goblu330

November 10th, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^

It is ostensibly a good response.  It is written well, and it understands where the key issues reside.

But the issue, THE ISSUE, is that as of yet the BIG has no actual evidence.  For us lawyer types, this is not only a problem but one we are all obsessing over.

To the knowledge of the public, and there is no reason the public should not know everything, there is no evidence to substantiate any of this.

This is NUTS.  To the extent that I think there could be a big piece of info we don’t have.

Joined: 01/07/2022

MGoPoints: 32123

LSAClassOf2000

November 10th, 2023 at 9:26 PM ^

See, I thought this was amateurish and that demonstrated that they either did not understand the W&C letter or simply didn't care at this point. Some particularly shitty portions:

"We impose this disciplinary action even though the Conference has not yet received any information indicating that Head Football Coach Harbaugh was aware of the impermissible nature of the sign-stealing scheme. This is not a sanction of Coach Harbaugh. It is a sanction against the University that, under the extraordinary circumstances presented by this offensive conduct, best fits the violation because: (1) it preserves the ability of the University’s football student-athletes to continue competing; and (2) it recognizes that the Head Coach embodies the University for purposes of its football program"

"Jim Harbaugh" as a concept? Nice attempt to run an endaround with your own rules.

"The University also asserted in its response that it “has not yet had an opportunity to review almost any of the evidence.” This is a concerning statement to the Conference in light of the extensive evidence provided to the University by the NCAA."

Here is where I think (not a lawyer, mind you) that Michigan has them over a barrel on merits. You can't deny anything when you don't know what you are denying, and the conference hasn't presented anything that would be acceptable as evidence in the conventional sense.

Later on October 18, two senior Conference staff members and I participated in a call with the University’s President, Athletic Director, and General Counsel. During that call, I expressed my belief that disclosure of the impermissible scheme to the University’s remaining 2023 football opponents was necessary to preserve player safety and protect the integrity of those competitions.

Parroting Haller's diatribe is unoriginal at best and a furtherance of dishonesty at worst. If this was a safety concern, then why is nearly every form of decoding allowable? That entire section is essentially bullshit.

I mean, there's more, but these are some of the more egregious things I saw in it. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

MGoPoints: 130636

Hensons Mobile…

November 10th, 2023 at 11:16 PM ^

That last paragraph (about player safety) actually clarified something for me, I think.

Based on initial reporting, it appeared that MSU invented "health and safety." But then I heard a couple things in passing (including from JUB) that made it sound like the conference presented health and safety as a concern to MSU.

This paragraph seems to confirm that Petitti, on his own, invented the health and safety concern (which was lapped up by MSU).

I assume Petitti knows nothing about football and certainly did not at that time understand that stealing signs was legal (or understand what scouting in general is). And unless he's lying here, he talked about health and safety in front of Ono (didn't play football I'm guessing), UM general counsel (not a bunch of football players I'm guessing), and Warde Manuel.

Did Warde Manuel not point out that sign stealing is a common practice and health and safety is not a concern?

I'm afraid I know the answer to that question.

I don't want to say I owe MSU an apology exactly--they took health and safety to heart immediately--but I do feel I was mistaken about its origin. And we had an opportunity to nip it in the bud, and didn't.

Joined: 09/12/2019

MGoPoints: 49528

CFraser

November 10th, 2023 at 8:38 PM ^

He signed his death warrant. Imagine the heat that comes out of this. You’re in your first year as commissioner, let coaches gang up to hurt the best team and then proceed to lose and have your biggest institution literally get a restraining order against you. Then, tons of dirt and problems flood the media and you look like an absolute dumbass. Then it’s shown how the other teams influenced you, reported to you and the media…etc - you are gone and can’t even see it? You’re a lawyer?! Absolute moron and a coward to boot. 

Joined: 08/15/2017

MGoPoints: 6262

MGlobules

November 10th, 2023 at 9:05 PM ^

Unless this guy was utterly cowed by the lynch mob, it is TOTALLY baffling to me that ANY of them would want to prevent the Big Ten's best chance in YEARS from winning a national championship.

When they had AMPLE evidence, even at a glance, of malfeasance and sometimes worse from a MAJORITY of the rest of the conference.

Someone explain this to me!

Short term, yes, they really MIGHT hurt the UM. We COULD go in tomorrow, come out Nov 25 and lose our poise, screw the pooch. But this is shooting yourself and the conference in the BALLS, no? The years of discord that are going to grow from this? The lasting bitterness?

And FOLLOWING THE LEAD OF A LYNCH MOB FROM ESPN? The network that promotes the SEC, to the detriment of the B1G, and has for years?

I'm with the poster above who thinks there must be some still-concealed piece of this or THEY ARE BATSHIT CRAZY.

