Bashing Our New England Recruiting Is Lazy
I am amazed and dumbfounded at the continuous bashing of our efforts to recruit in New England. No one disputes the fact that Michigan needs to recruit better. But someone please tell me why New England in particular has been a problem. Let's take a look at the results thus far:
Sean McKeon (2016) - He may not have been flashy but he did end up being our best option at TE prior to graduating. Hard to call him a miss.
Kwity Paye (2017) - No explanation needed. Will be a 1st round pick in the upcoming draft.
Tarik Black (2017) - Remember, he was clearly a better player than DPJ and Nico Collins as a true freshman. Injuries are the only reason he isn't considered a success.
Andrew Stueber (2017) - He's been a valuable contributor on the offensive line.
Ben Mason (2017) - Can't say Michigan didn't get what was expected from him.
Luke Schoonmaker (2018) - A quintessential project whose story is still being written.
Mike Sainristil (2019) - Valuable contributor early on.
Cornelius Johnson (2019) - Our second best WR this season as a redshirt freshman.
Jack Stewart (2019) - Too early to tell.
Zak Zinter (2020) - Against all odds given the nature of true freshman OL and the depth chart, Zinter still earned quite a bit of playing time this season.
Kalel Mullings (2020) - Most everyone was interested in Mullings out of HS. High level recruit.
Eamonn Dennis (2020) - A project at a position of need who also happens to be one of the best athletes on the team.
Seriously, what am I missing? Given the very hit and miss nature of recruiting, I think any neutral observer would have to conclude that Michigan has been fortunate to have these 12 recruits from the New England area. We've had our share of shortcomings in the recruiting department but this hasn't been one of them.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:21 AM ^
I posted something similar in one of the interminable "Fire Everyone" threads a couple weeks ago. You don't want to make your entire recruiting focus on the NE, but Michigan's selective recruiting here has turned up some really good players. If Michigan could hit like this elsewhere we wouldn't be complaining about recruiting nearly as much. And there are about 15M people in the region; it's not like it's crazy that you couldn't pull 3-4 kids a year out of here that can lay at a P5 level.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:23 AM ^
A better word than lazy is stupid.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:04 AM ^
Don't be surprised if Jedd Fisch hires Don Brown in Tucson.
Cheers
December 28th, 2020 at 10:24 AM ^
He will probably try. I don’t see Brown going there unless he can’t find a job in the NE. Michigan is as west as he’s been.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
The two coaches are very close, and their wives are also good friends. It also would not surprise me if Ed O gave Dr. Blitz a call.
Cheers
December 28th, 2020 at 10:34 AM ^
At his age, maybe Brown is interested in milder winters than he’s had in NE and Michigan.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:32 AM ^
Reporting from chilly Tucson ... it's supposed to be 71 degrees today. :-)
December 28th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
Getting the band back together!
How about Drevno as his OC?
December 28th, 2020 at 10:44 AM ^
Don brown defenses would do well in the PAC 12 or big 12 methinks
December 28th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
Don Brown defenses did very well in the Big Ten, in general. I think the recruiting was a greater issue than defensive scheme - and I'm not certain how much if that was Brown's fault.
"Everyone" on this blog wanted Brown gone (including our "glorious leader" blog proprietor)... let's see what happens now that people get their wish.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:10 AM ^
I'm not so sure he's ever really understood the importance of getting and developing tackles big enough to keep something like a big 10 or sec o-line at bay. He was lucky to have come in after hoke was here. Once mattison left...RIP.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^
Our defensive tackle recruiting has been abysmal and I think the db recruiting has been a problem this whole time also. We were fortunate that two of our best corners were homegrown in Lavert and Ambry. Those 2, along with David Long were in the 16 and 17 classes. We've had one elite safety as well. The problem is a combination of Brown's scheme for the dline of building up ends to go inside and porous backfield recruiting. If Zordich doesn't want to or cant recruit, he needs to go. Nua isn't getting what we need either. Brown being dismissed was only one correction of a much bigger issue. If you look back, we've recruited well at every other position here except for the ones above.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
Recruiting is the lifeblood of college FB. Our CB and DT needs are beyond glaring and that falls 100% on recruiting. Great coaches are great because they have great players. Brown is a damn good DC, but his recruiting was subpar. You always reap what you sow.
December 28th, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
Amen. Recruiting is the game, coaching polishes the game. If you cant recruit it doesnt matter if you can coach, if the goal is being nationally relevant. If the goal is 3rd place in Big Ten East, recruiting matters less. A great coach can take decent players and make a team capable of a 3rd place run some years in the East.
December 28th, 2020 at 5:02 PM ^
Who here can say that it was definitively DB's job to handle the defensive recruiting? I don't know enough about the inner workings to say, and I doubt much of this blog does either. But everyone has their opinions, regardless.
