10 Predictions for Thursday's game vs MSU
1. Zack Novak will be suspended for the Iowa game.
2. Between the MSU and Iowa game, I will break down and buy a "0" jersey I will likely never wear.(I'm too old for such things).
3. Some fan will be kicked out of the game for chanting something that is most likely factual(No, I do not have tickets)
4. The officiating will be painfully home cooked, but will not really affect the outcome of the game.
5. Michigan will set a record for missed 3 point shots
6. Kalin Lucas will pick up his dribble just inside half court, take 7 steps into the lane, and draw a foul on someone tall and caucasian.
7. This will occur 15-25 times.
8. Two hoped for but unexpected football recruits soften the pain of yet another spartan victory
9. I will fantasize about acts of violence against multiple spartan co-workers
10. The small fickering flame of hope I have nurtured in my soul will be crushed, leaving nothing but bitter ash.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:21 PM ^
Everyone loves an optimist.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:24 PM ^
While we may not win the game (I think it should actually be a close game), all the chants that I will be doing with the rest of the student section will make me feel much better.
IF YOU CAN'T GET INTO COLLEGE, GO TO STATE! *clap clap*
or is that only hockey..? either way, great song
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:27 PM ^
to like anything having to do with Sparty.
I don't know if can watch us lose to them yet again.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:27 PM ^
Obviously I would say this all the time, but now especially: I would love to beat State this week. That would just reaffirm their slide of a year.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:29 PM ^
That Hardaway kid is really impressive, particularly as a true frosh. I look for him to have a nice game against us. Possibly Novak and Douglass as well; it seems like we've been giving up a lot of threes.
I think your team will make a better showing than many M fans probably think.
I look forward to a good, competitive game that may go down to the wire.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:43 PM ^
Hopefully. I might be making the trip to EL with a couple of buddies of mine, and I would really not enjoy watching us get blown out from the Izzone.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:12 PM ^
I love the Izzone. However, I must say that, while most should be good natured towards you if you are towards them, there can be some real pricks there.
If you go, good luck to you; I hope we treat you with class. I'll be interested to know if that's the case or not.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
I definitely would not advertise my fandom a whole lot. I would be going with some State fans, so I think the potential razzing would be mitigated by that somewhat, but yeah there are pricks there, here, and everywhere. It goes with the road-game experience. However, if Novak were to hit a game-winning three, I'd lose it. I'll try to represent U of M well.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:23 PM ^
if Novak were to hit a game-winning three, I'd lose it.
I must admit, a small part (note: a VERY small part) of me would welcome this. Rivalries like this one should have more turnover to keep them interesting.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:11 PM ^
I'm sure a lot of OSU fans would say the same thing about a Denard game-winning touchdown with no time left on the clock this November.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:25 PM ^
or attempt to plow their heads into sewer drains, and when this doesn't work, sit in the gutters contemplating failure.
To the extent that they can engage in the activity of contemplation anyway.
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:35 PM ^
Well said.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:30 PM ^
We will go down by 15 points and come back only to lose by 2.
It's this teams ability to come back that always keeps me watching... a blessing and a curse.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:33 PM ^
12. There's a much happier "10 Prediction" post in anticipation for Saturday's game at the Joe
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:31 PM ^
Sweet post.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:36 PM ^
Oh, wait. I just reversed the reverse jinx. Oh, good, I did it again. Damn - no I mean I really want them to lose. There fixed. Crap. No, I mean i want them to win. Shit...
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^
And become the medicine to cure whatever ills Izzo's team has had over the last month or so. But tell me, what if we win? Or, what if we lose, but keep it close? Or what if we win, but then still end up as the bottom dweller in the B10?
My point is, this is just one game and now having observed this years body of work so far, I am less than impressed and quite concerned that Belein is just a older, smarter, yet just as effective version of Tommy Amaker (he was a very nice guy too).
Bottom line, Belein is not getting the job done, period. Save the excuses in infrastructure issues, "constraints" in recruiting, blah, blah, blah. That crap is just an excuse to rationalize the current state.
What really spoke volumes to me was Belein basically getting rid of all his assistants from last year. That told me he is covering his ass and trying to buy himself time. I think he is in over his head and situationally mis-placed... Just like RR.
It is time for a new BB coach.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^
Bottom line, Belein is not getting the job done, period. Save the excuses in infrastructure issues, "constraints" in recruiting, blah, blah, blah. That crap is just an excuse to rationalize the current state.
