that we are holding out for Leonard Fournette and fliping Hand from Bama
to play football, not to play trumpet
that we are holding out for Leonard Fournette and fliping Hand from Bama
the class rounding out with.
I have an assistant to proof read all my work...i blame this one squarely on Lloyd!
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing another offensive lineman. If my memory is right, I think we're only taking two O-linemen in the 2014 class (Mason Cole and JBB) and only currently planning to take two in the 2015 class (Runyan and another guy). Probability says that not all of those guys will stick around for 4-5 years and not all of them will pan out as hoped. We could find ourselves with a familiar problem if we end up with, say, 0-2 productive linemen from those two consecutive classes.
Coaches generally want to have 13-15 linemen on the roster every year. Michigan has 15 scheduled to be on the roster in 2014, plus 1 already in the fold for 2015 (and nobody graduating after 2014). That puts us at least at 16, plus potentially another guy like Sterling Jenkins, which puts us at 17. Granted, there will probably be some attrition at some point in there, but we're getting to the point where taking linemen would be overkill.
I think we should go for a RB, maybe a QB, and a "best available player" if possible.
I'm not crazy about that rule of thumb ("We want X players on the roster at this position every year, so let's recruit to that number"). It completely ignores the distribution of those players across classes. For example, if I were losing no one at a position this year and a ton of guys at that position next year, I'd probably try to replace them with roughly equal numbers across the next two classes rather than skipping the position this year and then loading up next year.
To me, recruiting is about building for a few years down the road, not just building depth for the upcoming year. There's only so much you can expect from true freshmen anyway.
Well yeah, and Michigan has done that. Given how many lineman have been taken over the last two finished classes, I think Hoke & Co. can pass on an okay lineman this year in favor of one they may like more next year.
Sometimes, the chips fall into place and you can finish recruiting a position for two or three years worth, depending on your system and personnel needs.
Magnus, whats your take on our DT depth? It simply feels that we lack at this positional spot, and to me is the biggest issue of the entire team. Ok, so there is Pipkins hopefully recovering, then there is Mone and Pallante.... still seems thin
We have a lot of RS frosh guys who are 3-tech/5-tech types plus Henry. We also just redshirted Poggi and Hurst who both project at DT as well as the guys you mentioned.
If we miss on McDowell we're probably still in fine shape but if we get him we're golden.
I don't know if we really lack players at the position. We lack a proven guy. The guys we have on the roster for defensive tackle (or maybe 5-tech) are Pipkins, Ash, Pallante, Mone, Henry, Godin, Glasgow, Hurst, Poggi, Strobel, and Wormley. Maybe I'm forgetting someone. That's eleven guys for those two spots, plus a couple guys who can play the 5. I don't think that's too bad. Pipkins, Ash, Mone, Henry, Hurst, and maybe Poggi can play the nose. It's just a matter of getting Pipkins healthy, but honestly, I think we would be okay with Henry as the starting nose tackle if we can find somebody to give him a breather.
Agreed, and you could throw Heitzman into that group as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move to the 3-tech (at least occasionally) because he's both shorter and heavier than most of the 5-tech options (both good for an interior DL), he's less explosive than some of the 5-tech options (which is an attribute best for guys on the edge) and as the elder statesman on the DL, he's likely capable of learning multiple DL positions (and is likely pretty smart since he was originally a Vandy commit).
Moving Heitzman to 3-tech initially will allow Henry to start at NT until Pipkins is full-go, and then you have experienced guys at all starting spots along the line. Something like Wormley-Henry-Heitzman-Clark is what I'm thinking with maybe Godin-Mone-Poggi-MO as their backups. That's not bad, and once Pipkins is fully back you move Henry to 3-tech and bump the weaker of the two 3/5-tech starters.
(7) Pipkins, Ash, Pallante, Mone, Henry, Hurst, and Glasgow are the dedicated nose/3 techs.
(1) Poggi should be a 3 tech in a few years, but right now he's way too slight to make an impact there. I believe the coaches told him depending on his size they'd start him off at 5 and move him in.
(3) Heitzman, Godin, and Wormely are 5 techs with the possibility of moving to the 3 on passing downs.
(1) Strobel is an interesting case. I remember he didn't want to go to a school like OSU because they were recruiting him at DT. We recruited him at the 5 tech. I know he's been practicing at the 3 tech, but it doesn't seem like he has the requisite size to play there. I would love to sit in on a few practices to see what areas he needs improving, and why he isn't seeing the field.
That's 11 bodies, which is enough to have a healthy 3.7 deep at those 3 positions. I'm most worried about Nose though.
I feel comfortable with Pipkins playing there, but who knows if he can come back from the injury that quickly. I feel comfortable with Henry playing there, but who is going to spell him? Ash/Hurst/Mone? Ash hasn't made too big of an impact yet, Mone is an incoming freshman, and Hurst hasn't seen the field much as a freshman. Makes me a bit nervous when looking at depth.
