The other thread is getting too long to dig through and there is new information out. The official report is a dislocated shoulder with the MRI results coming this morning. A dislocated shoulder on a non contact throw sounds like doom for Miller's season. Get healthy and have a long successful career in the pros Braxton.
Braxton Injury- Day 2
If this is true then the UM/MSU game just became the biggest game in the conference this year.
While I hope you're right, this is a very shortsided perspective. OSU still boasts arguably the best DL in the nation and is talented on offense. Urban Meyer made Tim Tebow look like an all world QB. I bet they are going to be fine on offense, not as good but still just fine.
How does their DL personnel compare to last year? Cuz I don't recall them having much success against our offense last year.
Their DL was pretty damn good last year, but young too. Consider: Bosa was a true freshman and Spence and Washington were in their 2nd year out of high school. When you add normal progression for young guys like that, plus about 60 lbs between them, to Bennett who may be the best DT in the country this year, it gets really scary. They couldn't really use Washington as much last season because he was too small to be a 3-tech, so they had straight pluggers like Joel Hale with them.
Their defense still has major issues/questions in the secondary, and lost their best LB by far. And they have a similar situation on the OL as us, and return virtually zero of their production on offense if Braxton is out.
I'm not saying that their offense will be a tire fire, but it could look pretty ugly for a while. I do think they will be OK, but I doubt very much that they make it to the conference championship game without Braxton.
Decker did well enough as a starter, and Elflein played well when forced into action. Beyond that, they have guys who didn't have to play and may or may not be ready for B1G competition. In contrast, we have guys who either struggled (except for arguably Glasgow) or couldn't beat out the guys who struggled.
That said, I agree with your basic take. Their DL should be formidable, but they have a lot of question marks almost everywhere else.
that they still have lots of talent, and still will be good, the one dimension that's the hardest to control and the hardest to plan for (Miller's running ability) is most likely gone. That makes preparation a lot easier and their offensive game plan more predictable.
This is not debatable. I still think Meyer is a good enough coach to find ways to get this offense rolling without the help of a mobile QB.
but this is where you and I diverge in the woods. Seems like the mobile QB is his signature and having to change gears this close to the start of the season...it may take a while to get the offense rolling, is all I'm saying. We'll see though. Now is where we'll see if he truly is as gifted as they think he is.
What I should have clarified was if they can make it past Virginia Tech in week 2 they will have until November 8th to figure it out, where I believe Urbz is good enough to get something rolling.
Miller's replacement would likely be JT Barrett, who was a 4-star "athlete" recruit. He's plenty mobile. Cardale Jones is also a mobile quarterback, even he might be seen running the wrong direction.
He didn't come here to play compass.
Tim Tebow was an all world college qb. Pretty much would have succeeded anywhere.
I believe this is incredibly debatable. Am I going to spend hours doing it no. Just think of any college system that emulates a pro-system. Ask Tim Tebow to make the throws that AJ McCarron had to make at Alabama, not going to happen. Tim Tebow was a product of his environment and surrounded by loads of talent on offense.
MSU is big, no doubt. OSU is never second fiddle IMO and i don't care who their QB is.
I do wish the kid well, tho. That really sucks for him and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
Yeah, I'm encouraged for Michigan's chances this season. And I'm pleased that OSU may have a down year.
But I feel really bad for Braxton. That truly sucks. Hope he makes a full recovery.
The Tebow argument is a bit stale. He wasn't the first and won't be the last athlete that will be great in college only to suck in the pros. Why does Meyer get credit for that?
I think offense for them becomes a serious question without Miller. It's easy to assume an offense is going to reload when you return a senior heisman candidate at QB. But take him away and the losses of your top two running backs, your top receiver, and damn near your entire line start to catch up.
Sure, it is obvious that they have some talent based both on recruiting stars and based on onfield performance. Guys like Elliot, Wilson, Smith and Heuerman. And Urban Meyer is too good of a coach for the offense to completely implode. But a guy like Braxton Miller papers over a lot of question marks that now come to the forefront.
Don't forget they need to replace 4 on the o-line. They could have some challenges this year. It's still Ohio and they do get to play us at the end of the season when they gain experience.
Tim Tebow was an All World college QB. Remember what happened to Florida the year after he left? Urban is not successful with just anyone under center.
at the thought of going after an inexperienced quarterback and/or a Braxton Miller with what will likely at best be a bad arm.
Assuming Miller is lost for the year, by the time The Game rolls around, Ohio's starting QB will have a full year of starting under his belt. Not the same as all conference three year starter, but still something to consider.
