New value... 5-Star Players behave as a Social Catalyst; No difference between 2-, 3- and 4-stars until the addition of 5-stars

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(Feel free to skip down to the "discussion" for 7 points that can be taken from this data... but, please make sure to first read the research-question the study was designed to answer.  Also, for those of you interested, the study-design is very clearly detailed; so please, only comment on design issues such as sample size if you have read the rationale... of course, if you disagree with the rationale or believe something to be missing, fire-away.)

Sometimes the benefit of writing in two parts is the inherent advantage of finding out what readers’ thoughts are.  After reviewing the comments on yesterday’s post (re: 2- vs. 3-star) I am left with the clear impression that I did not do a good job of explaining the research-question I was testing, nor the size of the sample and what populations it might represent.  I think the addition of today’s data will clear some of that up, as a few questions pertained to “why did you stop there… why not upper echelon teams?”  Today’s data is from the upper echelon.  But, I will take a moment to clear up the central issues of vagueness from yesterday.

First, the question this research answers… 

The most important part of using research to answer questions is assuring that the research was designed to answer the question being asked.  I was motivated to perform this analysis by the abundant number of times, on MGoBlog and elsewhere, that correlation of stars to draft status, or stars to team performance, has been confused with stars answering to the abilities and potential of individual players.  Among yesterday’s responses, I replied to wolverine1987 regarding this issue.

One question we might seek to answer is this:  “Does a recruit heading to Florida have a greater chance of being drafted than a recruit heading to Northern Illinois?”  There are two ways to answer this question: one is using your knowledge of team performance, which makes it quite obvious that the Gators are more likely to send a player to the NFL; the second is to look at the average number of players drafted from each school over the last 4 years, and assign a probability to the recruit’s chances.  Neither of these require recruiting rankings to be solved; but, yes, recruiting rankings do correlate to both.  However, I do not believe that the majority of football fans are curious as to whether recruits going to one school have a higher chance of being drafted than recruits going to another school...

My belief is that we would each like to know “if Michigan signs that 4-star DT out of Texas, will he be more likely to become an NFL-level contributor to our team than that 3-star DT out of Illinois?”  This question requires the star system to assess which players are actually better; it requires that their assessment of Joe X. as the #8 DT, vs. John Y. who they place as the #36 DT, to actually be a reliable measure of difference between the two, stating players’ talent and potential with measurable validity.  As you may have already figured out, correlating the probability of being drafted to all draftees’ recruiting stars, or correlating stars to teams’ performances does not isolate whether the stars actually correlated to individual players’ talents/potential. 

The probability of being drafted is impacted by talent/potential, coaching, team members, facilities, successfully proving oneself against high-level competition, and potentially even media exposure.  Therefore, to actually test whether stars correlate with draft success for individual players (which would answer the question of whether or not they accurately predict individual players’ abilities,) we have to isolate the probabilities of success within systems in which the levels of coaching, facilities, competition, and media exposure are as similar as possible (identical would be the impossible ideal.)  Otherwise, we are just answering the obvious:  Florida, who has a better coaching staff, better facilities, better competition, and more media exposure sends more players to the NFL on average than N. Illinois.

So, this brings us to sampling…

Obviously, a perfect sample would be finding one school that correlates perfectly to a well-defined group of schools.  The requirements for this perfect situation: 

  1. A large enough number of 2-, 3-, 4- and 5-star recruits at this single school to assure that a random distribution would be allowed to approach normal in regards to the success of recruits at this school developing into NFL-caliber players.
  2. A large enough number of NFL draftees to assure the same process of normalization is allowed (should there actually be normalization.)  If draft-status occurs at the same rate among 2-, 3-, 4- and 5-stars from this school, then we could say that a random assignment of stars to the same athletes would have produced the same result… this would mean the stars were not predictors of success.
  3. A group of schools to compare to, which themselves exactly share the “ideal school’s” traits of coaching, facilities, level of competition, and media exposure. 

Next, for the perfect assessment across all strata of collegiate football, we would have to hope that there are some perfectly segmented groups (4, 5…6?) These groups would be different from each other, but the schools in each group would be perfectly matched to each other.  Then, we could take a random member from each group and assess the behavior of its recruits’ success rates, projecting the results to all players within that segment of schools.

This is not the world we live in.  Hence, the inevitable arguments over sample selection and sample size.  No matter how well designed a study is, there will always be uncertainty that it achieved a fully representative sample.  If you are looking for answers of 100% accuracy, then do not look to science… it will always be chasing perfection, and never reach it.  But, looking at the world from a level of random chance vs. predicted order is useful for evaluating a system which is proclaimed to having found order among chaos (i.e. the star-system makes just such a claim, and must therefore be assessed versus randomness to see if recruiters are actually able to differentiate among the top 0.23% of high-school athletes.)