December 28th, 2020 at 12:14 PM ^
The problem with Brown is his inability to change his defense. You can’t play man press if you don’t have the personal to pull it off. Yet he kept doing it and we continually got burned. Also for being Dr blitz he seldom got pressure on opposing QB which also makes man press coverage even tougher to play. A coordinator needs to adapt and make changes and Brown never could. Getting rid of him was a very good move
December 28th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
Will there be any announcements of other coaches not coming back this week?
December 28th, 2020 at 9:26 AM ^
I generally agree with this sentiment but I do believe some of the frustration is stemming from the fact the finite recruiting resources the program has are spent here compared to other locales that have a higher chance of producing more highly rated/productive recruits year in, year out.
I do believe that those guys have some direct correlation to our success and they are good football players, but is it possible to just take Kwity Paye or Sainristil or Black, without having to stink as many recruiting resources into the region that generally isn’t a hotbed for recruiting? The point I’m trying to make I guess, is what’s the point of building a relationship at a small school in the NE that could be mistaken for a big law firm when they produce 1 P5 quality recruit every 25 years? Could that energy be better spent locking down JJ McCarthy’s Illinois high school, or spending time in LA (on the other side of the country) locking down quality corners?
December 28th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
McCarthy’s Illinois HS only has 800 students. It’s not particularly big. In your defense, they do have more than 1 P5 quality recruit every 25 years
December 28th, 2020 at 9:51 AM ^
Yeah Nazareth is the IL equivalent to IMG. Its a small football factory who sends guys to P5 consistently and consistently competes for state titles. Julian Love is an alum and a former all American. Here’s another article about transfers as a result of recent success and JJ.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:30 AM ^
Nazareth is a decent football school. IMG it is not.
In 2021 IMG has 3 players other than McCarthy in the 247 composite top 50. They have an additional 4 in the top 350 (e.g. seven 4 or 5 stars + McCarthy). Nazareth’s second highest recruit behind JJ is a 3 star ranked at 629. In 2020, Nazareth’s top recruit was an unranked 3 star who went to Kent State. In 2019, an unranked 3 star who went to Northern Illinois. In 2018, they had the 970th ranked player who went to Iowa State. In 2022 they do have the currently 75th ranked player, but for comparison, IMG has three in the top 66 and six 4 or 5 stars.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:59 AM ^
Epic silliness. You have no way of knowing how recruiting 'resources' are allocated by UM's coaches. That fact that UM has been pulling more kids from NE doesn't mean resources from other areas are being diverted there to accomplish this. UM is obviously recruiting the Midwest and other players on JJ McCarthy's team since THEY LANDED JJ McCARTHY! Do you think the coaches went to McCarthy's team and just recruited him? McCarthy's high school coaches said, "Hey, we have some other kids we like for D1," and our coaches responded, "Sounds great, Ted, but we've already allocated all the resources we can to your school, so we can't watch film or practice of any other players. In fact, don't even tell us about them at all because, yeah, limited resources." Is this really your thinking here?
December 28th, 2020 at 10:12 AM ^
"doesn't mean resources from other areas are being diverted there to accomplish this"
Of course it does as those resources are finite. Whether this is a problem or not is a different discussion.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:33 AM ^
It doesn’t take rocket science to know that pulling kids from the east coast means you won’t have time to put the same effort in to recruits at schools or areas that produce more talent. I’m unsure why you think my comment suggests we don’t recruit the Midwest, but it’s Monday after a holiday maybe your skimming comments or something.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:43 AM ^
Time is definitely the most limiting resource. I agree with the idea that if a coach (any coach) is taking a trip to the northeast, then that is one less trip they can take now to more fertile recruiting grounds. However, if the pipeline is built such that it actually takes minimal effort to pull those kids in from the Northeast (which at least was a distinct possibility when DB was on staff) then I don't see the harm in continuing to pull kids that the coaches have clearly shown to help our program from where ever they see fit in the country.
I think the bigger limitation is the scholarship count. It is tough to argue a spot for Kwitty Paye could have been better used on another kid, but some of the others, just because they have had success does not mean scholarship resources could have been used better elsewhere. Of course it go the other way too. This is the big unknowable question that all teams have to deal with.
December 28th, 2020 at 12:07 PM ^
As others have pointed out, I think the flaw in your analysis is the assumption that it takes the same amount of time.
It might be silly for a coach with no existing ties to New England to devote time to developing them. I suspect however that if you have ties, it takes less time to maintain them, so that the tradeoff is not as clear cut as you seem to suggest.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
Michigan’s resources are vast. WTF are you talking about?
December 28th, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
I don't know how many recruiting resources Michigan actually dedicates to these various schools, but having a reputation as a recruiter at one of these prep schools in the Boston area opens up opportunities with others as well. I think people don't understand that most of these schools are quite near each other; you could come in an visit a half-dozen of these schools without driving more than 10-15 miles. So it's not some massive lift on that end.
