Basketball Recruiting
So I was reading the recruiting roundup over on umhoops (http://www.umhoops.com/2015/01/29/recruiting-roundup-january-29th-2015/) and it really doesn't seem like we are in the leading group of any of our 2016 targets and seem to be going in the wrong direction. Growing up as a Maryland fan I can't get Gary Williams career at Maryland as a comp out of my head and I don't like it.
To give a little background Gary Williams is a HOF coach who took Maryland from a situation where it was still struggling after the sanctions from the Len Bias tragedy and built them back up to the point where they were a top 5 program in college basketball in the late 90's and early 00's including back to back final fours and a national championship with a team comprised mostly of under recruited guys he coached up. However he never capitilized on that success in recruiting and never made it past the sweet sixteen again. Due to the fact that he was a great in game coach his teams still played well, regularly upsetting duke and unc, they won an acc tourney title and regular season acc title in his last 7 years but they were never again among the elite. I'm worried that I see the same thing happening with Beilein where he is such a great coach his teams are always competing but just don't have the talent or the right combination to make that magical run to elite again.
I'm hoping someone here can convince me that I'm misreading the 2016 recruiting situation and we are looking better than I think.
January 29th, 2015 at 4:14 PM ^
tell the truth Mrs. Williams
January 29th, 2015 at 2:32 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^
....absolutely glistening in a halftime interview:
To be fair, the man was very "into the moment" and lively all game usually.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:23 PM ^
I too have thought about that comparison before...however there are a couple important distinctions to make. If I recall correctly, the Maryland basketball team that won it all with Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter, Steve Blake, etc was actually not full of blue chip talent. It was the first team ever without a McDonald's All-American to win it all.
After that sustained period of elite-success, Maryland actually started pulling in some of the best recruits in the country, including McDonald's All Americans, who just flat-out did not pan out. In fact, the class of 2002 produced 4 top-100 guys per ESPN, Travis Garrison (33), Chris McRae (41), John Gilchrist (70) and Nik Caner-Medley (85). They all had their moments but never reached their potential for a myriad of reasons.
That was the best class ever in the Gary Williams era. It was the fizzling of that class that ultimately led to worse returns going forward. Also, at the same time, Georgetown began to take rise and clean up all the local talent (Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green). I think that really hurt MD recruiting in the later part of the decade. But Gary Williams was always pulling in great classes, they just didn't pan out.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:28 PM ^
That was a great class that busted but it was pretty much the only one and gary actually never brought in a mcdonalds all american.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:29 PM ^
I think Williams' tenure coincided with the rise of sketchy AAU basketball in the DC area, and he wouldn't play their games.
None of the top flight talent in DC ended up at Maryland.
Edit: found an article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/12/AR20090…
January 29th, 2015 at 2:24 PM ^
The fact that people criticize Beilein after diamonds in the rough such as Novak, Douglass, Burke, Stauskas, Hardaway, Spike, Levert, and now MAAR and Dawkins astounds me. We'll be fine in 2016. He is in no way Gary Williams as we have lost practically our entire team to injuries and still have 13 wins in January. If he keeps putting guys in the league, we'll start to get those 5 stars that go elsewhere.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:28 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^
(and Butler) would disagree
January 29th, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 3:05 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 8:28 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 8:34 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 2:34 PM ^
I think it was fairly recently
January 29th, 2015 at 2:54 PM ^
I don't think so, I keep hearing no good players will come here.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:02 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 3:40 PM ^
The best players on that team (Burke and Hardaway) were 3-star recruits.
