2020 Recruiting Questions
As bad as the weather was Saturday, the outcome over ND was more glorious. One of the memes on recruiting is that a big win is always a great thing for recruits who are in attendance. So I have a bunch of questions.
- Myles Hinton was in attendance again. Is this only because of his brother being on the team, having the opportunity to perhaps see Chris and hang out with him? Or is there any chance that Hinton flips from Stanford to Michigan? With Stanford at 4 - 4, could that help Michigan at all? If Myles went blue, he would instantly be the highest ranked player in the 2020 class. I realize there's "always a chance," but I'm more interested in whether or not there is a realistic chance.
- We saw how important the OL is to the success of the team. The ND game was a perfect example of what a solid OL working in unison can do. This, imhe, is the greatest single factor that has sucked since Rich Rod, if not before, and is only now finally getting it together. I'm wondering how many OL we would or could take in 2020. We have 4 kids committed now. Obviously we would make room for Hinton. I'm sure we'd also make room for Andrew Gentry. That would give us two classes with 6 offensive linemen each. I'm assuming that at some point we'd see transfers out. (Magnus has hinted as much.) But you can't have too much depth on the OL, because it is a bit of a crapshoot on who will actually pan out. Oh, and I badly want to see Warinner continue as OL coach.
- Theo Johnson and Andrew Gentry are the top remaining recruits on the board. Both were here for the game. Any reports out there on their visits? Any thoughts on how they are viewing Michigan? Or is this just a free trip to an exciting football game?
- At this point, I'm most concerned about CB and DT recruiting. Is there anyone solid we are still recruiting in 2020? Is Damon Payne in Belleville completely set against Michigan?
- Recruiting has to look far down the road, to 2021 and 2022. OSU already has 6 top 100 guys either committed or 100% crystal balled. Michigan has at least a couple kids (McCarthy and El-Hadi. I hope there are more in the pipeline.
October 28th, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
They are going to need a highly rated CB to pop out of nowhere for 2020. Like Charbonnet's recruitment - he was #1 on their board all along but it was low key on both sides, so you didn't hear about too much on the premium boards (except for Sam Webb who kept talking about him all along).
I don't know that they have a guy like that. Seldon is a gamer, but they need another.
October 28th, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^
CB recruiting is indeed a problem. It was our strength for so many years. And its not about the numbers. Its about the quality.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:56 PM ^
Malcolm Greene just committed to LSU so is it basically Darion Green-Warren or bust? Zordich is a pretty good coach but as a recruiter he leaves a lot to be desired. I'm looking at OSU's WR class then looking at what UM has done at CB the last few classes and all of a sudden I'm feeling uneasy.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:09 PM ^
Coaches generally recruit a certain geography, so not sure the knock on Zordich is the issue with CB recruiting in general
October 28th, 2019 at 1:33 PM ^
We've had the luck and luxury of a string of top-tier corners for a few years. If Vincent Gray is an indication of what's behind the current pair Hill/Thomas, we're in deep trouble.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:50 PM ^
Gray is a true freshman that has played pretty well this season! You can't fairly compare him to L Hill, or even Thomas, because of their experience (time in program for Thomas). Yeah, he got abused by Claypool (a certain NFL'er next year), but he's held his own pretty well. Give the kid a chance!
October 28th, 2019 at 3:16 PM ^
He's a sophomore, not a true freshmen. And he is in line to be a starter next year, so he doesn't have a lot more time to get it together.
October 28th, 2019 at 8:05 PM ^
I thought he was a redshirt freshman. His mgoblue page says sophomore, but it also specificall mentions he played in 2 games last year plus the bowl game. Also, I don't see him being a star, but it seems like there's a good chance he'll be a solid starter. For one, he's already playing and doing decently. Two, he's not the fastest but he is tall and long. As long as he can bulk up and get better getting off blocks, he'll be fine. We've mostly had great CBs and solid safeties the last few years, but it looks like things will be reversed soon.
October 28th, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^
Re 3: I think Theo Johnson never made it b/c of the rain. He's coming for MSU.
Re 4: I think Payne is 2021.
October 28th, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
Payne is 2021, and he is the #1 DT on our board too. I can tell you that everything we're hearing from our recruiting insiders is that Payne seems intent on leaving Michigan for college. One of our top RB targets for 2021 is Donovan Edwards, so it seems like a lot of key recruiting battles next year are going to come down to OSU and UM (add Corey Kiner out of Cincinnati to that list).
I just looked at the state rankings for 2021, and I didn't realize how many high-end recruits are set to come out of Michigan. No wonder you guys are expecting a huge year. How many of the 9 4-stars do you think end up at UM?
October 28th, 2019 at 12:20 PM ^
Payne, Edwards, Kiner. Those are three great kids. And it is interesting to see the head to head battles between UM and OSU. There have usually been a few battles, but not that many.