While telling people to save the excuses and rationalizations, you failed to provide an actual argument for why Belein is a bad coach other than saying he isn't getting the job done. To me, this team doesn't have the talent that the Kansas/Syracuse/OSU of the world currently do, but are still able to push these top 5 teams to the brink. No one expected a good year with the loss of Sims and Harris, and the way we've played has been a pleasant suprise to me, despite the current skid.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:16 PM ^
But, lets talk about the loss of Sim and Harris. What happened to our team last year, with these Sr/Jr. led talent? What were the results on the court? And where are the recruits, that Belein is responsible and accountable to bring in to the program that should be picking up where Sims/Harris left off? Remember, he is in year 4 and has had one more year than RR to work with. He actually started out with more and generated less than RR has from a progress perspective.
You are correct again, the team just does not have the talent. That is a primary responsibility of the Head Basketball Coach of any program in the country, right? Being a good coach, in any sport, is more than just being a great "X's" and "O's" guy, right? Or do you need me to be more specific?
So, if he is a great "scheme" coach, as recognized by most, but does not recruit well, cannot pick his assistants well (he changed all of them), does not produce Big Ten championship calibur play (meaning his players are not learning this "superior scheme" and tranlating it into "W''s"), his team's have the same identities as Tommy A's teams, (lots of player only, players driven meetings there too), I say the coach is not an effective one.
If the goal for the BB program is to maintain mediocrity, I say Belein is the right coach. He is a nice guy though, just like Tommy was. I guess we are witnessing the difference in accountablity between the football and basketball programs. My obvious frustration is as a long time alum and fan, my expectations are so different from what I am observing.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^
If you want to invite me to your 15th birthday party, I can explain to you in detail why you are coming off like somone who knows nothing about basketball and why you are the poster child for what many of us hate about message boards.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:24 PM ^
Difference in Brandon's views of bball and fable. One can certainly argue that bball is in worse shape. Yet coach B is endorsed by DB. Just look at the empty seats and no all-big 10 talent. We have ONE conference win. We are a mess.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^
Instead of "VAGoBlue," use "VaGoBlue."
The first thing I see is "VAG." Then that's all I can see.
The lower case "a" would help I think.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:50 PM ^
It's not that great either way. VaG is almost as bad as VAG.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:53 PM ^
But I think it's at least a little better, broken up a bit. I think it would have been best to go with "GoBlueVA" or "GoBlueFromVA."
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:17 PM ^
Now I'm sorry I started this thread. I thought you all would get a chuckle out of my self-destructive Michigan Basketball psychosis. I didn't intend the rip Beilein fest. The guy is doing the best he can, and when he tells his players that each and every one of them will play in the NCAA tournament I believe him. That is all I want for them and for myself as a Michigan fan.
I like CB's game a lot, and I think he is going to add a lot next year. It's not time to give up on Beilein yet. Keep an eye on the high school juniors he is going after. If this staff cant lock up a Gary Harris or a Jordan Hare it might be time to look at one of DB's "contingency plans" just to be on the safe side, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities that next year or two years from now Beilein starts to string tournament appearances together.
The part I like about Beilein's system is that it increases variance to the point that they've got a shot against far superior teams. It also leaves them susceptible to losing to Indiana. When Beilein was brought in, variance was our friend.
Michigan had really dug themselves a hole in basketball. That post fab five era of rumors and doubt was worsened by the Universitie's overreaction. Look at OSU. They self-report the minor stuff and keep on rolling. We operated in fear an denial for years. Then Bill Martin turned his back on the basketball program all together.
As DB pulls the facilites out of the dark ages, it remains to be seen if Beilein can draw good recruits to the program and find consistency--whether that means adapting his system or not.
Either way we have got to give him a chance.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:53 PM ^
I get a lot of shit on this board for being a dick, and being douchey, but you're the reason I am like I am. I may be a dick but you will never here me badt mouth anything about MICH. I love this University, I love their Athletic programs. We don't need fuckheads like you hating on what Beezer is trying to do.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:04 PM ^
I couldn't agree more. It's our job as fans to cheer as hard as possible and to love our University more than anything (maybe family can be thrown in above it..) and it pisses me off when "fans" constantly complain about the program. No matter who the coach is or how they're running the program, we should cheer and place our trust in whoever's running the program.
Sorry for the rant... but GO BLUE!
