Answer this about Troy's comments with Tate + Turner
Don't get me wrong, a senior called out a sophomore who he thought should be working harder. I am fine with that. Maybe Troy also felt some urgency to light a fire under the QB situation, who knows. RR was fine with it and so was I. The original situation is not the issue, I actually thought it was all overblown.
However, what doesn't seem to make sense is that Turner who was a high profile member (just based on HS rankings and expectations) of Troy's exact position group on defense, a guy he should be mentoring, at a position of need and a position of limited depth was allowed to slack his way into oblivion and eventually off the team. Maybe this was already obvious to some insiders, but it caught me completely off guard and I wonder where the alarms were before now? Why were guys not getting called out earlier when you see such a problem in your own position group? After everything that has happened, I almost want to step back to reassess Troy's comments since his own backyard was a bit of a mess. I don't know, maybe others have better perspective here, but his outspoken comments have lost something for me in the wake of the Turner fiasco.
August 12th, 2010 at 10:56 PM ^
No one can make the kid work out. He has to want it himself. Troy can't get the guy running or in the weight room. Talk is talk, but at the end of the day, he has to decide to show up and put in the work. That's all. For all we know, Troy could have been calling him 6 times a day every day.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:04 PM ^
"I personally have a lack of respect for them," Woolfolk said. "The outlook on them is kind of diseased. Like you don't want to be hanging around those people because they have bad work ethic. But at the same time, it's my role to try to persuade them to come out more."
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/woolfolk-quarterback-competition-a…
My guess is that group includes Turner. Woolfolk was later asked directly about Tate. Did anybody ever ask Woolfolk about Turner? Maybe he would have said the exact same thing about Turner if he was asked.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:10 PM ^
He was asked specifically about Tate, hence the comment.
Beyond that, there's an chance that Woolfolk thought that calling out Tate had the potential to light a fire under him and push him to get better. Tate has shown he can be a contributor, and T-Wolf was trying to motivate him to take the next step in terms of leadership... which it sounds like he is doing.
On the other hand, calling out JT would have been calling attention onto a kid who wasn't ready to contribute, wasn't going to be ready any time soon, and who was on the verge of peacing out.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:17 PM ^
...probably correct. As I recall, the two Q&As were separated by about 30 minutes. Troy's specific call out of Tate in the second comment means that Tate is included in his "bad work ethic" group, but it says nothing about who else that list includes.
[Edit: And as BISB correctly points out, Woolfolk's comments weren't made in a vacuum. In all probability, he already knew what was going to happen with JTT so trying to light a fire underneath him wasn't worthwhile. On the other hand, doing the same for Tate, was.]
August 13th, 2010 at 12:29 AM ^
You're a dick and everyone here knows it. You can't be right!
/immense-sarcasm
/slow-clap
August 12th, 2010 at 11:04 PM ^
Turner doesn't play for Michigan
August 12th, 2010 at 11:14 PM ^
If Rich Rod was referring to Turner when he mentioned players that were out of shape, and Turner responded with I'll transfer, then we are much better off. 5 star ratings don't count for many tackles, players playing hard do.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:20 PM ^
A shrewd move to call out Tate I believe. Just like golf..... this won't build character, it will reveal it. Especially since it's better to be revealed early. We have no time for on the job training at QB. Best to see if this shows if Tate really is a leader. So far it has based on reports from camp. But if Tate isn't the man, let's get on with the Dilithium.
August 12th, 2010 at 11:23 PM ^
a team follows a quarterback, like it or not. they do not follow a RS Freshman with no playing time. the tempo provided by a QB Is much more important than a younger kid in his first year of playing time. a QB should be leading the way, not sluffing off. it was 10x more problematic for the team to hate Mallett than it was if they hated Graham, or Boren for the sake of "LOLassholeLOL."
August 12th, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
I agree with everyone that the quarterback is the figure-head, but another thing to keep in mind is that no two people can be led the same way. While some kids may need a more nurturing approach to excel, others need a shout and a kick in the ass.
