Contrarian view of the GERG’s scheme
Pls don’t assume you know what I am writing and fire off a quick post so we can avoid the “did you read my post” replies. Thanks. Heads up, this is a longer post.
By the time your recruiting class gets into the mid-teens, it starts to shape up into a mini-version of your team just due to the numbers. I understand we are looking for “system guys”, but it you lined them all up I would really wonder what I am looking at. The answer is “dude, it’s the system, back off the coaches, they know what they are doing” and I do love the deathbacker (more for the name), but consider this:
1) The quick and spinner were originally rolled out to make best use of the “current talent”. It now seems to be a scheme to recruit for (2 already, 1 turned away, but we will really take one more ??).
2) GERG spent only 1 year at Texas.
3) GERG’s salary is very low in comparison other recent OC/DC hires (think Tennessee/Washington/USC).
4) We have seen the 3-4 under Herrmann and it obviously did not stick. It could have been the DC running it.
5) GERG could get 3 star talent (maybe not more) at SU to implement these concepts, I only have their 2007 Total Defense which was 111th.
6) If this is Deathbacker U, wouldn’t the great deathbackers flock here (maybe that is Wilkins, remains to be seen).
7) Big Ten tackles are fairly large and you can’t always run around them (case in point Woodley and Graham being able to stop the point of attack and are pretty damn good).
8) The better defenses in the Big Ten (I would consider OSU, PSU and Iowa) don’t use these variations. USC does which is a plus, but they are in a different conference.
I am not saying GERG cannot be successful, I would jump out of my skin at us having a dominant defense. It just raises somequestions when you look at the offer cannon’s targeting. Seriously, raise your hands if you saw the Holmes commit coming. I had never heard of the guy and yes he looks great on film. However, I lived in Dallas for 12 years, know of his high school, know the full court press the Big 12 does on that city and wonder why nobody else “found” this guy besides SMU/Harvard. This is now the “system” recruit which assumes the system works and the architect of the system is still around running it in a few years.
I am not on a ledge, just thinking this through.
Anyway, those of you who are expecting Robinson's defense to be #1 in the country are going to be disappointed. He has no track record, really, to show that he's capable of doing that.
However, can this defense be successful enough to win games once our offense gets going? Yes. I think that's the key point. We all want our defense to be the best, but the reality is, that's not very likely.
Also, if Robinson happens to leave and we revert to a standard 4-3, I think the personnel we're recruiting can make an easier adjustment back to a 4-3 than it was to move from a 4-3 to a 3-3-5 or a 4-3 under.
For example, I wouldn't have trusted Tim Jamison or Adam Patterson or Greg Banks to play OLB. However, I would trust Ken Wilkins or Craig Roh to be able to play DE.
Holmes didn't commit take 1 step back.
We haven't seen the D yet so getting 5 star death backers might be a tad premature. 2 steps from the ledge.
Bellichick, Cowher, Schembechler, Carroll, Parcells, Bear Bryant have used modified 3-4 alignments in the past I think it is a valid defensive concept. Plus it is not really a 3-4. Big steps way back.
If I hear 1 more thing about "Big 10 players or styles" I'm going to scream. Football is football. they have big tackles in the Big 12, SEC, NFC North, Big East Get in the elevator
Gerg left after 1 year in Texas for a head coaching job not because he was fired. Walk to the lobby
Gergs salary is meaningless Open the door
Syracuse's offense was worse than ours last year. so you can see what that does to a D. Also, he wasn't the D coordinator..big difference between head coach and d coordinator, ask Lloyd. Take a deep breath.
Ok now you are fine.....our D may suck a Gerg may be Joe Barry Jr., but your listed worries won't be the problem.
I agree with most of what you said. However, I do think the salary issue is semi-important. If somebody wants him where he can get more money, he could potentially leave in a year or two.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2008/11/su_fires_head_football_c…
Robinson had a 1.1 million dollar year left on his contract with Syracuse. I would think that his Michigan salary would be deducted from whatever his buy-out from Syracuse is and that Michigan will adjust his salary next year.
At least you used GERG an awful lot.
1) The quick and spinner were originally rolled out to make best use of the “current talent”. It now seems to be a scheme to recruit for (2 already, 1 turned away, but we will really take one more ??).
i think they originated because the dc likes the scheme, that's all
2) GERG spent only 1 year at Texas.
ok
3) GERG’s salary is very low in comparison other recent OC/DC hires (think Tennessee/Washington/USC).
true for all our coaches
4) We have seen the 3-4 under Herrmann and it obviously did not stick. It could have been the DC running it.
please dont make me list all the great teams over the years that used successful 3-4 defenses (which this really isnt anyway)
5) GERG could get 3 star talent (maybe not more) at SU to implement these concepts, I only have their 2007 Total Defense which was 111th.