I don't think we bank the scholarship for the RB. We need a RB this year with both Norfleet and Hayes moving to the slot.
Maybe we offer someone like Jeff Jones who is considered a "soft commit" to Minnesota.
Berkeley Edwards, man...
Yeah...what we need is another small running back that the coaches can move to slot receiver and rarely use. That's the ticket!
At least Braylon will have found someone finally worthy of wearing the #1 jersey.
and another reason he needs to be canned...not playing a fast/dangerous player like Norfleet is completely idiotic
I don't think that Norfleet is a fast as you think he is. He is very quick, but appears to lack that final gear to pull away from defenders he has beaten/made miss initially.
No, Norfleet is very fast. He just doesn't get a shot to get up to full speed all that often. He's dangerous in kick off returns because he can change direction so quickly, but after you change direction it takes a while to get up to full speed. And we've only seen him on a few offensive plays, but when he gets the ball on a sweep, he's moving.
He might be fast but he couldn't outrun the OSU player on his long kickoff return that got called back.
I don't remember exactly how that return happened, but you can get rundown by a player slower than you if they had a good angle, or if they started running sooner. It's also possible that the OSU player is also very fast. They have some pretty good athletes on their team too. And you're always slower carrying the ball than when you're just chasing someone down.
That was sarcasm based on the idea of pulling a running back away from Minnesota.
Ah...didn't realize it was sarcasm...
Isn't the general rule of thumb that every recruiting class ought to include at least 1 QB, 1 RB, and 4-5 OLs? Recent history suggests M would be wise to follow the rule, no?
With QB and RB, yes. Four to five offensive linemen could be overkill. I think it's probably closer to 3-4. Those guys are interchangeable so it just kind of depends on attrition.
Yeah, 4-5 OL per class adds up to around 20-25 OL across all classes. That is a bit much if you ask me. Even if 1 or 2 leave early. 2-3 more transfer. Then your looking at 15-20 scholarships on OL at any given time.
Especially since we took 10 over the last two classes, all of whom are still on the team.
If we're going by open scholarships and seniors graduating, this class has spots for 16 players. We currently have 16 commitments. So "technically" there are zero spots remaining.
The question about secret, last-minute flips always bugs me because if we knew about them in mid-December, they wouldn't be secret, last-minute flips. We didn't know about Roy Roundtree, Willie Henry, Tamani Carter, Dennis Norfleet, etc. in December of their respective years, so I'm not sure why this question gets raised.
It gets raised because U-M football didn't play last weekend nor will they play this weekend so all we got left is baseless guesswork on recruiting.
I suppose it is also a byproduct of this class being well on its way to being done before this football season even started...come what used to be a hot recruiting time is rather tame.
There will be attrition. There is always attrition.
The class of 2015 is scheduled to be at 13, which is right about where this recruiting cycle started before there was a little attrition. So we'll probably have similar sized recruiting classes in both 2014 and 2015.
Will our early enrollees this year create more spots for 2015?
IIRC, teams can only back-count if they stay below 85 scholarship limit.
If I'm figuring correctly, we won't be able to backdate any of the early enrollees this year. They'll all count toward the 2014 class.
The 2012 class had 25 players with 3 early enrollees (all eligible to be backdated, prior class had 20). That left 3 spots open (25 max per year) to be backdated in 2013 by early enrollees. Last years class was 27, so if you take out the 3, we have one spot left in the 2013 class to backdate. This is all probably irrelevent because if you dont take more than 20 players, there is no advantage to backdating. The max you can backdate is 5, and there would already be 5 open spots for the following class.
As mentioned, the main issue is the 85 scholarship limit which we are right on the nose, pending unrenewed fifth years and attrition. So yes, I believe we could backdate one but that would only be relevent if we took more than 20 players this year.
The small class would create room for 2015 if we had more than 25 scholarships available to get to 85. Otherwise, it's sort of meaningless. I guess you should always backdate the maximum number you can, just in case you find yourself in an unanticipated attrition related jam. But well run programs generally shouldn't need more than 25 scholarships in a year to get to 85 on the roster.
I've heard that Stefon Diggs is coming to the Big House next year...
The wittiest comment I have seen all day...maybe all week. You are one funny fucker.
Yes indeed. Stefon Diggs is coming to the Big House. Nov. 22, 2014 to be exact.
|Sat., Nov. 22||vs. Maryland *||Michigan Stadium|
Given our recent deficits, I'm guessing Hoke won't be banking any scholarships any time soon. Clearly, M can't recruit too many linemen.
And although M is currently at its limit -- 16? -- more slots will open up after the bowl game. It's inevitable that players will transfer, quit, or not return for the fifth years. No way M stands pat at 16. I bet it ends up at about 20.
Would make a great nose tackle. Plus I hear he has 2 years eligibility remaining. I also know that TVH has been following Bobo's career on a weekly basis for the past few years. Where is TVH when you need him? Cue the TVH search light.
