CC: What if Brandon survives?
Slow Friday, so I thought I would throw out this topic for some general discussion / speculation:
Up until now, I think that many of us have assumed that DB would be fired at some point soon. Perhaps not this week, but certainly in time for the new AD to fire Hoke and bring in a new head coach. And it is still a possibility that DB will, in fact, be fired by President Schlissel. But, the MGoBlue.com press release about DB working closely with CSG to address issues and the announced cut in studen ticket prices call that assumption into question. If DB was going to be fired, it seems as if Schliss wouldn't allow him to take this public role. So, we need to consider that he may survive.
Which leads to my question. If DB manages not to get canned, how does that realistically impact whether Hoke is retained? Let's assume for the moment that we finish the season at 7-6 (we beat Indiana, Northwestern and Maryland, but lose to our rivals, make some crappy bowl and muddle to a win). What happens?
My personal view: If Hoke loses to both rivals, he is gone, even if DB is making the decision. The fanbase discontent would be insane. DB, himself at the center of some of that discontent, would do what just about any political person would do, and try to place the blame on someone else while at the same time painting himself as part of the solution by firing Hoke and bringing in a big name coach.
For DB, if he plays it right, this could actually save him. Sure, many current students and alum hate the guy. And while some have principled reasons for doing so (ticket prices, commercialization, etc.), if we are being honest, many want him gone because the football team sucks. If Brandon were to go out and somehow convince a Harbaugh / Miles level coach to come here (while cutting ticket prices and stopping some of the noodle, skywriting, special K stuff that has annoyed some of the fansbase), I am pretty sure the Fire DB chants would quickly end, or be reduced to a small minority of the fanbase. So, I guess my short answer is that unless he beats MSU and/or OSU, Hoke is gone.
What say you, MGoBloggers?
October 17th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
was the one who started the facilities renovation and practice development center.....
October 17th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^
Except in business the successor finishes what the predecessor started. The fact that you and others continue to belittle Brandon's legitimate accomplishments --fundraising/marketing and with it providing means to every program through facilities, scholarships, and coach salaries--demonstrates your and others' inability to listen to any reason whatsoever.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^
At a place like Michigan, increasing revenue isn't a difficult task.....but it will be if DB's hand picked head football coach continues to shit the bed. I don't give him any credit for the easy stuff, but I do for the hard stuff of which I can only think of 2 things he handled well.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
Bill Martin's hand-picked football coach continued to shit the bed. According to your reasoning, this would mean that it should have been hard for DB to raise revenue. Are you therefore saying that DB did a tremendous job raising revenue? Maybe you ought to give credit where it is due--DB hired a bad football coach but he has brought in a lot of revenue and done a tremendous amount for other varsity programs.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
"According to my reasoning, this would mean it should have been hard for DB to raise revenue"
Not really. He fired RRod after 3 short years and promised to turn it around. What was viewed as a short term problem is turning into a very long term problem under his watch so the benefit of the doubt he got back then is going away. Because, at some point, negative results impact revenue and after 7 years of mediocrity with 1 good year sprinkled in for good measure, we are FINALLY reaching that point just now.
The only thing I give credit for is the handling of stretch-gate and how he removed LC from the AD graciously. I firmly believe that any competent AD in the country could have raised just as much revenue as DB during his tenure and I believe someone posted a graph that proved that very point not long ago on this very site.
October 17th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
"You think the reason Jim Harbaugh isn't here is because DB might sit in on his meetings or micromanage? Think again. If Jim wanted to coach here, DB would bring him in and Jim would keep DB out of his business. Jim isn't here because Palo Alto>Ann Arbor. Because of the NFL. Because the Big Ten is a garbage conference. Because a lot of reasons that don't have anything to do with DB. "
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
If Dave Brandon stays, the #1 reason Jim Harbaugh won't be our coach next year is because Dave Brandon is the AD. Listen to Bacon's numerous interviews saying this blatently. Listen to Sam Webb. There is no chance we'd get a Harbaugh or even offer Miles if DB is still AD for the next coaching search.
