Does the diarist take a -1 for every -1 that's given in the comments? I don't think that's true.
Thumbs Down on the New Voting System
Recently…yesterday, I believe…there appeared little up and down arrows at the side of each post allowing you to vote on whether you like or dislike a particular post. On the surface, this might seem like a good idea; but there are two reasons that come to mind immediately for me as to why this is a bad idea.
I liked the idea of points [did not like that they were not retroactive…it was not fun starting over like a n00b when the 20 point minimum was suddenly imposed] as it forces you to earn your stripes before posting something more substantial.
I very much dislike the voting. The first reason is practical. There is no explanatory post and how it works does not seem altogether clear. It seems that if I write a blog entry, I am getting dinged for every negative vote given in the whole thread. Not cool. Why would I post a diary entry if that were the case? All it takes is one idiot to post a response and, wham, I am losing bunches of points. Or if a thread devolves, the “owner” of the thread bears the brunt of this. I am sure this is correctable, but it seems that this is how it is working at the moment. If this is how it is working, not a good way of doing it.
My second and most important reason for disliking the voting, is its anonymity. It is one thing to disagree with or dislike something I have to say and then take the time to stand behind your opinion by posting a reply. Some people can be lightning rods, offering the contrarian opinion. Even if that contrary position is well thought out, a person can be blackballed without anyone having to stand up and own up to their dislike for the opinion. It also lends itself to a mob mentality and clique behaviour. The thought of someone being “punished” for something they say and never knowing who it was who voted against them, and those who give the “thumbs down” never having to own up to their negative opinion strikes me as a fundamentally bad idea. A person should have the right to face their accusers. I think there will also be the popularity vote, that is, the guys who are part of the “in” crowd getting undeserved positive votes.
Now, if you were to have positive votes only, in that you could add a “thumbs up” to a particularly good post, I might be in favour of that. But I believe that in the end, the best way to police abusive posters is to report them and if you have a critique you should man up and post it with your name behind it, report it to Brian for follow up and if you won’t do either of those two things, frankly you don’t deserve to have your opinion heard, let alone be give the opportunity to give an anonymous and repercussion free “thumbs down.”
I don't know...all I know is that I suddenly dropped about 10 points in mgopoints total and could not track down enough negative points on my entries to account for the drop, so the explanation that seems to make sense is that as the owner of the diary post, I am recieving the brunt of the +1 -1 votes. That may not be the case, but there has been no explanation one way or the other. Perhaps it was an unintended effect?
So the entry gets its own rating independent of the poster? I guess that's better, but still, all that is going to happen is that the Barking Sphincter and other Spartys are going to run around downgrading every post. Not that this matters in the larger scheme of things.
Either that or the Sphincter will get unfairly dinged even if he were to write something that might be well recieved, simply because he is perpetually contrarian and a Spartyphile.
I was wrong. They do affect your mgopoints. The Sphincter now has 6. Didn't he used to have a lot? Just his last two Diary entries alone is worth 20. He is plummeting like a meteor.
Actually he is down to -13 at the last count. I kinda feel bad for the dude and this proves my "in/out" clique thing. He may be a nuicance, but to ding him like this not right either. I personally will not use the voting system.
I think he had almost 200 points. That is insane how much he dropped. Now he can't create a topic.
I think we can use the Barking Sphincter as a case study for why the point system is a bad thing. You may not like him or his opinions, but for him to take this kind of hit. Even a thorn in the side contrarian who is a mediocre thinker and writer deserves to be treated better than that. I did not get the sense that the guy is a total ass, but even if that were the case, there is a better way to handle this than that. Report him and have him banned if he is that big a problem.
Everyone who voted him thumbs down and erased his points should be ashamed of themselves. Cowards.
Now he has like 99 points. Wierd.
Edit: Now he has 132. What is going on with his points?
You can vote for yourself. The Sphincter posts a ton. I think he must be running around old threads giving himself +1 to offset all the hate.