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:38 PM ^
or steve fisher. You should never just be blindly loyal to anything, let alone a university sports program.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:26 PM ^
Belein is not getting it done. I am not bad mouthing anything. To the contrary, point to the facts. And the facts state that we have a below average basketball program and the head coach is not generating the results from a W and L perspective, a recruiting perspective, and player management perspective, and even struggling with assistant coaches.
This comes from a long time alum and fan that bleeds bluer than most.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:40 PM ^
This is a team that only has two juniors as upperclassmen. You have Hardaway Jr, Smotrycz., and Horford seeing a ton of playing time as true freshmen. Jordan Morgan is a Redshirt Freshman. D-Mo is a sophomore. Vogrich is a sophomore. Give this team a chance to grow a little bit.
Oh and Beilein has done a very very good job in recruitinig. We're gonna be just fine.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:58 PM ^
January 23rd, 2011 at 7:29 PM ^
I may not like your avatar, but your thinking is top notch, +1 to you.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:03 PM ^
I am just going to start telling people when they post dumb things.....this is really fucking dumb. If you can't see the differences between Amaker and Beilein then you don't know a fucking thing about basketball.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:13 PM ^
Tenth in the big 10??? losing record likely. 3of4 years. Marginal recruiting classes. Let coach B retire.
January 23rd, 2011 at 4:41 PM ^
Let me criticize the OP in a condescending way.... criticism. Followed by vague statement against the OP's statement backed by 0 facts. This was your post.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^
Facts:
1. The team doesn't have a single fucking senior on it. That would not at all be Beilein's fault as this was not his class. Usually this makes a difference.
2. We are starting 3 freshmen, a sophomore, and a Junior.
3. We went to the tournament for the first time since the OP was born (as I am guessing he is about 8). We did it by starting a walk-on point guard and a walk-on back up point guard.
4. We have just as much talent as plenty of teams in the B10, they are just young, inexperienced, weak, and inconsistent. Every one of those things will get better as they become, you know, fucking upperclassmen.
5. Being an X's and O's guy is extremely helpful when your players are upperclassmen because they have had plenty of time to learn the game from you. This is why, as Beilein is quite a good basketball teacher, we should improve by leaps and bounds over the next couple years.
I really didn't think I need to state all of these facts but apparently there are quite a few dumbasses who don't understand basketball and don't really like to live in the reality that is our basketball program.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:31 PM ^
second off, what makes you think I know nothing about basketball.
1. You are right about the 0 seniors, but some of that blame does go on Beilein. Both Manny and Udoh would have been seniors on this team. We can argue until we are blue in the face about who the blame falls on for that. I personally think Udoh was a result of several factors that may have been uncontrollable. Manny was probably a result of just being done with the college game after a disappointing season.
2. The fact that we start 3 freshman in Beilein's fourth season is an indictment of JB's recruiting. Not one of those freshman was an instant impact player. Not one is a one and done prospect, not one was a top 50 player in high school. The fact that 3 not so highly recruited players can come in and start in a coach's 4th year is an indication of said coach's recruiting prowess.
3. We did go to the tournament for the first time in 11 years in 08-09. However, we probably would have gone to the tournament in 02-03 if not for self imposed probation. So, it's not like we haven't had good seasons in 11 years, quite the contrary actually.
4. We may or may not have as talent as most big ten teams, which is a very subjective argument in an of itself. I don't argue that JB is a better developer of talent than Amaker. However, we lack the top end talent that even Northwestern has found in Crawford, Thompson and Shurna. All 3 of those guys would start on our team, hell the freshman version of those guys would start on this team.
5. Arguing that we should improve by leaps and bounds is again subjective. One could argue the basketball team should have improved last year based on who returned. The bottom line is you never know.
See how easy that was. No name calling, and no condescending remarks. I do think this team will get better, and I am willing to give JB next year. It would be hypocritical of me to think otherwise, as I was all for keeping RR, if you couldn't get Harbaugh. I do think that next year is going to be a "show me" year. This team needs to be able to compete in the big ten AND make the NCAA tournament in what will be JB's fifth year. I just don't know if we have the talent to do so.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:38 PM ^
Calm, measured and logical.
January 23rd, 2011 at 6:31 PM ^
First off, I'm going to be condascending to those posters who deserve it. Saying "he is in year 4, we suck, he needs to be fired" is not insightful, says absoultely nothing about the team, and is better suited for MLive or the Freep boards. I feel like everyone forgets that, yes, he did get some decent players, and he took them to the tournament, something Amaker couldn't.