But if I ever had a hair transplant, Bobo's stringy mop would be one of my top choices.
For reference because someone might ask, here the link to Rivals' list of current 2014 commits - (HERE)
Long story short, right now we're looking at 2 DBs, 1 DE, 2 DTs, 4 LBs, 2 OLs, 1 QB, 1 TE and 3 WRs in our class as it stands. If I did the database query right, there would be 28 as-yet uncommitted players with at least 3-stars and at least "medium" interest in Michigan.
|ATH||Adoree' Jackson||5 stars||6.1|
|RB||Leonard Fournette||5 stars||6.1|
|DB||John Smith||5 stars||6.1|
|RB||Nathan Starks||4 stars||5.8|
|LB||Kenny Young||4 stars||5.9|
|DE||Malik McDowell||4 stars||6|
|LB||Nyles Morgan||4 stars||5.9|
|DE||Lorenzo Featherston||4 stars||5.8|
|DB||Steven Parker||4 stars||6|
|LB||Dwight Williams||4 stars||5.8|
|DT||Marcus Griffin||4 stars||5.8|
|TE||Bryce Dixon||4 stars||5.8|
|DB||Erick Smith||4 stars||5.9|
|ATH||Marshon Lattimore||4 stars||6|
|OL||Braden Smith||4 stars||6|
|ATH||Jay MacIntyre||3 stars||5.5|
|WR||Tyre McCants||3 stars||5.6|
|ATH||Michael Farmer||3 stars||5.5|
|DB||Anthony Davis||3 stars||5.7|
|LB||Jamal Davis||3 stars||5.6|
|DT||Daniel Cage||3 stars||5.7|
|ATH||Dionte Sykes||3 stars||5.5|
|OL||Andrew Mike||3 stars||5.6|
|OL||Richie Wenzel||3 stars||5.5|
|DT||Jemal Averette||3 stars||5.5|
|DB||Ladarius Wiley||3 stars||5.5|
|LB||Ismael Murphy-Richardson||3 stars||5.7|
|LB||Sean Bowens||3 stars||5.5|
I would almost think you were waiting for the most opportunistic time to post that. Great info. Thanks.
I want Tyre McCants to join the class because obvious things are obvious...
need to know how you embedded the buttons in the post. Board ninja.
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Assuming no attrition, I don't think we have any spots left. Obviously, the coaches know about or are expecting some attrition and/or non-renewed 5th year scholarships (Don't speculate on who). If we don't fill the 2 spots or whatever it ends up being, we'll bank the scholarship and/or hand it out to walk-ons.
Erick Smith plz!! Moar Safeties!!!!
other than McDowell, Smith would be the one we have the best shot at. But, I'm not sure he has had an official visit here. Someone correct me on that if he has. If we don't get him to take an official here, he's not likely to commit.
There is always some surprise attrition at the end of the season and always a surprise flip.
I think there will be room for a few more players if Brady Hoke wants to fill the spaces.
I've given up on McDowell
Has he given up on you?
At this point it should be McDowell and maybe one other player. See if there's a late bloomer or late flip. There can't be much more room in the class for more than two.
Burke and Hardaway Jr.
Does Pallante have a brother? We need more 2-stars that WANT TTO BE HERE in my humble opinion. Can't have enough guys who want to be here. That's what counts at the end of the day. That want to be here-ness.
2 star mafia? You want his brother to be Ray Vinopal?
Its been discussed here numerous times that we won't bank a scholarship.
just saw on 247 that Fred Jackson is McDowells lead recruiter. why isn't it Mattison or Roy Manning?
Detroit is Fred Jackson's recruiting area. Mattison recruits mostly in Ohio and Texas, I believe, and Roy Manning handles the East Coast.
Coaches are assigned by region I believe. Jackson has local dudes.
I understand that we already have several (3 I believe) on the roster, but I have not seen one truly emerge as a blocker. Like many positions I also understand that there is a great deal of youth at the position. Still, for as much as we have criticized the young o-line, the young fullbacks have been equally unimpressive IMO.
Countless times this season our FBs missed fairly simple head to head lead blocks. Most of the time it did not ultimately matter because Green (insert back) was being bottled up behind the LOS. The scary part for me was that on many of those plays even if the RB would have escaped initial push/pressure he would have almost certainly been tackled by an LB that either destroyed the block of our FB or simply avoided it, making us look like fools.
I am being very tough on our FBs but I am
yet to see that just mean, meathead that is willing to essentially sacrifice life and limb to spring a block for our HB.
If manball is indeed the future of this squad it is essential that we find that guy. Maybe it will be Kerridge, who seems to lead the way. (possibly due to experience) maybe it will be Houma or a converted Shallman. It's possible it could end up being a hybrid type like Hill.
I just hope someone emerges because as of yet I have not seen a true standout at FB. I expect one to emerge I just hope
It is this next season. Takes an interesting cat to play such a physical position. Would love to see a FB who could even arty the ball here and there and mush a D-line on short yardage if his number is called.