They have two you stud recruits dying to prove themselves. They'll miss Braxton but they aren't doomed. I remember being excited in 2001 because some scrub named Craig Krenzel had to start against UM. After every 1st down I was like "WTF". We lost.
OSU's schedule is TERRIBLE. Tire fire offense = 9-3
Lol! Man... yeah like a road game against OSU and the nation's best D line will be a gimme... Ohio did quite well last year when Miller was hurt. Sleeping on them now is not wise.
Sounds like he pretty much threw his arm off of his body.
2. Source: Miller appeared to dislocate his throwing shoulder. Right elbow to left hip, like a pitcher. He laid on the field for 5+ minutes.
— Patrick Maks (@maksimuspatrick) August 19, 2014
(still don't believe everything seen on Twitter, though don't have any reason to doubt this guy's credibility except that I've never heard of him)
and he dislocated his shoulder on a throw as described, that's devastating. You can come back from a dislocated shoulder caused by a tackle or falling hard on your side w/o surgery. I don't know if I've ever heard of a pitcher or QB dislocating their shoulder on a non-contact throw and rest/rehab being all that's needed.
Hope the kid has a full recovery, though it sounds as if it will be lengthy.
a terrifying injury. Only in that the simple motion caused sever damage. . . Chalk this up as a terrible shame. Young men shouldn't be going through this kind of trouble. Especially when exhibiting so much promise. . .
So, what do we know about JT Barrett (Miller's likely replacement)? Also, this moves Cardale "We Ain't Come Here To Play School" Jones up to #2 on the depth chart, no?
Sure, Ohio State’s Heisman Trophy-hopeful could be sidelined for the season, but I’d rather watch Cardale Jones or JT Barrett than Devin Gardner.
I know I know, I'm starting to obsess with 11 Warriors. But this is pure gold.
they will get their wish. But I guaran-damn-tee, that if DG was on their team, they'd be singing a different tune. Thank goodness he's on our team instead. EDIT: At least he had the proper use of the word 'than' instead of 'then'
I ain't come to play behind DG.
Careful what you wish for, Ohio.
In last years game Devin went 32/45 for 451 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INTs plus a rushing TD. That's probably a top 10 performance ever by a Michigan QB vs OSU
But sure, I bet Cardale Jones could do better
I think that's 2nd or 3rd best performance by a Michigan QB... ever
Not to mention DG did that behind the tire fire O line... It'd have been nice to be Miller piling up stats behind that cushy running game Ohio had last year with Hyde...
DG > Miller by a long shot, with the only possible edge to Miller being a slightly better juker on the run.
Braxton Miller is bette than DG. Not by a ton, but he is.
But that wasn't what the poster said. The poster said Barrett and Jones were better than DG, which is just ridiculous.
I would say it is contending for a #1 spot, broken foot and all.
Can we play them week 1 instead?
Stop it Dave.
We've already been through this multiple times. Michigan plays OSU on the last day of the regular B1G season and will always play them then. Not in October and definitely NOT at the beginning of the season.
Sheesh - you'd think he'd let this one go already.
Let us start this Tuesday off right
Every time I see this gif I'm shocked that Miller held onto the ball.
I'm surprised he got up
...the GIF ends one second too early! I rather want to see him hit the turf.
The best part is when Clark turns him over and stares him down.
I'd rather see Clark jump up, get back to the line and do it again the next play.
And I wonder why Clark wouldn't strip the ball! Looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Every time I see this hit I want to scream, "JUST PUNCH THE BALL OUT!!!"
The longer version shows Clark hesitate for a split second, like he anticipates a juke - or can't believe Miller is unaware. After hours of watching the gif, I sincerely believe Clark would have ended Miller if not for that hesitation.
I asked Frank if he dreamt of that hit. His response, "Nope. I dream of hitting him harder." Unfortunately, it would appear that another hit will only live on in Frank's dreams.
and launch by Frank on that play..... you know Braxton was hurting after that hit....Rivalries they are the stuff that legends are made of.
I've probably seen that gif a hundred times now between highlights, gifs, etc. and I still cannot believe he didn't fumble.
As I type now I am watching the gif and am still amazed he held onto the ball
Wow, the lying on the field for five minutes is a new, not good wrinkle. Does Bowserman still have any eligibility left?
Did he learn that from Aaron Craft?
Seriously, I wish him a quick recovery and as someone who has dislocated both shoulders while playinig football, he won't be able to throw ten feet for a while. Best of luck to him and if nothing else, the CFL would love to have him...they collect former Ohio quarterbacks...see Troy Smith.
Hated rival and all, I don't know that we need daily updates. There is a line there somewhere.