I think Brian gave him his points back.
If you look at his earliest posts (a year ago!), he is the only one that has a +1 on all of his posts. Of course everyone else on the old threads are at zero.
I was just curious and just looked at some of the old threads. I guess he really wants to keep his ability to post here quite a lot.
Whoa. That is sort of pathetic.
I just didn't want to go that far.
I don't think your own votes count for your total. Otherwise--inherent stupidity and mischief. I mean, I have like 20 points and at one time had well over 100. Every post I make has about -10 or more points.
Yeah, fucking Einstein, there's a whole lot of good that would do me.
Unless I just started posting 1200 times a day, in which case there would be 1200 more oportunities for the kids at the WLA to vote 5 times to my one. I'm no mathmetician, but that tells even me that it won't add up.
But, carry on with all your machinations. You will soon see me in your dreams, I'm sure (just ask dex).
you say Dex is obsessed with you, but this is about the 5th time I've seen (just ask dex) at the end of your post. Who's obsessed again?
But it's called "having fun" with dex's obsession with me. Although I'm not at all surprised at having to explain it to you, you should have understood that.
Yeah, fucking Einstein, there's a whole lot of good that would do me.
Well, then, why did you do it? Why in the world would anyone else go back to 1-year old threads and give you points, and no one else? Or are you going to blame Dex on setting you up.
Back to "one year old threads"??? WTF??? I don't have any one year old threads. I think it's been more than a year since I last looked in here, even--but I'm not sure. Wow, you people are truly pathetic. It is one thing to be one to go against the grain and get hammered, but the little-girl-rumor-mill-gossip-sniping is really starting to make this board pretty much a Scout twin.
It must be the same person who is docking all kinds of points on Chrisgocomment, Dex, WolveInLA etc. now in the old threads. Now why in the world would anyone be going into 50 week old threads and award (or deduct) points? Surprisingly, even yours are changed yet again.
Geez, all this for points.
just stop the barking sph...
I'm ashamed that you care. wait, no I'm not, that would be stupid.
About him...no...the principle of the matter...enough to post a diary...
ok, sure I can see your point (point). but with annoying persons such as the poster in question it's a good thing because the trolling he does will be moderated by the majority.
Oops. I am a coward, I guess. But I plead confusion at the time. I won't do it now.
At least you will speak your mind...the "cowards" post recieved three negative votes...so far...to the rest of you...cowards is what you are...
This is a bad weekend to irritate people.
I just went to another thread and gave myself and others points. If one can give oneself points, there could be mischief.
But that didn't seem to affect my mgopoints.
I tried that too, but it did not seem to affect my point total. I can game the system with the best of them. But that in itself exposes how rife this sort of thing is for all manners of abuses. I really dislike the idea of some illiterate snot being able to give me a thumbs down without ever having to put two English words together to offer up their critique...or even make an attempt at a put down...
Isn't it 2 per up votes and and -1 per down posts it seems to me that that situation would reduce the down trend for non troll posters am i right?
My only issue with the system is, at least for myself, I am more likely to vote against a bad post than I am to vote for a decent to good post. Unless I read something that is really well written, and even then not all the time, will I give it a +1. While reading something dumb or poorly written, I will be more inclined to vote against it.
Since people earn points for simply posting, as long as they don't post like idiots it is a net gain.
If people are going to take to effort and post, and if it is reasonably well thought out (or entertaining, informative, or humorous), it is worth a point.
That only encourages our discourse, which is why most of us are here, isn't it?
The posts that are intentionally offensive or stupid, I'll dock a point. All insipid posts, nothing.
For me, I figure that is roughly 10 +'s for every - .
Like most others on this site, I'm not here to wail on people.
I was reading through a thread earlier today, and there was an "conversation" between a couple users about Denard's other positions on the field. What bugged me is that neither poster was being offensive or annoying, just expressing their opinions to each other. One poster had a +6 on one post and the other had a -4 for just saying their opinions. Nothing was wrong with what they were saying... posters were voting based on agreeing and disagreeing with their positions, which was annoying...
do think that this will work out and that there will be a preponderance of positive (+) feedback rather than negative, but it might take a little while.
