Coach Deion Sanders: "You can have someone's whole game plan... You've still got to stop it."
He believes that it is a slight advantage but not nearly as important as other sports like baseball. Knowing a certain pitch is coming is far more advantageous than knowing a particular play is coming (unless that play is a gadget play, of course).
Words in parenthesis are mine, not his.
More support from another former player who is also a current D1 coach. It's good that a guy with the profile of Coach Prime is saying these things and also not being anonymous about it. He might be the most high profile coach in America outside Harbaugh, Saban, and maybe a few others.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
What is Prime doing today? A recurring MgoBlog series. More relevant today than it typically is!
October 24th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
I don't want you to get a big head but I have wondered "what do NittanyFan and BuckeyeChuck think of all this"
October 24th, 2023 at 5:26 PM ^
Nittany Fan posted some completely reasonable takes last night. So of course I called him an asshole and told him we were going to beat PSU by 30 while slamming a beer.
Yesterday evening was a night I would rather forget.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:56 PM ^
Trying not to let me head get too big. :-)
To me, the ultimate question is -- did Michigan coaches beyond Stalions know about this? Everything, IMO, hinges on that.
If the answer is yes, and if I were the B1G commissioner, harsh penalties would be on the table. Part of my job as commissioner is to provide an equal-as-can-be on-the-field competitive environment for athletic match-ups.
Some non-equal things are unavoidable. Michigan inherently has millions of more dollars to hire coaches than Rutgers, for instance. But the "no going to live games to tape them" exists in the spirit of on-the-field equity. Both U-M and Rutgers have prescribed, equal methods in place already to get tape of each others' games. I wouldn't be happy with folks trying to subvert the spirit of equity, no matter how insignificant or marginal the advantage gained may be.
-----
Maybe self-righteous, but that's my opinion. If Franklin had a National Title contender this year and it was at risk because he was green-lighting assistant's taping Northwestern games --- I'd be irate and want to kick him in the nuts.
But come to think of it .......... I want to kick him in the nuts anyway. Still disgusted at Saturday's offensive offensive gameplan!
October 24th, 2023 at 7:05 PM ^
That is the central question. I cannot imagine that the Michigan coaches knew he was doing this. The risk-reward simply does not add up.
The ONLY caveat to that is that I think Harbaugh is insanely competitive, and is without question obsessive. If his compass became so distorted with a desire to beat OSU, I cannot rule it out.
However, Harbaugh rarely speaks without any equivocation like he did in the statement he released, so at this point I have to think it is highly unlikely the coaching staff knew.
I am guessing they thought Stalions was a very smart game film nerd and considered themselves lucky to have found him.
October 24th, 2023 at 7:09 PM ^
I'm more or less in agreement with you (provided there's not a reversal in this story and the stuff that looks true now continues to look true).
The only thing I'll say is I think the likelihood we'll ever know if this extended up the chain past him is probably pretty small.
I am annoyed, and frustrated. I'm borderline foaming at the mouth when I see the X# "so that's why Michigan beat us" take from OSU fans, but I don't know if they genuinely believe that or are just trolling because we gave them an embossed invitation to troll.
October 24th, 2023 at 7:11 PM ^
I think it’s a combination of both. But I think Michigan will clarify it for them in a month.
October 24th, 2023 at 7:20 PM ^
I'd be annoyed too. U-M can go 15-0, but the whispers will be there forever now --- both w/ the trolls and the more logically inclined.
You are also right - we'll never know now.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:39 PM ^
Besides tears of haters, which may sound like whispers, what would those whispers be if Michigan went 15-0?
"They would have never beaten Rutgers without cracking their codes"..."How was Michigan stealing signs at PSU when Stallions was suspended? Did Franklin forget to change the signs from last season or something?"...or "Ryan Day's pool boy told me that the whole Harbaugh family, I mean Jack, John, all of them, are sharing the same Netflix password?"
October 24th, 2023 at 7:19 PM ^
did Michigan coaches beyond Stalions know about this?
No idea how the NCAA views this, but the only thing that would change for me is who should be directly punished. If there are coaches that were directly involved, they should be hit with suspensions and show causes possibly, if that's deemed appropriate. I don't really see why that would determine whether or not there should be postseason bans or vacated wins. Maybe I could see it increasing a few recruiting restrictions and longer probation.
October 24th, 2023 at 8:08 PM ^
If Harbaugh (or Minter or Moore) knew what Stalions was up to and encouraged it, yes, they should be punished.