the players at syracuse were very bad. i have no idea what they were rated
6) If this is Deathbacker U, wouldn’t the great deathbackers flock here (maybe that is Wilkins, remains to be seen).
everybody likes passrushers
7) Big Ten tackles are fairly large and you can’t always run around them (case in point Woodley and Graham being able to stop the point of attack and are pretty damn good).
all d-1 tackles are large
8) The better defenses in the Big Ten (I would consider OSU, PSU and Iowa) don’t use these variations. USC does which is a plus, but they are in a different conference.
usc also handily defeated osu and psu
BOOM. I think you just owned the OP.
pay is important for retention, a 3-4 scheme is not widely used in college and USC also does it with a team of 5* players so it would be hard to say they would "own" OSU/PSU with a bunch a 3* recruits
You're right, our defense will only be 3 star recruits. Guys like Graham, Martin, Van Bergen, Mouton, S. Brown, Cissoko, Warren, and Michael Williams probably won't see the field.
USC gets finishes usually in the top 3 and typically has the highest star rankings per player. It could be that they have better players and not a better scheme.
Van Bergen can see the field.
My feeling about Rodriguez's defensive philosophy (and we all know that RichRod does not really coach defense) pretty much since he arrived here and hired Schafer has been this: he would rather have a fast, aggressive defense that will possibly give up a big play or two, or maybe even three but will also make enough big plays to change a game. Almost the opposite of bend-but-don't-break. It could be a tight game, something like 21 all or maybe a one-score game in the 4th quarter and that hard-hitting, turnover-creating defense makes that big play (which it has been built to do) and the momentum turns at the right moment and Michigan's explosive offense is able to capatalize on that big turnover and win the game. I think that may be the image that RichRod has in his head for how he wants his defense to be, but not really an appropriate one to present to the media. It's just my opinion.
it not good to come out and say "Our D is going to stick you, be aggressive, create turnovers, make big plays, and put so much pressure on you that you fail, but at the same time give up a big play in return once in awhile.
Look at Michigans D in 2006. Harris, Woodly, Crable, Branch, TT, and all the CBs flew around and smacked people all year. They created sacks, INTs, FFs, pick 6s. But it finally caught up to them in the last 2 games.
And yes, I do realize that that 06 team had loads of NFL talent. But you can keep the same mentality of aggressiveness.
weren't DT's they were and are DE's ay M
This deathbacker hybrid won't be a DT either. Question is if this quick is big enough to stand up a tackle at the point of attack. We can't do that will the current players in those roles or current recruits due to their size at this time. Maybe after some serious weight gain.
They're weakside DE types. I don't know many weakside DEs who can stalemate a 315-lb. offensive tackle.
Anyone who runs a 3-4 Basicly uses a Deathbacker...The Steelers use Lamar Woodley. In a 3-4 your a linebacker who sometimes plays end. In this 4-3 your a End that sometimes plays linebacker. Greg came from the pros where everyone copies each other and he is using the same thing everyone else uses...also didn't Pete Carroll also coach in the pros? There defenses are similar...really...hmm that almost makes sense.
I'm sure if Tressel and Paterno would have coached in the NFL their scheme would mimic this one as well.
Football is a copy cat sport. For years, no one in the NFL was using the 3-4 except Pittsburgh. Then the Patriots. Now it's getting fashionable for obvious reasons (5 Super Bowl champions this decade.)
The 3-4 is not intrinsically weaker than the 4-3 in any respect. In the past, people have said that removing a large DL for a smaller LB will make you susceptible to the run. This is false (watch someone try and run on Pittsburgh.) I suspect RR wants to run the 3-4 because he's all about getting speed on the field. A well run 3-4 will be just as good as the players on the field. Even in the Big Ten.
Deathbacker is not going to become a Rivals recruiting position. You just try and get the biggest fastest LB you can (maybe giving the edge to fastest) and then use him according to his skill set. So is everyone else.
How long Robinson spent at Texas and what his salary is or what Hermann did is all beside the point. If Robinson is so good that someone wants to take him GREAT! RR can increase his salary or say "thanks for all you've done" at that point.
I don't get people that are concerned the players or coaches will be so good that they want to leave. Isn't that the point--to be really good?
The "deathbacker" is essentially James Hall in Lloyd's old 3-4. This isn't a revolutionary concept.
...but didn't Hall usually play from a 3-point stance? Not that his stance makes all the difference, but I just can't remember for sure... From what I remember of Texas's defense when Robinson was there, the "Deathbacker" was a stand-up guy.
IIRC correctly (which I definitely may not), he did some of both.
But Hall's "official" position was linebacker - they may have referred to him as a "Rush Linebacker". But still, doesn't the DE/LB guy who needs to be able to rush the QB and get out and cover sometimes sound somewhat similar?
Yeah, I know what you're saying. I just couldn't remember.