Second, I will keep saying that you don't know jack shit about basketball if you continue to tell me that we don't have talent on this basketball team. You and quite a few other posters need to actually live in the reality that is our basketball team. The only thing Beilein did that was less than stellar so far was having a 1st recruiting class of only Novak and Douglass. I love them but they need to be more role players. I don't know how many times it can be said, but we have one of the youngest teams in all of college basketball. They have already shown me enough to think there is plenty of talent on the team. Morris is up there with McCamey as the best PGs in the B10, Hardaway would be arguably the best freshman in the B10 if it weren't for Sullinger, Smotrycz was one of the 50 best players in the nation last year, and Douglass just passed Glen Rice for most 3 pointers made at Michigan (as a Junior). That is plenty of talent, just extremely young. I didn't mention Jordan Morgan, who is 2nd in the B10 in field goal percentage. Why don't you tell me all of the freshmen in the B10 making as big of an impact as any of our freshmen (Other than Sullinger because he won't be around to get better after this year unless you count in the NBA).
I agree, having Udoh and Manny on the team would be awesome. Considering both of them are in the NBA, I don't know why you think they would still be on the team this year anyway.
You can say we probably would have gone to the tourney in 02-03, but that doesn't mean we would have. Also, I think you are a little confused. 04 is the season we could have possibly gone to the tournament, but that year we didn't have a postseason ban as we won the NIT. We appealed and won the 2nd year of postseason ban, therefore the only year we couldn't have gone to the NCAA tournament was 02-03, in which we won 17 games. Either way, we didn't go to the tournament with Amaker. We did with Beilein. That's all that matters. Having a good season doesn't mean shit when you don't make the tourney.
I'm just sick of our fans not realizing the limits of our teams. Can we beat really good teams? Yes. Can we lose to really shitty teams? Absolutely. Read again what I said about our team and evaluate them. The large knocks on this team: inconsistent, weak inside, bad shot selection. Will all of those most certainly get better with more strength and conditioning and more experience? Yes. There is a reason why there are 6 freshmen and sophomores total in the top 30 scorers in the B10 (hardaway and DMo being 2 of those 5, Sullinger, a one-and-done, being another). There is a reason why there are 4 freshmen and sophomores total in the top 20 rebounders in the B10 (Morgan being one of those, Sullinger another). There is a reason that only 3 freshmen and sophomores are in the top 15 assist men in the B10 (Morris coming in at #2). I feel like a broken record....freshmen and sophomores, unless they are one-and-dones, are not likely to be huge contributors to a basketball team. These are the exception, not the rule.
January 23rd, 2011 at 7:11 PM ^
first off I never said we didn't have talent. I said we lack the talent to be a top tier Big ten program, which we do. We lack the talent in the paint to keep up with the Wisconsin's, Illinois', Minnesota's, let alone the MSU and OSU's.
Clarification, you do realize he took the nucleus of what would be Amaker's team to the tournament. Outside of Douglass and Novak, Amaker recruited that team. We would have been in the tournament hands down in 02-03. We won 10 big ten games and finished 17-13 after starting 0-6. We finished 3rd in the Big Ten. I would bet a dollar that no team has ever finished 3rd in a major conference, won 10 games and not been invited to the tourney since it expanded to 64.
Players having a better season than Hardaway: Sullinger, Appling, Terone Johnson, Meyers Leonard. He is probably a candidate for Big ten all freshman. But not a candidate for FOY, even without Sullinger.
Morris is not up there with McCamey as best PG. Hell, he might not be in the upper echelon: McCamey, Jackson, Thompson, Lucas, and Taylor are all playing better than Morris right now. The thing Morris has on all of them is youth, and a lack of high end talent around him.
Smotz didn't end up in the top 50. I believe the highest he was ranked was on rivals at 59 or something.
6 of 30 and 4 of 20 = 20%. Which if talent is evenly distributed across classes (which it isn't) would be about right for freshman contributions to a basketball team. Assuming you had even talent among the 4 classes. 1 of 4 = 25%.
Look I am not going to argue any further with you. I can make up all kinds of stats that say Beilein will never make this team an every year competitor in the big ten. It's not worth the time and effort. I know plenty about basketball, and more importantly I know that some people can't be convinced of anything in the face of facts.
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:08 PM ^
I agree. We definitely don't have the talent to hang with OSU. I mean, if we did, we would have lost by way less than 4 to them.