With the buying tickets in his own name, his history, etc. it seems far more likely this was an obsessed fan with a military intelligence background who volunteers for a few years, extremely dedicated and seems to know an awful lot, who kept coming up with good "intel" predicting opponent's behavior using his arcane unique methods, and eventually they gave him a job.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:05 PM ^
Are you really a Penn State fan who has been a member of this blog for more than 10 years? What the hell. Can I ask why?
October 24th, 2023 at 11:08 PM ^
I'm new to the blog so forgive me, did these two dudes actually create accounts on MGoBlog, paid the fee and everything, and in the name of Ohio State and Penn State? I'd have to assume they've already gotten a whole lot of heat over the years.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:01 PM ^
Damn, now I have to like Deion again
/s
October 24th, 2023 at 5:06 PM ^
It is funny that a bunch of media types are freaking out about this and a number of former players and coaches are basically saying it's trivial and don't get why people are freaking out because it's a pretty common practice.
My assumption is that a lot of sports media types always dreamed of covering more "important" topics than sports, and so when something even close to intriguing rolls around they all think they're Woodward and Bernstein and try to out-react each other. It's why it was funny seeing a bunch of reports online, say, reposting that Schiano video and then quickly scrubbing it when even Rutgers came out and said he was referring to the refs in that game.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:04 PM ^
Not to mention the Zapruder film segments of the 2022 M-OSU game floating around today.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:47 PM ^
Where OSU scored on a pitch and catch TD with Michigan’s pants around their ankles.
They are posting EXCULPATORY evidence that is somehow “strengthening” the case.
What in the actual hell is happening and when are people going to stop acting completely irrational?!?!
October 24th, 2023 at 10:38 PM ^
And they are doing it with a video taken from their sidelines pointed directly at our head coach and defensive coordinator which I'm sure happened by accident by no one related to their program.
You know, something actually illegal during a game.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:32 PM ^
Let me get this straight. Someone paid for tickets to our game and took pictures of Stalion on our sideline? What else did they take pictures of again?
October 24th, 2023 at 6:17 PM ^
My assumption is that a lot of sports media types always dreamed of covering more "important" topics than sports
This is not my take. Most sports reporters are drawn to cover sports because they like sports. But they want to be taken seriously as journalists, especially by their news journalist peers, who look down on them.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:50 PM ^
This is a good take, and is sort of what I'm trying to say. They want to cover things that are "important" and sports aren't viewed as such by some in the industry and so you see an overreaction here when something even sort of controversial happens.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:20 PM ^
Many of them give me the impression that they most certainly don't like sports.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:08 PM ^
This has been my thought on this the whole time. I don't care how many "advantages" you may or may not have. If you don't execute on the "advantage", it isn't an advantage.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:09 PM ^
It will help to hear Seth break down some of the real implications here, and in time I hope that the people who have insight will do it. A lot is going to boil down to just how sophisticated and clever coordinators are, and maybe how mature their teams are. A veteran team like Michigan is putting a ton of stuff on film for other teams to have to contend with in their planning. Seth is showing us every week how the plays we run can and will be built upon further, tweaked to further confuse PSU and OSU in the last two regular season games. Younger teams who are just getting formations and plays down will be more predictable.
My sense of Stalions trying to bring more science, history, theory, data to bear is that he might have made coaches smile a little, or encourage him to run with it. I think it's possible that we already know the nature of both the rule-breaking and how much of what was taking place was what everyone else does--it's quite possible that if any coach was watching they might have thought it didn't amount to a hill of beans, or that he was trying to bring a little more professionalism to what was already being done. The fact that Michigan is already doing all these things better is a source of anger and fear. A beat-down for Ryan Day in November may well put his job in jeopardy; damn right he would like to get out in front of that.
No way, IMO, are we not going to get slapped. But it will be down the road, and not change much. What WILL have happened is a lot more cynical people and enemies of Michigan will have sullied us a little.
October 24th, 2023 at 8:43 PM ^
Do you not think the university is going to suspend Harbaugh this season? Honest question
October 25th, 2023 at 11:03 AM ^
Would be unprecedented, right? Most people in the know say they haven't even cited us yet, and then there are set times for response. No.
October 25th, 2023 at 4:56 PM ^
I think it will depend on the NCAA visit later this week. “IF” (and it is an if) they bring evidence Harbaugh was aware, Ono and Warde will likely take action they think help protect the University. At any rate we will know soon.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:10 PM ^
When the season began, my view was to watch what happens in Boulder from the sideline - my phrase was - "I don't have a horse in the race."