Hypocritical aside: Vegas has frozen all OSU related betting.
And will conclude today. There will be no more "daily reports".
This is just a clean-up thread because yesterday's turned into a mess. Braxton's injury is far more relevant to our coming season than news about Joe Mixon, Johnny Manziel, Doug Fister, or Hawaii football. The fact that we're eager for news about the best player in our conference doesn't mean that we're falling into Sparty-level obsession about our rivals.
I was wondering last night if Eleven Warriors would have crashed if not for all the Michigan fans who visited. Hell, I wonder if Eleven Warriors would have crashed if not for the 20 million times that I tried to visit.
Best comment on elevenwarriors:
when a player goes on scholarship? I'd think there would have to be something in writing when a scholarship is accepted, similar to when an NFL contract is signed, given that injury reports are mandated by the NFL.
I wish Braxton best of luck with the recovery and his future...
I am just not sold that braxton's absence will spell doom for the oh st season..
their backup qb's are quite talented (even though I didnt realize that the guiton guy is gone) ...cardale jones seems scary, but he hasnt figured out passing yet.....
however, j.t. barrett leads jones ....it will be nice to see a post comparing the remaining QBs on the buckeye roster. (pro/dual etc)
is rather easy as well
The day 2.5 update.
Was his spring surgery to repair that?
If so, re-dislocating it is a huge deal and he probably won't be back, ever, right?
Can we get some MGoDocs to weigh in?
Also, I'm not sure Barnett will suck. The bucks will still be a huge challenge in The Game without Braxton. The game is there, our Oline looks shabby, and their Dline is top notch.
Orange Bowl, but I'm pretty sure he banged it up at least once last fall and a couple times the year before. He's taken some awfully hard knocks on that shoulder, along with at least one concussion.
as best I can and get ready for the NFL. I can't see taking another chance on injury in college. I'm not sure what the market might be, however if he can get past the physical he could get at least one contract.
I agree. Though if the NFL doesn't work out, he still has a bright future fighting crime with Danny Glover.
Take a year off for a dislocated shoulder and he will be undrafted free agent style at an NFL camp.
I had thought that the initial injury was suffered in the game against Clemson (although I think the injury was more the climax of a series of knocks throughout the 2013 season) and he had the surgery early in the spring, as I recall. I believe it was severe enough that he missed all of spring practice and, up until this point, they had been very deliberate about how much action Miller was seeing in fall camp. According to Jeremy Fowler, it seems that Ohio State actually opted for a more urgent appointment for the MRI as news began to swirl about Miller's injury, which I find interesting if that is indeed the case.
as I see them
1. Structural integrity of the joint.
2. Where was the dislocation; glenohumeral vs acromioclavicular.
3. Grade of the dislocation
4. Re injured in non contact throwing drill is a bad sign.
"glenohumeral vs acromioclavicular".... And in a flash you remind me why I ran screaming from the idea of med school.
I just want to say that Braxton Miller is one tough, tough son of a bitch. This will impact our season and is worthy of discussion but I really do hope nothing but the best for him. He is a good dude and a great player.
All of this "UM and MSU will now decide the title" stuff seems really premature. Let's not count out OSU in the B1G entirely. I wish all our team's question marks had answers like JT Barrett...
We do kind of have the same answers.
Our problems are filed with highly recruited talented but completely unproven players.
PSU will have a say too.
Still got to line up and play the games.
They are not eligible for the playoff or B1G championship game
player at the most important position in the game. I'll gladly take OL issues over that.
I guess I'm thinking problems with OL+RB+TE+FS+DT vs. one spot on a playoff favorite to be filled with a universally regarded player everyone in the country wanted.
Problems at all those positions. OSU has problems at OL DB and they have to find a replacement for Carlos Hyde.
I can agree on OSU, but you don't think we have question marks at those spots?
DT? All signs pointing to good or better from all reports. FS/whoever plays opposite Wilson just hasn't seen the field yet because Gordon was there, and quite frankly I think whoever the replacement ends up being will be more athletic/versatile. TE is a question mark til Butt gets back and you can attribute some of those RB issues to the OL. I’m going to say the only thing I’m worried about is OL as a position group otherwise we might as well worry about every position where we lost a starter.
Michael Citro from yesterday's main page post with Ace, they have a guy who is a suitable replacement for Hyde, not quite as a bruiser, but as fast and effective. Link: http://mgoblog.com/content/vicious-electronic-questioning-11ws-michael-citro-0#comment-2616254
OL, S, CB, LB, and now QB.
"Everyone wanted" JT Barrett? Not so fast, my friend. Ohio was by far his most impressive offer, the next best were Nebraska and...Texas Tech?