A micromanaging AD is a HUGE deal for a football coach. Bacon's said numerous times that when he was interviewing Meyer, Fitzgerald, and O'Brian for his latest book, the first thing they all asked him is if it was actually true that Brandon sat in on Sunday film sessions. He'd say yes, and they'd all just shake their heads and laugh. Those guys would never coach under such bs, and neither would other high level guys.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
Who revoked Bacon's press pass? DB. Who is saying Harbaugh won't come if DB is here? Bacon. What evidence does Bacon have of Harbaugh not wating to coach under DB? None. What evidence is there of a high profile coach coaching under DB? John Beilein.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
he doesn't sit in on baskteball film studies. Plus he also didn't completely bungle a response to a basketball player's concussion while leaving JB ot to dry.
Totally different situations.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^
Well, John Bacon did go to grade school, high school, and college with Jim Harbaugh. He also speaks to him regularly and knows a lot more about his motives than anyone else in the media. He's never been one to spew BS and everyone generally trusts what he says, and he has said that they won't come under Brandon. I have way more reason to believe him than you.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^
And I speak to Obama regularly because I went to grade school and high school with him. Another example of stating conjecture as fact. Nicely done.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^
If he goes on the radio and says he's recently spoken to Jim, then he has. He would never risk his career of respected journalism to make up something like that. You sound like a goddamn Brandon apologist.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
So you are saying that Bacon stated on the radio that he recently spoke to Jim, and Jim said he would not take the Michigan position if DB were the AD?
Also, I'm not a Brandon apologist. I think Brandon has done some bad things and done many good thigns. I actually think he has done more good than bad, but that is my opinion. Some people weigh things differently. I take issue with the fact that you call me a "goddamn Brandon apologist" for poking holes in some of your statements. Just because I want to take an objective view rather than a groupthink one should not make me a "goddamn Brandon apologist."
October 17th, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^
I haven't seen a single hole poked in my statements by you, but I guess that's just gonna be your opinion no matter what anyone says at this point.
And no, I'm not going just off of just what Bacon says on the radio, though he has said publically that none of our top three candidates (if that's H/H/M) would come under Brandon. I speak and email with him fairly frequently beyond his media appearances, and he's said to me flat out multiple times that these guys have told him they absolutely would not come under Brandon. I'm not just guessing here, this is straight from the guys we want to be the next coach of our team (according to Bacon at least, who I trust not to outright lie). He also said that they all, but Jim and Miles especiialy, would strongly consider (not certainly take, but strongly consider) coming back to Michigan if Bates or Manuel were the AD. They still bleed blue, but Brandon is simply too much to overcome for those guys right now.
This all should be a mute point anyways, as it seems like Brandon will probably be let go, but we simply won't get them without a new AD.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^
Of course you haven't seen a whole poked in your statements, otherwise you wouldn't have made them originally.
And of course, taking you at your word that you spoke with Bacon, Bacon didn't say that Harbaugh would take the Michigan position if it becomes available because he knows that Harbaugh will not. He is likely dangling it out there ("Harbaugh won't come to Michigan if Brandon is here") like a carrot to fuel peoples' ire against DB, knowing that Harbaugh will not come even if DB is gone.
Don't get me wrong. I'd love to believe that Harbaugh would be our next coach if we got rid of DB. That is why implying that he would works.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^
"And of course, taking you at your word that you spoke with Bacon, Bacon didn't say that Harbaugh would take the Michigan position if it becomes available because he knows that Harbaugh will not. He is likely dangling it out there ("Harbaugh won't come to Michigan if Brandon is here") like a carrot to fuel peoples' ire against DB, knowing that Harbaugh will not come even if DB is gone."
This is literally the opposite of what he has told me/continues to say. And it's not that I "spoke" with Bacon, I speak with him a few times a month, and much more frequently than that over the past couple weeks. He's said there's a more than fair chance we'd land Jim if Brad Bates came calling. Jim Harbaugh still absolutely bleeds maize and blue, his roots are here, this is his home, and he would love to see Michigan turned around, potentially under his tutelage. He's told Bacon directly that he'd be interested in talking to people within the Athletic Department about the Michigan job if it became available under a different AD. That's not guessing. He might come under someone else, but WILL NOT come under Brandon.
Speaking of poking holes in arguments, though, I do find it funny that you take snippets of people's statements, make a leaping assumption about what someone else meant, and then project it as fact. That's not how things work.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
I said "He [Bacon] is likely dangling it out there . . ." The purpose of the word "likely" is so as to not make a "leaping assumption."
What I am not doing in my argument: telling people that I talk with someone regularly and treating that information as gospel. Example: "Hey, Umross15, I speak with Jim Harbaugh regularly and he said that he would be more than happy to work under DB if he offered."