I can't say how many high-end recruits we keep . . . I'm guessing 6? Ed Warinner may have been a disaster at OSU, but we'll gladly take your rejects. He has solidified OL recruiting, which is key. And I think that leads a couple guys to commit. Maybe 3 more are UM homers. The two key kids in my opinion are Payne, and maybe the 3 star CB Kaleb King. We have got to solidify recruiting on the interior DL, and also in the secondary.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
Warriner was only a disaster at OSU when he was OC -- they liked him quite a bit when he was focused on the OL, IIRC.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
You're right about his time as OC, but OSU people knocked him for his recruiting even when he was OL coach.
Of course, OSU has pretty lofty recruiting standards... and he's definitely better than Drevno in every way.
October 28th, 2019 at 8:15 PM ^
Exactly right. He sucked as an OC but shined as the OL coach at OSU. Problem was that he wasn't going to take a demotion back to OL coach after his disastrous run as their OC so he left
October 30th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
^this exactly. We would have loved to have kept him as the OL coach, but he and Tim Beck couldn't call a game to save their lives, and had one of the most talented offenses we've ever had at their disposal. He wasn't taking a demotion, and he couldn't remain as OC, so he moved on. We hate to see him in Maize and Blue, but don't begrudge him for making the step up from Minnesota.
To the earlier point, keeping 6 of those 4-stars at home would be huge for you guys. OSU has shown it's commitment to Ohio by pushing hard and already getting commitments from 4 of the top 5 players in the state (and the one who committed elsewhere wants to play WR and OSU wants him at DB). How much does UM typically focus on in-state kids?
October 28th, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
Yeah, I knew Payne was 2021, but couldn't edit the OP. Still, he would be a great guy to have come to Michigan. Frustrating he wants to leave, but what can you do?
October 28th, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
So help me, if one more Michigan player goes to Kentucky, I’m gonna hurt someone. I get going south to play for Alabama or Clemson, but Kentucky often isn’t even the best program in Kentucky.
End rant.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:53 PM ^
When they go to Kentucky it usually means Michigan didn't really want them in the class to begin with. Because it also means that Ohio State, Alabama, Clemson, and Florida also didn't want in.
October 28th, 2019 at 8:19 PM ^
You're spot on. I know OSU was also recruiting him at one point and also backed off. So I don't think it was a miss for us. There's something behind the scenes we're not seeing. But Kentucky ?
October 28th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
I have all of the answers but, none for you.
October 28th, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
If we don't get a DT in this class, we're going to have to take 2-3 true DTs in the next class, which will be hard to do. I also find our CB recruiting struggles interesting. We've produced at the position. And while Vincent Gray has been up and down this year, you can see him being a pretty good corner as an upperclassman. But our depth at the position is unknown, which means it's scary.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:06 PM ^
I also find our CB recruiting struggles interesting. We've produced at the position.
Our CB's coach is a great developer of talent, and a pretty poor recruiter by all accounts. I hope we land at least one blue chip DB.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
From what I've read, DJ Turner is one of the fastest guys on the team, and was ascending before he got banged up. I believe Ambry will be back (No inside info) and with Seldon coming in, and Dax playing Nickel, we should be fine with Jalen Perry and Vincent Gray.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
I actually like Gray a lot - more than most here it seems.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:53 PM ^
I’m not super high on Gray. He’s stick thin and gets ran over a lot on run support. And he just doesn’t seem to be an elite one on one cover guy, and that’s what Dan Brown needs. I’m sure he will improve a lot between now and next season, because we are desperately going to need him to be a stud
October 28th, 2019 at 1:19 PM ^
Gray actually seems decent at run support but really lacking as an outside cover guy. He got blown off the ball on that 4th quarter TD. How many times have we seen him completely helpless on the outside?
October 28th, 2019 at 1:22 PM ^
Gray is heavier than Ambry and Hill.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:27 PM ^
But isn't gray in underclassman? He shouldn't even be playing now, and looks pretty good for an underclassman, and will only get better. It's the upperclassmen ahead of him you can be disappointed in their development, but not his. If anything he's showing up early, and that's a good thing.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:48 PM ^
I think Gray is ok as a first time starter, what i've noticed though is that there are a growing number of passes he seems to be in relatively good position in, but never gets his head around to find the ball. If he can figure that part out, he could be a guy who takes a huge step forward next year. I've seen at least 4 passes in the last few weeks where that was the case, including the ND touchdown.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:00 PM ^
Define "fine." Will UM be able to get away with who they have against most teams in the B1G? Probably. Are these the type of guys you trust to lock down the WR's that are on CFP contenders? I don't think so.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:25 PM ^
Really? Dude if we get to the college football playoffs, That would mean they were doing a helluva job. If they can play and handle OSU's receivers, I'll take my chances with anyone in the playoff's.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:51 PM ^
Did I say otherwise? I'm sorry but if you think the way UM is recruiting at CB is going to get it done against OSU (look at their WR classes the last two years) you're delusional.