And LSU. Plus he was Top 100 at 247 and Top 150 at Rivals.
To me offers speak much more to the quality of a player than where the recruiting services put them.
One thing Nebraska, OSU, Texas Tech, and LSU all have in common is is that they all seem to produce pretty good college QBs that never make it in the NFL. That offer sheet indicates to me that he's not really a top X player.
Lol yeah man. How anyone can now overlook Ohio when we've lost 9 of 10, have them on the road, and they have their best D line in a decade, is beyond me.
Anybody who claims this is just being ridiculous. Michigan had a 3-5 record in the Big Ten last year. A total of 7(!!!) Big Ten teams had a better conference than we did last year. I'm not saying we can't turn it around, but that's a long way from being at the top. If the East had existed last year, 3 teams would have finished above us in our own division, Indiana would have been "tied" with us and then who knows about Maryland/Rutgers. My point here is that we have to be decent before we can talk about winning anything.
it appears there is growing speculation about whether Braxton and the coaching staff was being more optimistic than realistic about his recovery and return to practice and game form with less than two weeks before the first game. Some are suggesting that maybe he just hasn't healed and that rushing him back might have prompted the non-contact dislocation.
And while there is great fear that he might be done this season, many are already speculating that likelihood and possibly taking a redshirt so he plays next year, believing that another shoulder surgery would be absolutely necessary to ensure Miller can even count on a future in football next season and beyond.
That seemed to be the subtext of the Eleven Warriors article (that Meyer tried to bring Miller back too quickly and perhaps the re-injury could have been avoided had they followed a slower time-table).
happen but my first thought was that he has been said to have a bad shoulder all year and I'm sure the medical staff was supervising his progress. If there was no hit, how did this happen? I would think they would be checking for damage constantly.
If he is indeed out of the year, six bucks and my right nut says he's never taking another snap for Ohio again
I'd out his return at 10%, and even then it'd probably not be a good career move. That injury is a long road to recovery just to become fully functional let alone playing quarterback.
Today's MRI might be the most important medical imaging procedure in the history of Ohio medicine.
I don't think this changes much in the grand scheme of things. In 2011 Braxton Miller was an erratic freshman and he had a similar mix of a supporting cast around him. Granted, Meyer is the coach now instead of Fickell, but when we had The Game at home against a first-year QB starter we only won by a touchdown with Denard, Molk, Martin, RVB, Hemingway, Odoms, a healthy Touissant, and on and on. This year we'll be on the road and Barrett may progress a bit better than Braxton did that year.
The general tone of all these posts seems to be similar to mine, nobody's chalking up a win in Columbus. I guess this is just my $.02 ... I don't find myself overwhelmed with joy over this with regards to our chances in November.
We still need to beat MSU in the worst possible way, and this doesn't make it any worse. It couldn't.
The only reason they were within a touchdown in that game was because of the god damned zebras on the field. We should have won that game by two scores.
By the time UM plays OSU they could find their replacement, if necessary, and be on a roll on offense. Plenty of time to figure it out seeing as their schedule is so... noncompetitive.
And hopefully Nuss has got us clicking and our defense is rounding into elite shape.
Fuck Ohio State.
I already had my upset special pick of Navy over ohio. I'm really confident in it now.
If OSU wins, can we remind you that you were wrong as often as you're reminding us you've made this pick?
It is going to take a little while for them to get going this year. They will still probably beat all their non-conference opponents but I don't expect it to be flashy. Their D-like is stellar, but they are replacing their best defensive player in Shazier, first round pick in Roby, and they could now be looking at replacing their two best offensive players (Hyde now in the nfl, and Miller's injury). It'll be interesting to see how they start the season off.
That's what killed us last year is his threat to run. I think their offense was going to be less lethal this year anyway without Hyde who made Miller a better passer. Their defense is what will keep them in games and win...I'm not scared of their offense, plus, the biggest game of our season takes place in Lansing anyway...GO BLUE!
unfortunately neither is Joe Bauserman
"Play school" Cardale could run, he seems inept at passing...this J.T. must be able to do both a little better?
The out for a whole year thing is clearly speculation, as he just went out yesterday and nobody knows the results of any tests done. Also, their schedule (much like Michigan's) is easy until the 8th game (PSU), with the possible exception of VA Tech.
8 games is a lot of time for their backups to learn the system, especially against cupcake teams and may even be enough for Miller to recover.
You wouldn't think that's a big deal?
Gardner got hurt 1/4 the board would somehow be calling for Hoke to be fired over it. And probably more than one calling for Funk's head too
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Happens and Gardner isn't hurt....whatcha talking about?