Put a quote on here that Bacon has said publicly. Then let's discuss. More likely than not, it is a carrot to dangle out to others to further incite them against DB. Something along the lines of, "Hey guys, there is a chance we get Harbaugh if DB isn't AD!" And there is also a chance Kate Upton leaves Verlander for me.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:35 PM ^
Off the top of my head, here's a toledo radio appearance he did where he says he thinks one of the Harbaughs or Miles will be our coach next year. Start around the 16:30 mark.
He's made similar statements plenty of times publically.
October 17th, 2014 at 4:15 PM ^
Thanks for the link. After starting from 15:00 minute mark, it sounds like Bacon says we are going to go for an established head coach inside the family, and he bets it will likely be Les or one of the Harbaughs. And he said "we don't know who is going to make that call anyway, we don't know who is going to be the AD." So I'm not certain how that translates to "Harbaughs will not come if DB is AD."
Again, thank you for providing the link. Please inform if I am missing something.
October 17th, 2014 at 4:21 PM ^
Well that statement of his was more pointed at your assertation that you thought that Bacon thought that there was no chance of Harbaugh coming no matter who is AD. Just today on WTKA he said that Harbaugh, Harbaugh, and Miles won't come under Brandon, outright.
Link? Link: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=901&c=4701&f=3492723
Start at 7:45
October 17th, 2014 at 4:33 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 4:46 PM ^
I listend to the whole interview. This is why you source check in law. The source doesn't state what you say it states. You say it stands for the proposition that "[Bacon] said that Harbaugh, Harbaugh, and Miles won't come under Brandon." Bacon comes nowhere close to stating that. Bacon says that many people (agents and others) think DB cannot bring in a high profile coach and that some coaches (Urban Meyer, being one of them, our rival coach) have said "are you serious" when told that DB sits in on film.
No offense, but this is the reason why many people are running around the internet saying that Bacon said Harbaugh won't come if DB is here. You really need to accurately quote sources. It does the entire community a disservice, as many start running with something thinking it is fact.
I'm not saying that people should not be conerned if Bacon hears that some people think DB can't bring in a high profile coach. But I am saying that it is improper to use that source to say that Bacon says "DB can't bring in Harbaugh," or to say that "Harbaugh says he won't come if DB is here."
October 17th, 2014 at 5:03 PM ^
You're really grasping now. He literally mentions Bob Stoops, Jim Harbaugh, and Les Miles, and then says: "Right now, trust me, the big name coaches are not going to come for Dave Brandon. I've heard this from too many people, agents included as well as the search committees."
That's a direct quote from him today, and is enough evidence for me.
October 17th, 2014 at 5:13 PM ^
Not what he said, bud. But keep changing others' lanauge to suit your position. I'll let others who listen to the interview affirm my position.
P.S. It really reflects poorly on the university community to act without integrity. Misquoting people, or mischaractrizing their language, is acting without integrity.
October 17th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^
I mean...my quote is exactly what he said, verbatum. So I don't know where your'e coming from anymore. Not that it matters, I think your hundred point hit in this thread says what most people think about your take on this.
October 17th, 2014 at 6:59 PM ^
Why don't you two just fuck, and get it over with?!
October 17th, 2014 at 5:26 PM ^
Man, I think it's probably time for you to take a few plays off.
October 17th, 2014 at 7:16 PM ^
gremlin, you are why we can't have nice things.
and by "we," I mean humanity
October 17th, 2014 at 8:57 PM ^
Man Its claustrophobic in this tiny box
October 18th, 2014 at 11:15 AM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^
Who hired Beilein? I thought it was B. Martin in 2007 and DB didn't ascend to AD until 2010. Brandon can't really claim Beilein as one of his own, he inherited him.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
JB could have left MIchigan if he wasn't getting support from the DB. DB could have fired JB. JB could have not come out and publicly supported DB.
DB is responsible for his poor Hoke hire. You can use your argument to say that DB is not responsible for hiring JB, is responsible for hiring Hoke, and therefore should not be responsible for hiring the next head football coach. But you can't extend that argument broadly to suggest that DB has not provided JB with everything he needs to be successful here.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^
"But you can't extend that argument broadly to suggest that DB has not provided JB with everything he needs to be successful here."
I didn't say that.....all I said is he can't point to JB and say that JB's success is a result of his own tenure as AD. They are coincidental, not causal, relationships. Unless you are saying that DB has some unique qualities as AD that would have been absent for JB's tenure if someone else where the AD....then you might have an argument.....but I don't see what DB has done so differently that wouldn't have also been in place with another AD.
