of rendering a cogent thought on the matter. To them our opinions are about as insightful and relevant as my 10 year old's thoughts on global warming.
So it does not surprise me that a Michigan athlete would be unhappy that we "muggles" rose up and brought about change in something they think we have zero creadibility in. Sort of like how I would feel if the United States adopted it's official policy on global warming based on Mrs Tufts 4th grade class vote.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
You're totally overblowing the "muggles" thing. It is a term student-athletes refer to non-athlete students as ON CAMPUS. It fairly well known ON CAMPUS. It's a joke, with a bit of an edge. Not unlike the stereotypical terms applied to other groups ON CAMPUS.
In fact, students, both athletes and non-athletes, are probably laughing at you for getting so bent out of shape over it.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:52 AM ^
And I've never heard such a thing...
November 1st, 2014 at 11:03 AM ^
Well, it's obviously a thing. I won't detail my accounts with athletes who've used it, but Mealer's tweet is enough evidence that the term is used.
Do you hang out with athletes? Maybe it's not well-known across the whole campus community, but if you talk to any athletes, they'll have heard it.
And it's not like alllll athletes use it, but enough do.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:08 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^
It's because of the timing of it.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:30 AM ^
but because it was slandering said muggles, many of which probably follow Mealer. He didn't delete the tweet because he said muggles, its because he pissed off a lot of them
November 1st, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
I never said it was a term of endearment. I was actually going to compare it to "sorostitutes." That doesn't change the fact that a bunch of old guys are getting their knickers in a twist over dumb names that students call each other on campus.
November 1st, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
are refered to as jocks all the time, I don't recall panties getting twisted up about that. On the contrary, it is a term of derision commonly used by non-jocks who believe that if jocks don't like the term they can lose their jocks or suck eggs.
November 1st, 2014 at 12:22 PM ^
Exactly. This name calling based on clique affiliation has been going on since the beginning of time.
November 1st, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
November 1st, 2014 at 10:49 AM ^
I find it funny how the former athletes seem to think they are smarter than successful business people and captains of industry when it comes to evaluating performance. A large portion of the fans at the Stadium are alumni who are established and successful.
But hey go ahead and tell 500,000+ alumni around the country that you know better than them and call them names. The players are to close to the situation to really understand what has gone on here.
November 1st, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^
Captains of industry = no players
November 1st, 2014 at 10:34 AM ^
Oh my, this segment with the coach masks... Yeesh. Can't unsee.