January 29th, 2015 at 4:00 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 4:21 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 2:36 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 3:03 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 2:32 PM ^
No one's criticizing Beilein, just speaking to the fact that if you continue to put kids into the NBA early then you need to replace them. This year is proof of that. I know people are happy with the way this team has been playing lately and have no expectations for them, but this was a top 25 team at the start of the year that lost 5 games in conference play. This has been a very disappointing year. If we wanna get back to Final Fours and Elite Eights, then we need to start bringing in better talent.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:37 PM ^
What are we supposed to do about it? 5 stars aren't knocking down our door yet. We'll get there. I'll gladly take a slow start every 4 or so years if our program is progressing to the point that we are in the final four the 3rd year. If you keep putting guys like Dawkins, Walton, or MAAR in the league, we'll get the 5 star guys.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:09 PM ^
You're right, the 5 star guys aren't knocking down our doors yet. Which is why we need to knock down theirs. These kids know what Michigan basketball has done over the past few years and it hasn't made a difference. We need to find a way to recruit better, because the fact is Beilein isn't going to keep putting these low rated recruits like MAAR, Dawkins, Doyle, etc. into the NBA.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:39 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 3:51 PM ^
Is that what I said? You want a basketball term, how about putting a full court press on these talented recruits. People are saying that the Michigan staff hasn't been contacting the top PG Derryck Thornton much lately and that has caused us to drop in his rankings. Sorry, but that's not how we should be recruiting these top kids who have their pick of any school in the country.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:57 PM ^
and not coach them so they dont leave early like the 2-3 stars that he coached to be lottery picks in 3 consecutive years, should he keep coaching the 3 stars too? McGary was a 5 star gone in one year.
January 29th, 2015 at 4:04 PM ^
Um, McGary was a 4 star that was gone after two years (partially in thanks to the NCAA and their hypocrisy). Obviously Beilein's player development has been great but if you're gonna have the rate of attrition that we've had over the past couple of years you need to be able to replace that talent, otherwise you have years like the one we're currently having.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:42 PM ^
Beilein is great at finding players, but I'm not sure diamond in the rough really applies to Novak, Douglass, Spike, MAAR, and Dawkins. They were (are so far) servicable players who helped the team win. But a diamond in the rough is typically reserved for a guy like Burke who was a little known 3 star who became the player of the year and was drafted in the lottery. I think LeVert fits that term as well.
January 29th, 2015 at 4:41 PM ^
Under Joh Beilein:
- Michigan won it's first Big Ten championship in 26 years, and won a second two years later
- Michigan ended an eleven-year NCAA tournament drought
- Michigan had one national player of the year and another Big Ten player of the year
- Michigan went to the National Championship game where it lost by 6 points, with much of the final moments hanging on a clean Trey Burke block that was called a foul
- Michigan has sent 6 players to the NBA draft, and is likely to send a 7th player this year
- Michigan has had the best Big Ten record over the last 4 years
- Michigan has done all this despite playing in the nation's best conference the last two years and competing with elite coaches like Tom Izzo, Thad Matta, and Bo Ryan
Despite all that, the brats in the Michigan fanbase want more, more, more!
And people wonder why our football program has been toxic for almost a decade...
January 29th, 2015 at 4:47 PM ^
Lol at calling me a brat, ok. To get to your post it isn't about what has happened in the last 5 years but looking to the future. We could lost out this year and Beilein still has done incredible things and saved michigan basketball but sports is constantly a what have you done for me lately. It is the harsh reality of sports but if we are mediocre for the next 4 years it won't matter what we did over the past 4 years that is just how it is. You get paid millions of dollars to do something you are expected to continue to do it well on a consistent basis.
January 29th, 2015 at 5:04 PM ^
Ummmmm...it's what have you done for me lately but you are worrying about 2-3 years down the road.
If you want the answer to What have you done for me lately? Well, the team is 6-3 in conference and being talked about as a bubble team. This is after the team lost the two post players they thought would be back (McGary & Horford), lost their best all around player (LeVert), had multiple guys severly affected by the flu the prior two games (Doyle, Albrecht, Irvin, Donnal) and has had their point guard battling turf toe all season (Walton).
What have you done for me lately? Seems like the answer is, A hell of a lot.
January 29th, 2015 at 5:04 PM ^
What Michigan has done for you lately is go to the National Championship, go to the Elite Eight, have a NPOY, have a Big Ten POY, won two B1G titles, and sent five guys to the draft. All of that has happened in the last 3 seasons.
I don't live in your hypothetical future world where Michigan is a disappointment. In the real world, less than a decade ago, Michigan was an AWFUL basketball program that hadn't hung a banner since George H.W. Bush was president. Beilein has changed all of that. You are suggesting that we hold him accountable for seasons that haven't happened yet, which is asinine.