October 17th, 2014 at 2:29 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^
Because coachs who have turned a program around can demand a high paying position elsewhere in the market?
October 17th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 3:22 PM ^
You are unreasonably stupid.
October 17th, 2014 at 6:38 PM ^
He is a Gremlin after all.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:55 PM ^
How much does DB pay you to spew this stuff? Or are you related to him in some way? The revenues DB has raised have been along the same trend the AD was headed in- see Brian's post yesterday. John U. Bacon's a relatively reliable source. Why would he make up all of this stuff- about the other coaches laughing in disbelief, about Harbaugh, about what his sources tell him- just to troll DB? Or, to put it differently, there's no evidence that I've ever seen that Bacon has an agenda against DB and puts out false information about DB. Quite the contrary.
So, it seems that because Beilein allegedly likes DB....then....DB shouldn't lose the job he is screwing up royally? I mean, wouldn't any competent AD candidate do the things from a fundraising standpoint that DB does? I guess I just don't get the myopic view of Brandon you seem to espouse with incredible vigor.
October 17th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 4:49 PM ^
What evidence is there of a high profile coach coaching under DB? John Beilein.
John Beilein is an amazing coach and Michigan is lucky to have him... but he isn't a "high profile" coach.
October 17th, 2014 at 7:04 PM ^
It depends on your definition of "high-profile". If you define it as elite, then he is. On the Xs and Os, JB can go toe to toe with the best of them. He's like Dantonio in a sense: he doesn't always get the 5 stars, but he does more with less (i.e. Trey and Timmy, Novak, etc). He has a system and he runs it like a well oiled machine.
Now if you define it to mean highly sought after for other jobs, constantly in the media, coaching team USA, etc. then no, but that's just his personality. Within the profession though, he's highly respected.
Basically, what I'm saying is, I have a man crush on JB.
October 21st, 2014 at 3:07 PM ^
October 17th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
We know that Bacon believes that, but he could be wrong. He certainly has his reasons to want Brandon out.
October 17th, 2014 at 4:54 PM ^
the perception of those like you and particularly Gremlin that he has it out for Brandon, Bacon has all the more reason to be circumspect and correct about what he does say on this matter. He's a professional who doesn't want a perceived vendetta to taint his reputation. A reputation based on having reliable sources and being correct way more often than not.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh has made it pretty clear he is an ultra-competitive guy. People he loves (his brother) and hates (Pete Carroll) have a Super Bowl, and all evidence is that he wants one.
If SF doesn't win one this year, it seems he will be fired (due to issues with the front office). Harbaugh will then have his pick of NFL jobs, such as Oakland, Miami, and perhaps both New York jobs.
Unless Jim wins a Super Bowl this year AND decides to go out "on top" (seems very, very unlikely to me), he won't be coming to Michigan, regardless of whether DB is here. Why would Jim? Because he played here 30 years ago? He hasn't (with the huge exception of Bo) exactly expressed love with the program since then.
October 17th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
The reality is, who the fuck knows? The Bacon and Webb rumors increase the probability that DB's presence prevents Harbaugh from coming from like 50% to 55%. There is absolutely no certainty of anything, and we're just along for the ride.
October 17th, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^
I just don't see any way he comes here because its a major risk for him. If he comes here and can't turn this tire fire around (which will be no easy feat even for the best coaches out there), there is a chance that he would never be able to get back to an NFL HC position. Then he's screwed. He can go to another NFL team for another 4-5 years. Then maybe after that he would come back to college but I just don't see the risk/reward paying off by coming back to college when you can go anywhere you want in the NFL.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
I agere with all of that, but it doesn't relate to whether the presence of DB is the reason Harbaugh won't come, which was what my comment was about.
October 17th, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^
I would say it is pretty firmly established when John Bacon repeats it every time it is brought up to him. And not just that it is his feeling; he states that multiple agents, coaches, and other "people in the know" have told him point-blank: no top coach is interested in working for Dave Brandon. He repeated it again this morning on WTKA.
Bacon isn't just going to spew that kind of hard-line talk. His future credibility depends on it. If he draws this line in the sand, and Brandon walks right past it by pulling in a Harbaugh or Miles, then Bacon loses his status as an insider and expert. For a journalist, that is more important than losing his press pass to Michigan events.