Part of my perspective remains the same - "not having a horse". One aspect of my approach was the talent level in Colorado and game planning / scheming / execution against teams with equal or higher caliber talent. There's been a lot of success in Boulder - and, a good part of the season yet to play. This being said - he's direct and seems to state his opinion - which I respect / admire.
At Jackson State - he said - "Why do we play these teams that give us $ 300K for an almost guaranteed loss, when it costs more than that to travel with the team, band, etc.?" I respect that opinion.
His post game conferences have been candid - and, usually - refreshing.
Lastly, he made a statement which might yield different opinions. So, what did he say? "You will stand during the national anthem."
It's going to be interesting to see what Colorado does in their last five games - which are: at UCLA, hosting Oregon State, hosting Arizona, at Washington State, and at Utah.
My interest level hasn't changed much - but, I do wish him and the Buffs well.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
Sounds like Prime has a Connor Stalions of his own. 😂
October 24th, 2023 at 5:18 PM ^
He must have been sick the day he was supposed to scout Stanford.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:31 PM ^
Clearly Stanford changed their signals at halftime.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:26 PM ^
He used to until he transferred.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:27 PM ^
Everyone has a Connor Stalions of their own
October 24th, 2023 at 5:54 PM ^
This is the bottom line.
The NCAA is using these archaic rules that nobody follows to "stick it" to Michigan.
B1G is also involved.
Michigan should hire their own investigators and lawyer up. But they won't.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:55 PM ^
If they haven’t at this point they are 1) absolutely insane or 2) actively complicit. (Which, sadly, I’m not ruling out).
October 25th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
Agreee. Why would Warde not have Tom Mars or a comparable attorney on a plane the minute they knew this was going public?
October 24th, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^
There would be many, many things that would upset me or embarrass me as a fan if they happened in our athletic department.
Nothing about this so far bothers me much or changes my opinion of the Michigan program. I like the team, the staff, and how they represent the University of Michigan. That would be true even if we weren't beating the snot out of every opponent, which I highly enjoy as well.
EDIT: In other words, pay the man and get his deal done. The NCAA will do what they do. If they overstep, push back. Back to business.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:37 PM ^
Agree in full.
Pay the man his money.
Go Blue.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^
In Ryan Day’s defense, they do have a special play where the D-Line splits, leaving a large hole that is supposed to cause a running back to stop and say “this ain’t right”. Both times they called it, Edwards knew it was coming, didn’t fall for the trick, and kept running.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:40 PM ^
I love that play... and, appreciate Donovan's intelligence to "not fall for it".
October 24th, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^
Notice how former players, coaches etc keep saying this is a steaming pile of shit, but people on Twitter, media clickbaiters and concern trolls believe it's all a travesty? There are people out there that believe the earth is flat and Urban Meyer is headed to East Lansing. Don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:14 PM ^
Harbaugh seems to like Deion, and Deion seems to like Harbaugh. I feel like there's a buddy cop movie script here that practically writes itself.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:17 PM ^
I was picturing a court case in front of Judge Judy over stealing signs.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:38 PM ^
Maybe they're friends? Or at least have a mutual respect for each other. They both did guest spots on Aril$$, so they have that in common.
Personally, I respect anyone willing to speak their mind without fear of repercussions from the outrage mob.
October 24th, 2023 at 6:20 PM ^
I think Saban already has that role, sorry.
October 24th, 2023 at 7:26 PM ^
Maybe Jim and Coach Prime should do Aflac commercials together…
October 24th, 2023 at 5:18 PM ^
Yeah, though he's completely wrong, of course. Knowing that Nolan Ryan is throwing a fastball is far different from being able to hit it. Whereas, in football, knowing the upcoming play is a screen pass or an off-tackle run or a deep bomb makes a massive difference in how you set up your defense.
Let's not be disingenuous. Now we're going to pretend it doesn't even help to know exactly what play another team is going to run?
October 24th, 2023 at 5:24 PM ^
I would imagine most of the time, yes the team knows what play is coming. You ever watch Tony Romo call a game? He’s an announcer with probably a fraction of the knowledge on a specific team and even he gets the play calls right approx. 75% of the time.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:29 PM ^
It definitely helps, but with all due respect I'm going to trust Deion Sanders' expertise on baseball vs football more than anybody not named Bo Jackson.
October 24th, 2023 at 5:40 PM ^
That isn’t what is illegal. People keep misconstruing the issue here. It’s not the theft of signals that is the problem. It is the means used to acquire the signals and data that is at issue here.
Read the bylaw.