Furthermore, kids from New England know about Michigan's academics and aren't bothered about the idea of going "west" to play and attend college. It may be anecdotal, but I think it's much harder to convince kids to come from the Southeast, Texas, CA, etc. to come to Michigan for a number of reason; it seems like we have a more mixed record on those guys coming and sticking.
I'm not saying Michigan should exclusively focus on NE, and chances are we'll probably do even less without Don Brown. But the idea this effort is somehow limiting UM's ability to pull kids from LA or some prep school in Illinois (and it's not like Illinois produces a ton of P5 talent considering their size) doesn't seem to be a real one.
December 28th, 2020 at 12:14 PM ^
Investing resources in an under-scouted region actually seems smart. There’s fewer great players there but also probably fewer schools recruiting them, being the 65th school in Florida is fine, and pulling kids from Aquinas is nice, but there’s all sorts of places to go (personally I’m surprised Harbaugh hasn’t been better in California).
December 28th, 2020 at 9:26 AM ^
I’m too lazy to look it up but are you listing all of the New England recruits? Or cherry picking the good and undermined stories? I’m not trying to call you out but am sincerely curious about your list.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:28 AM ^
Was wondering this exact same thing. Seems like cherry picking to me.
Edit: Ok seems the list it legit, just thought he left out some guys. My bad
December 28th, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
You would be wrong, then, in that belief.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:38 AM ^
The only guys not listed are Charles Thomas and Brad Hawkins, who both went to the NE to play high school football though they are from other regions originally.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:07 AM ^
Didn't they recruit Thomas from IMG?
December 28th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
IDK. His 247 profile says "Oakdale, CT"
December 28th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
I'm not sure what Google is doing to you, but he went to IMG and he is from GA.
December 28th, 2020 at 11:42 AM ^
I think we may have just discovered a rift in space-time creating a portal to another dimension.
December 28th, 2020 at 1:27 PM ^
Probably already figured this out by now, but St Thomas More is in Oakdale, CT. I grew up about 15 minutes from it. Great prep school. I used to do their basketball camp there every summer and would have given my third nut to be able to go there.
As CT born/raised and NC adulted, I see this issue both ways. By and large, New England football is a joke. Cherry-picking with ties to high quality sure thing players is fine. But the overall recruiting investment should not be placed there.
ACC/SEC territory and traditional Michigan hotbeds of MI, OH and CA should be the focus, IMO.
December 28th, 2020 at 7:13 PM ^
Thomas started his high school career in Georgia, transferred to IMG, and then transferred to Connecticut.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:51 AM ^
I think you should add the NJ guys to the list ... like Peppers and Gary. Paramus Catholic is only 45 miles from CJ's high school school in CT. Fly into Newark and hit the NJ schools, drive north and hit CT, RI and MA. Fly out of Boston. Sounds like a very efficient recruiting trip and it has been very successful for Michigan.
The Michigan brand in Metro NY/NJ/CT up into New England is very strong. Also, the competition for top P5 players is not apparent within region as Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, Boston College are not strong programs.
December 28th, 2020 at 12:14 PM ^
If you think driving from northern NJ to CT, RI and MA would be efficient you haven’t spent much time driving in the Northeast. I could see an efficient trip to CT and MA, but adding in NJ would make it s whole different beast.
December 28th, 2020 at 9:28 AM ^
This is completely correct and important. The New England guys haven’t been the problem. Michigan’s personnel issues on defense come down to a lack of near-surefire, top-end talent at key positions. Taking guys you don’t need to recruit that hard and who are often underrated hasn’t done anything to get in the way of Michigan recruiting DT and CB like an elite program
December 28th, 2020 at 9:29 AM ^
We need more of dem southern boys
December 28th, 2020 at 9:29 AM ^
Seems like most are making the point that New England area possesses "limited quantity" and should not be a region to be focused upon.
Hard to argue we havent done decently w those specific recruits...
December 28th, 2020 at 9:33 AM ^
Gimme all your Mo Hursts #BellyRub
December 28th, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
Taking three star projects vs whatever it is OSU is doing is the primary concern, I believe. It is nothing against those specific guys, but what it says about the overall philosophy of the staff. Also it’s Don Brown’s region and Brown hasn’t exactly been a fan favorite lately
December 28th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Paye is the only player mentioned that would get significant minutes on a playoff team.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:11 AM ^
Ding ding ding. There are certainly good players that come out of the NE, but only one of them are true game breakers. We haven’t really seen anything from Mike Sainstril or Cornelius Johnson that says they are elite talent at wide receiver.
My hopes for recruiting is that Michigan gets players impactful enough to get to Indy and a college football playoff spot.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:17 AM ^
Would like to point out they lost AJ Dillion who was a force for Boston College and had a huge game last night for Green Bay.
December 28th, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
"Lost" is a very favorable way of framing it. Michigan basically pushed a current NFL RB out the door by telling him he wasn't good enough to play RB for them and needed to play LB instead.