August 13th, 2010 at 12:02 AM ^
i'm guessing "kick in the ass" is the way to go with Tate
August 13th, 2010 at 12:07 AM ^
Or maybe JT Turner was pissed that he could not be the only JT in the secondary, let alone the one highest on the depth chart. I always thought he was better when he was Justin.
I'm sad to see a talented player not reach his potential with UofM, but it sounds like in this case he did not want it bad enough. Aloha means goodbye.
August 13th, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^
The ongoing deconstructions of Troy Woolfolk's comments, lack of RichRod response, Tate's performance, the implications for the team...of all of this I think that I can't wait until September and UConn so we can get back to UFR's and actual Michigan performance.
August 13th, 2010 at 12:26 AM ^
that Woolfolk may have been thinking of Turner with his general comments about "those people" who lack the work ethic. Wouldn't have thought of it until after Turner left. but leaving only a day or two into a practice while RR mentions some players weren't in shape and warning that they wouldn't be wearing the helmet if they didn't get it together, and after the leader of your position talks about "those people" being "kind of diseased"... It makes sense in retrospect that some of that must have been directed at Turner and he was aware of it, but chose not to take it as a challenge but as the writing on the wall. Remember Troy's comments about Tate and "diseased" were separated by another question (or more) until the two hot spots were put together in print. Word is Tate is working in practice and Turner turned his back on the program very quickly.
I also wonder if Richard Ash's posting "I'm going home" and then admitting he was joking shows how the rest of the team felt about Turner's leaving. Continuing the speculation, maybe it shows the team had already lost respect for Turner, and Ash's making such a joke reveals that the rest of the team is not sorry he's gone.
And I look at that top picture on the "he's gone away" post, with the very sweet smile and nice-guy look, and it's hard for me to put those two pictures together. But then I'm not at practice or part of a hard-working team that wants to better themselves and win.
All speculation anyway.
August 13th, 2010 at 12:46 AM ^
Based on this quote:
The only reason he's not really labeled as diseased is because of the way he was able to carry the team last year before we started losing. People still trust him a little bit, but he's starting to lose that trust.
It looks like his teammates had more to do with Turner's exit than the coaches. If they are labeling slackers as "diseased" it's not hard to imagine how they will take care of people not doing what needs to be done, if they're problematic enough, by straight up running them off. I think that's a good thing, shows that the team has developed a strong culture and takes care of itself from the ground up. Very telling, indeed.
August 13th, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^
i think that's a great thing and one of the things clearly missing the last two years. if that culture can be created and sustained we will be great again - and for a long time.
August 13th, 2010 at 1:58 AM ^
If following the footsteps of Charles Woodson so closely can't inspire the kid to work at elite levels to achieve his potential, then Troy and the rest of the team are right in serving notice.
August 13th, 2010 at 3:04 AM ^
I don't think there's that much to be read into it. he wasn't asked specifically about Turner, so he didn't bother to call out everybody. He was asked a question about Tate's work ethic, especially since Rodriguez had called Tate out previously, and gave an honest answer.
August 13th, 2010 at 7:44 AM ^
you're reaching
August 13th, 2010 at 8:12 AM ^
I dont know about you guys but I am encouraged about this. If this happened the way we are all talking about it did, It means that the team is taking this season very seriously and calling out anyone that is not on board and working their ass off. Good riddance I say.
August 13th, 2010 at 8:43 AM ^
that Turner is gone and didn't live up to the hype, what can you do? Just take the scholarship and add 1 more player to this years class!
August 13th, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
Watched it again. The interview was before Turner left. It was interesting that when asked about what players Troy was excited about seeing, he mentioned JT Floyd and the incoming freshmen CBs. He did not mention Turner, one of the highest rated CBs in the nation. How is that possible? Well, maybe because he wasn't excited about seeing Turner on the field.
August 14th, 2010 at 6:50 PM ^
In the past, Rich Rodriguez has "called out" Tate Forcier, but we haven't heard him say much about Justin Turner. (Albeit, Justin Turner wasn't the starting quarterback.) It could be that the coach's example set the example for what is permissible -- and in what fashion -- for the seniors to comment about.