January 29th, 2015 at 5:34 PM ^
I'd like to keep that type of success going, and the fact is that it's extremely difficult to do so when you're consistently relying on lowly rated recruits to turn into 1st round draft picks. We should be able to build on the success we've had by utilizing our national profile to bring in talent that we weren't getting 5 years ago, but for some reason we haven't done so yet.
January 30th, 2015 at 12:33 AM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 2:26 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 2:28 PM ^
- You're a fan. Your worrying won't do any good or bad. Your being satisfied with recruiting won't do any good or bad. Doing nothing won't affect things at all.
- As noted above, there is one guy who we've really dropped out for. There are plenty of others we haven't.
- I don't have the comparative stats in front of me. However, me thinks very few schools lost four starters and one solid bench rotation guy. (Stauskas, McGary, Robinson, Morgan, and Horford.) That's 3 guys in the NBA, one in Europe, one in D1 hoops elsewhere.
- Given who we have now, plus Robinson being eligible, plus Wilson being healthy, we should be just fine. And if we keep Max, we'll only have one spot.
- Speaking of one spot, all it takes is one. Add Jaylon Brown, and we couldn't ask for more.
The team is in great hands. I wouldn't be too worried.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^
Coach takes players near or out of the top 100 in the country and turns them into top 10 lottery picks, Burke, Stauskus, Lavert, also, Robinson was outside the top 100,that alone should calm anyone concerned about why we arent getting top 25 players (eventhough we do on occassion) McGary and Irvin. I think we are fine this has been a difficult year due to early exits and injuries
January 29th, 2015 at 2:35 PM ^
I'm hoping I'm wrong my point is that it is difficult to keep winning doing that. Hell that is why Beilein left west virginia, he couldn't recruit the playes he wanted to get them over the hump.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:39 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 3:48 PM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 2:39 PM ^
He says in the UMHoops link that Michigan hasn't been contacting him much lately. As much as I trust the staff, I don't understand that at all.
January 29th, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
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January 29th, 2015 at 4:04 PM ^
My understanding is that he almost committed to Michigan on a visit in the not-too-distant past, though.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^
Also I mentioned Florida in an earlier response on this thread about that is what I wish we were seeing and capitlizing on the run of success and holy hell is Donovan a great coach. Easily top 5 and only 49 years old.
January 29th, 2015 at 2:59 PM ^
You mean 11-9, 4-3 in the SEC Florida - a team that took our best big man who was also a fifth-year senior? I am too lazy to check but am willing to bet that roster is stacked with 4*s. It's not going so great for them, is it? And I agree with you that Donovan is a great coach.
But we're sitting on maybe the best basketball coach in the country. I get hoping for top recruits, and I agree it could make a big Final Four-ish difference with a coach like ours. But after the preceding decade of Michigan basketball - hell, even if you forget the Amaker era entirely - how can you be anything but thrilled with how things are going?
January 29th, 2015 at 3:16 PM ^
I mean I get that Florida is having a down year this year but they have been to 4 straight elite eights and a final four and donovan has two national championships all at age 49. In the last 10 years Florida has 3 final fours, 2 championships, 3 additional elite 8 appearances not including the the final four runs so 6 elite eights in 10 years. I think I can say I want that run of sucess over the next 7 years even if you include this years results.
January 29th, 2015 at 5:09 PM ^
But what has Donovan done for you lately and in the next 4 years?
January 30th, 2015 at 12:35 AM ^
January 29th, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^
A national title. Steve Francis, Steve Blake, and countless others to the NBA. A consistent spot in the top 25 and NCAA bids every year... AT MARYLAND? ...If we get Gary Williams level production from Beilein I don't know why anyone would complain.
I think I get what you are trying to say -- that Williams never turned Maryland into Duke/Kansas/Arizona/UCLA but, well, that's pretty dang hard to do.
Beilein is a great coach who is struggling on the recruiting trail in '14 and '15. I'm concerned about '16 but it's too early to start digging his grave yet.