I hope so. Like everyone has said, the system will continue to be tweaked... I just hope that posters and voters realize that disagreeing with somebody does not mean that the post is meant as a trollish post and therefor worthy of a negative point. It's okay to disagree.
This isn't the final product. It's just the next step, like when points were first added and then Brian set the 20 point limit.
I imagine future steps involve limiting +/- to certain posters at any given time (I think Brian mentioned making moderating more Slashdot-ish, but I'm too lazy to look it up), a link to each mark in your "My mgopoints" page to let you know which exact message is getting rated, and an addition listing the name of the user giving you the rating. Brian mentioned that he would reset the point total when everything is finished, so that will let you know whether or not you should really be concerned.
Did I miss the FAQ on this, or are you privy to some sort of insider information?
My attempts to find stories mentioning them using the search bar have failed, and I can't find anything to let me quickly scroll through the archives. I'm looking for Brian's annual "offseason plans" story from December or January and another story that was posted around the time points were first introduced.
My concern is less practical and more philospphical. It is the principle of anonymous mob voting that troubles me. It is not an election or a vote on a contentious or divisive issue where anonymous voting allows for a free expression of opinion. This is simply the random "dinging" of something someone says. It is like being in a room full of people where a discussion is going on and someone slips you a note that reads, "I don't like what you have to say," with no name, nothing. They have every opportunity to voice their opinion as does everyone else, but instead choose to slip you a note. There is just something sinister, almost police statish about it.
Is getting voted down supposed to be considered a bad thing, or just what happens when you express an unpopular opinion to the commune? I don't take it personally. I've been banned from making comments on Scout.com for 3 yrs now.
I don't take it personally. I've been banned from making comments on Scout.com for 3 yrs now.
I not only have no problem with unpopular opinions being expressed, and if they are respectful and well-reasoned, they should be rewarded even by those who disagree.
That just stimulates intelligent discourse; which is why we are all here and not on Scout, I guess.
Maybe it's not working on Macs. But I'm not seeing the option to vote. It looks like some of my comments have earned me points, and I've never started a topic or posted a blog, so I think your assessment of the way things work is mistaken. EDIT: Duh, helpful person pointed out what to look for. I gave them a +1.
Anyway, I think your argument that "cool kids will vote in blocks to exert their will" is logically flawed if voting works the way you think it does. You might injure others in the short term, but you will also run the risk of injuring yourself or your posse.
In response to your first complaint, I imagine that Brian will have a post explaining the new point system at some near future point. Remember, it's a holiday weekend. Brian's allowed a few days off.
How wise is it to roll out a wrinkle to your website with no explanation and then take a couple days off...
This whole points thing may have the opposite of the desired effect. Kind of like "Tiger-proofing" a golf course by making it longer.
I assume the desired goal is to cut down on idiotic posts and reward quality. Well, initially it rewarded ANY post with a point. Therefore, any r-tarded bit of mental flatulence worthy of typing was rewarded with a point. One guy built up points by posting things like "Yeah!", "+1". etc.
Now, those same people get to vote on point totals. We are approaching idiocracy.
If Brian's goal is to increase the number of hits and turn this into a scout/rivals/mlive board, he may be onto something. If the goal is a quality discussion I think it will fail.
Just my humble epinion.
I will probably vote against any "Yeah, what he said!" post that looks like a blatant bid for points. So then the system will work. Unless you are amusing in your bids for points, in which case I'll probably laugh and let it go.
Solomon himself could not have stated this any better. On the date of our independence you have spoken with the sagacity of our founding fathers.
Blatant bid for points -1
Sucking up +1
do people make posts like that just to get points? i mean, there's no clear benefit to having more and more points. we don't get a free mgoblog t-shirt with 100 points do we?