And the rest would say Hoke would HAVE to wear a headset now.
Brian would somehow blame Dave Brandon. Ghost of Section 1 would demand to know what Lloyd Carr said about the injury and to whom.
losing your starter is a big deal. Carlos Hyde carried what load Miller didn't last year. Now they're both gone and OSU's offense returns almost nothing from a production stand point of last year. That, by itself is significant and enough to change the way the Big Ten East plays out.
will manage with their roster, they have plenty of talent. It's been interesting that they have largely survived with running quarterbacks for the last 10 years without a major injury to a starter keeping him out for long. Pryor missed a few as I recall. But I don't remember Troy Smith missing any. Miller didn't start when Bauserman was a senior but then he came in as a freshman and took over.
So, actually that is the scenario that may play itself out this year if Miller is indeed sidelined.
As a fanbase, we understanding this problem. I remember Gutierrez being named the starter for the opener his junior year and then Henne playing for the next four years after Gutierrez came up with an injury to his throwing arm.
In fact, Michigan's entire qb rotation over recent years has been interrupted, changed or impacted in some majoy way by injuries or coaching and scheme changes.
Henne obviously was very gifted for a freshman, but Gutierrez would've simply destroyed folks with Braylon. We had a good season that year, but even though Gutz was new to starting, he two years in the system and there's a great chance we would've played for the NC.
Just compared JT Barrett to Joe Montana. After admitting he had not seen Barrett play in games (has anyone?), he said on the film - his high school film, presumably - that he knows where to put the football. Montana had that, he says, - not Joe Montana, I'm not saying that - but he knows where to the football and Montana had that ability. Paraphrased obviously, but just a complete a moron.
fans to panic.
How can anybody think this is not a HUGE blow to ohio??? You have a redshirt freshman who has never played with no Hyde, no proven RB, no proven OL and one returning WR??? If you thought people were going to stack the box again against us and blitz their asses off, wait and see what folks do them this year. Their D will be put in all kinds of horrible positions with only a front 4 (no depth like our DL) to save their asses and will be on the field all the time. I think they lose 4-5 games.
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I hope /s. Good God.
I guess this question may be more directed at the Mods.
Saying Hoke needs to think more ahead and in the next sentence say how lucky Meyer is that his star player has a very serious arm injury and it's a good thing is ... I don't even know what to say.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
Also, you'll bet money Kalis graduates from Ohio? I take that bet. Wager whatever you want.
How the fuck are you still posting here?
He's been banned. Unfortunately he and 1928 still show up on the mobile apps. I wish someone would make a thread of all the people that are actually banned so it would prevent people from responding to them.
qb who completed one of two passes in his career to Joe Montana? OK.
So, the Buckeyes are the still the third best team in the country with Barret as the starter, right, Matt?
was the best player in the NFL AFTER he sent him to Cleveland for some cat I don't remember and a 3rd round draft pick. .. .
freshman quarterback and got beat by Ohio State with a first time starter at the posiition. The Buckeyes always have decent Olines and running backs and a good enough defense to win most games and get lucky in others.
Not saying they won's suffer growing pains and mistakes, but when has one position player's injury ruined one of their seasons? I can't remember one. They make do and usually succeed better than anyone could have predicted.
Without Miller, they aren't a Top Ten team but they are still a strong contender for the conference division. And because Michigan hasn't beaten this team in Columbus since Henson did, I don't think that gloating over the possibility of a season-ending injury to Miller makes a whole lot of difference two weeks before the season starts.
It just changes the betting lines in Vegas.
Should edit your comment to say: Michigan went to the Rose Bowl with a freshman QB who had Braylon Edwards to it throw to and Mike Hart to hand it off to....
which is far from certain-- disclocated shoulders are highly re-habbable-- the upshot of the whole thing is probably the difference between Michigan +10 at OSU vs. Michigan +4 at OSU. Pretty big improvement in odds, but probably will still be an underdog.
To people who are feeling Schadenfreude at the injury (with emphasis on the Schade), ask yourself if it would have made a difference to you whether he missed the game vs. Michigan due to injury, academic disqualification, disciplinary suspension, or other reason... probably not much as long as he missed the game, right? (OK, it would have been more fun if it was bad behavior provided no one got hurt, granted).
We're not happy this superb athlete is injured. We're just happy we might not have to face this guy who ripped us up last year. We're still good people. Mwa-hah-hah-hah.
Sucks to be a Buckeye today.
EDIT: Nvm posted above.
Gil Brandt reporting he is done for the season - official release expected later today:
Out for the season, baby! GO. DANG. BLUE.