Joined: 11/17/2008

MGoPoints: 47676

JacquesStrappe

November 10th, 2023 at 8:39 PM ^

Warde’s response:

“Working very hard on this but I have no comment”

Brick Tamland from Anchorman is Warde’s alter ego.

https://youtu.be/m_3q4itaVBQ?si=MDU_6UAxuXeJLl63

 

Joined: 04/19/2019

MGoPoints: 4994

McSomething

November 10th, 2023 at 8:39 PM ^

It's time to go. Honestly. This conference is so far up Ohio State's ass, and his been since at least the 70s. Fuck'em. Loyalty to the bastards is worthless.

Joined: 09/29/2010

MGoPoints: 36843

MgoBlueprint

November 10th, 2023 at 8:41 PM ^

I didn’t want to make an entirely new thread, so I’ll drop this in the comments. Here are the pictures that Michigan was sent from a former osu coach. Warde attached these documents to his letter to Petitti. I may be missing something, but it looks like a good number of these were taken in person, which would mean that osu is guilty of what Michigan is accused of doing something. I may be off-base, but the Michigan scoreboard is pretty clearly visible. 
 

Tweet part 1

Tweet part 2

Joined: 12/15/2008

MGoPoints: 11576

Yeoman

November 10th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^

I only looked at Tweet 1, where pages 2 and 3 are pictures of the Michigan scoreboard taken during last year's Hawaii game. The other pages were of broadcast footage but those pictures were taken in the stadium. There's no network footer like there would be on tv.

Interesting that whoever they had on site still used scoreboard footage rather than direct shots of the sideline. Broadcast footage is so superior that even when you're doing illegal on-site scouting you still use the broadcast video shown on the scoreboard?

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

Blue@LSU

November 10th, 2023 at 8:41 PM ^

Footnote 1 on p. 8 is a doozy. 

1 Neither the Conference Handbook nor the Sportsmanship Policy defines “evidence” or requires that the Commissioner rely on any specific form of evidence in order to make a determination. And the Policy certainly does not require that any such evidence meet the legal standards for admissibility at trial, as the University contends in its response. Univ. Resp. at 7. To the contrary, Section 10.2.1 of Policy expressly provides that, in determining whether an offensive action occurred, the Commissioner may consider “any evidence that he or she deems relevant,” and “may accept any information provided by any source.” Id. § 10.2.1.

Joined: 11/04/2016

MGoPoints: 80123

MeanJoe07

November 10th, 2023 at 8:54 PM ^

Evidence still has a an objective definition. It does not mean a tree.  It's does not mean the color red.  It means the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.  Video tape of a coach on a sidelines doing coach things is not information indicating that a scheme is taking place especially given the fact that you could look at every other sidelines and see the same thing. Probably, in fact, a coach whose job it is to steal signs. If evidence can mean anything and everything form anyone and everyone based on the subjective interpretation of a single man then we should get the fuck out of BigTen immediately.

Joined: 09/15/2013

MGoPoints: 73253

M_Born M_Believer

November 10th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^

While I will state clearly, Tony is a putz and is simply looking for a HUGE power grab.

My completely non-lawyer read of the boring dribble from the BIG TEN was that Tony believes that he has sole power to determine:

A) What is evidence;

B) What is fair or unfair;

C) Unilateral descretion on when a judgement can be passed out

All this letter did was try and twist reality in a way that would allow Tony to do whatever he wants...

Joined: 11/11/2009

MGoPoints: 11786

MeanJoe07

November 10th, 2023 at 8:45 PM ^

Citing video of Stalions on the sidelines wearing coaching attire (as if that's relevant) and speaking to coaches during the game is evidence of a scheme seems insane to me given.  No one is arguing he wasn't part of the staff.  Video of a coach on the sidelines doing coach like things is not evidence of anything other than him being a coach. If you somehow had a recording of what was said then that would be different, but that's quite a reach isn't it?

Joined: 09/15/2013

MGoPoints: 73253

LostPatrol14

November 10th, 2023 at 9:43 PM ^

Here’s how I think this played out:
 

Michigan: If you don’t let this investigation play out, we will sue.
B1G: Uh huh, okay *continues to read the complaints made by other teams*
Michigan: Oh, and we have indisputable evidence that nine other schools within the conference literally stole our signs and shared them.
B1G: That’s unfortunate *continues reading*

*next day*
B1G: Alright! We’ve made a decision!
Michigan: Alright…
B1G: Harbaugh is suspended for the rest of the season
Michigan: WHAT?!
B1G: Our sportsmanship policy clearly states to not steal signs.
Michigan: What about the TON of evidence we gave you about the other teams?!
B1G: I’m very sorry. This is unfortunate. You Should be more like your rival, Ohio State. They’re such a great example of being ethical

Joined: 01/09/2016

MGoPoints: 4927