I am going to also bet that no team has ever lost to St. Bonaventure, Central Michigan, Western Michigan, and an 11-18 VaTech team to end up 17-13 and made the tournament. Just ending up 3rd (in which we were tied with 3 other teams with more wins than us) is not enough, especially when you lose your first game in the B10 tourney. This is why out of conference games are so important. Starting out 0-6 and then playing ok in a mediocre B10 does not mean we would have made the tourney.
You don't need to argue with me anymore if you think Kalin Lucas is playing better than Darius Morris. I think you are confusing "team winning" with "playing well." And to suggest Morris isn't one of the best PGs in the B10 is pretty fucking dumb. He is 2nd in assists, in the top 10 in scoring, and in the top 5 in assist-to-turnover ratio (the top stats you use to determine if a PG is playing well). I guess those stats aren't ones you like to use...you just use sayings like "trust me, he isn't upper echelon" and "trust me, these players are having better seasons."
Also, I am guessing you won't see the irony in you saying that the team Beilein took to the tournament was with Amaker's recruits. This means Beilein got it done where Amaker couldn't. Unless your thinking is that some of the players like Manny and Peedi needed to get more experience, in which case I am guessing you don't see the irony in that either.
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:37 PM ^
not top 10 either, unless you want to count the out of conference schedule which was beefed up by some big games against inferior competition. I provided the link below for "factual verification".
Ask any State fan, any Wisconsin fan, any Purdue fan, and any Northwestern fan if they would trade their pg for Morris. I bet you wouldn't get many takers. Look he is young and he could be great, but he is not there yet. He won't be all big ten first or second team. If he does make that I will admit I was wrong. Doubt you would do the same.
As far as 02-03 goes, pretty much everyone that does bracketology admitted Michigan would be in if they weren't on probation. guess we'll never know.
Great we lost to osu by 4 points. close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Iowa played OSU close, is their talent on par with OSU, of course not.
Look JB did a great job in 08-09, not so much last year or the year after with his recruits. I find it ironic that JB's system players have yet to provide a winning season outside of that. Amaker had 2 losing seasons in 6 years, with one being the year the entire team got hurt and Horton suspended and rightfully so. This will be JB's 3rd out of 4. Cant argue that.
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:56 PM ^
You know what your factual verification shows me....2 of the PGs you said were having better seasons than Darius Morris have worse numbers than him in both yearly stats and B10 stats. I still can't believe you think Lucas and Jackson are having a better year than Morris. I get you think Beilein can't coach, but if even the facts that he is statistically doing better than both Lucas and Jackson in nearly every category in OOC and B10 games shows me that you don't really care about the actual team, you just want to have an opinon and put it out there for everyone to think its stupid. But go ahead, tell me how all of those teams would tell you they wouldn't want Morris.
I also think it is funny that you stated JB will have his 3rd losing season out of 4 seasons and then say "can't argue that." Actually, you can you moron. I am not saying he will have a winning record, but to proclaim you know the future and we will end up with a losing season is pretty fucking stupid. Although it is about on par with all of your other basketball related posts where you skew your stats and spout off about the talent of the youngest team in the B10.
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:29 PM ^
on the record this season. It ain't happening, barring some miracle where every team tanks. They would have to play almost .500 ball from here out. It's called a safe bet. In the most important stat of all Jackson and Lucas are having better seasons, thats W's in case you missed it. good night.
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:27 PM ^
Now I know you don't really care about actual facts. Why didn't you use OSU's PG as a better player than Morris? I know why, because when it was apparent your "stats" weren't what you thought they were and I proved you don't have a fucking clue about basketball, you fell back on "well, at least they are winning games." But you are right, I am the one who is putting incorrect stats out there. Go home troll.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:07 PM ^
craft is not better than morris, that's why. Plus they use Buford as a defacto pg. But you probably already knew that.
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
I think Morris will be a very good player when it is all said and done, but sometimes mediocre players have inflated stats because of the teams they play on (ie Elton Brand). Eyeball test tells me he has a ways to go. Lucas is coming off injury and health is improving - I haven't watched much Spartan basketball, but I would take a struggling Kalin Lucas any day of the week....
January 23rd, 2011 at 11:43 PM ^
You know what's funny, if Morris continues to have the same numbers he has put up thus far, he will have better numbers than Kalin Lucas has ever had (that includes when he is healthy). Amazing he can be "mediocre." So you haven't watched much Spartan basketball....have you watched any Michigan basketball? Maybe you want to do an "eyball test" on Lucas.