October 28th, 2019 at 5:40 PM ^
Otherwise? I didn't say otherwise. You made the statement that they might be good enough for B1G receivers, but not good enough to "lockdown" playoff teams. Dude, this isn't 7 on 7. The corners are fine, and once Dax is starting, they will be even better equipped. You don't play cornerback in a bubble. You have a pass rush, and different defensive schemes to help you out.
October 28th, 2019 at 10:52 PM ^
That worked out great last year when Brandon Watson and Tyree Kinnel were "fine" with guys like Devin Bush, Chase Winovich, Rashan Gary, Lavert Hill, David Long, etc. around them until they weren't.No rational person can look at OSU's WR class and then look at UM's corner recruiting and think everything is going to be "fine." It's pure delusion.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:43 PM ^
Between having Kemp back for one more year, Hinton, Mazi and probably Julius Welschof, I think we'll be fine at DT for a few more years. I'm definitely more worried about CB
October 28th, 2019 at 4:47 PM ^
Welschof was a long shot, doubt that he ever sees the field, plus isn't he a DE? Having only 3 DTs is ridiculous.
October 28th, 2019 at 7:40 PM ^
Dwumfour has another year also.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
With Hinton, I've read that he was sticking with Stanford but if he didn't clear admissions it would be Michigan. But that was early in the season. At 4-4 and being at an exciting game like this past weekend, it could sway him but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Remember, his brother committed to Michigan and was adamant about only committing once.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
Makes sense. And yeah, I was thinking there's no point to get any hopes up.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:27 PM ^
Michigan has 100% of his crystal ball.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
I think we also need some WRs... There is a chance the big 3 all go to nfl after this season.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:10 PM ^
There's also a chance that the world will end before I type this line.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
Turns out miniscule probabilities can generally be ignored.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
100% chance that Tarik Black would not get drafted after this season.
If I'm not mistaken, he has 2 career TDs and under 500 career receiving yards.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:53 PM ^
I think he'd get drafted. His size and ability would point to being under-utilized in an ancient offense at Michigan. If he had a good combine and workouts, he could easily get drafted.
Now that doesn't mean I think he'll go. I think if he stays it means that probably Collins and DPJ both leave and he'll be the man next year in an offense he is convinced will get him plenty of touches. If he leaves, I would think he isn't very encouraged about his role in the offense moving forward. And he might be able to grad transfer somewhere also and get plenty of PT in a pass happy offense. He did just retweet St Juste commenting on J Woods transfer tweet about "since we arrived on campus, the cards weren't right." Could just be friends supporting each other, or could be him feeling the same way.
October 28th, 2019 at 2:46 PM ^
I would be kinda shocked if Tarik Black left. He'd come back being the #1 or #2 guy next to Bell
October 28th, 2019 at 12:12 PM ^
Theo Johnson didn't make it up for the game after all. HIs OV will be for MSU I believe now. He's been many times and seems still very interested.
Andrew Genrty will be on a 2 yr Mormon Mission so won't really count for this class, leaving room for more lineman assuming we have available scholarships.
Last update i heard on Myles Hinton was that maybe there was some issue with Stanford admissions and if he didn't go there, he'd come here, but not sure of the veracity of said update. I believe Sam Webb was not optimistic we'd see him flip.
Re: CB and DT - we're pushing hard for Darion Green-Warren (4 Star CB) and i think another kid whose name I dont' recall. As of today we're not in on any top DTs I'm aware of, but with the guys we got last year, they may be looking for more hybrid DT/DEs this year where guys could bulk up, based on current commits. They can't all be DEs. Not saying that's a good thing, but think that's where we are at.
2021 should be very good assuming McCarthy is as good as advertised and recruits as hard as he is on other players.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
We were in on Malcolm Greene out of VA, but apparently he committed to LSU recently. Not sure if that is who you were thinking of.
24/7 lists him as a safety, but I thought we had him targeted as a CB. Doesn't matter much now though.
October 28th, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
I thought there was another guy as well but memory fails me and 247 doesn't have anything so i dunno - maybe i made it up? Sam's been pretty quiet in regards to "new" recruitments - just retreading updates on Gentry/Johnson/etc... so not sure what that points to, if anything. Magnus and some of the guys who more closely follow recruiting would probably know more.
I also think we'll see some significant attrition as guys have been jumped on the roster, as insiders have indicated as much and is the state of college football, so the staff may be in wait and see/quietly recruit mode until they have a clearer picture of who's staying and who is going, along with the question marks about guys who have NFL aspirations and may or may not try the draft this year.
October 28th, 2019 at 1:22 PM ^
TE recruiting has been somewhat pathetic as well the last few cycles.