My sample selection…

For this study, which I broke into two analyses, I wanted to isolate players’ abilities from the impacts of coaching, facilities, etc.  In other words, I wanted to see if players’ development within a homogenous environment responded differently based on stars (as administered by Rivals.)  Hopefully we all agree that a study looking at all 119 teams would not isolate players in a homogenous environment.  Therefore, I am interested in assessing players within semi-homogenous sub-groups that, while not representative of 119 schools (or even 40 for that matter,) will offer a look at player development from within multiple strata of Div 1-FBS football.  Players will be compared to players within the same stratus.  

Because no single recruiting class from any single school produces enough NFL-draftees to allow for the possibility of normalization (should it actually occur,) I was forced to track multiple recruiting classes.  Considering that teams are also dynamic over the course of a decade, and that one of the major influences on a player is the players around him, I could not stretch this tracking too far (players selected in 2002 affect players in 2003 while players in 1996 do not affect them… of course, this is a good thing, because the star-system was not around in 1996.)  So I only allowed it to stretch to 4-years, basically representing a full team cycle (yes, I am aware that 5th year seniors blur this a bit… so 95% of a team-cycle.)  I also needed to be able to see the draft results for all four years of recruits… thus 2002-5 was the latest 4-year cycle I could consider such that I could cross-reference the 2005-9 drafts; and that also lines up with the first available Rivals data-base.  So, four recruiting classes of 2002-5 compared to the five drafts of 2005-9.  Again, 5th year seniors have not yet had the chance to be drafted; hopefully I will have time to revisit this data after the 2010 draft results are in.  I do not expect there to be much impact, but there is always the possibility.  (**Edit** I did not include kickers/punters in the counts of either recruits or draftees.)

Most teams did not have enough draftees over this four year period to allow strong normalization (USC the notable exception, with 30 draftees…)  So, it was obvious I would have to analyze small groups of schools…

Next, the first step to accomplishing isolation:  coaching.  As “bjk” so aptly pointed out yesterday, my study was constrained by coaching.  In fact, this was the strongest constraining factor on selection.    One of my concerns regarding the use of 4 recruiting classes, was the issue of environmental stability.  The factor which can most quickly impact the environment of player development is coaching… in other words, facilities take years to build and can’t be wholly replaced simultaneously while a coach takes a day to fire and a month to replace.  So, in order to assure stable environments to compare players within, I added a limitation to selection:  there could be no head-coaching change between 2002 and 2009.  Thus, all players assessed at the school received strongly similar tutelage (not accounting for position-coach changes.)  The one exception I made to this rule was Utah; I would not have felt comfortable that Boise and TCU were a large enough sample, with only 15 draftees… adding Utah’s 8 draftees makes me much more comfortable.  Off the top of my head, this gave me:  Boise, Cal, Florida St, Georgia, Iowa, tUOS (aka Bastards from Columbus,) Oklahoma, Oregon, Penn St, TCU, Texas, (Utah,) USC, and Va Tech.  Could I have spent hours researching every team in the nation?  Yes… but I was happy with a list of 14 schools.

The second step to accomplishing isolation of talent/potential:  facilities.  The 119 teams from Div 1-FBS may be broken into groups according to a perceived difference in facilities.  For example: U of M, Texas, USC, LSU, the University of Ohio State, Oklahoma, Florida State and Georgia all have Mount Olympus-level facilities.  Are they all exactly identical?  Of course not.  But they are similar enough that I feel confident that if I were to lengthen this list to the top 20-24 programs in terms of facilities, and then select 3+ of them to analyze, I would be able to say that the results from those analyses were representative of the total sub-group.  The remaining 99 teams could probably be divided into three more sub-groups… those with exceptional, strong or simply functional facilities.  Of course, the teams at the gray areas are arbitrary (i.e. is there really a difference between #46 and #52 even though they may fall into different sub-groups?)  For my purposes, I split the teams with high coaching-stability into groups that I felt were very similar to each other in terms of facilities…

Mount Olympus:  Florida St, Georgia, Oklahoma, (Oregon,) tUOS, Penn St, Texas, and USC

Exceptional:  Cal, Iowa, Va Tech

Strong:  Boise, TCU, Utah

Functional:  None evaluated.  Doesn’t actually matter, because these schools don’t produce draftees on a regular enough basis to power a study without randomly analyzing 20-30 teams; at which point it would become impossible to suggest all the athletes were in an environment approaching identity.

Remember the mentioning of players influencing players?  Well, that bears out that the supposed strength of recruiting must be considered; and I gave heaviest consideration to the two extremes (5- and 2-stars.)  As we all know, 5-stars are actually a dependable source of high-performers, and before the data came in I had to assume that 2-stars would underperform in comparison to 3- and 4-stars.   With that in mind, we end up with 3 tiers of BCS schools to pair with the BCS crashers:

From the “We collect 5-stars like they’re Gold Teeth” category:  (sorry, all I can imagine is Pete Carrol smiling with a mouth full of bling…)

Florida St, Oklahoma, Texas and USC:  This group signed 40 five-star athletes over four years.  That’s an average of 2.5 top-flight athletes per school… per year!  They also had too few of 2-stars to count.

From the “Hey, we collect 5-stars too” category:

Georgia, Ohio St, and Penn St:  This group could have been highly consistent in terms of recruits, except Joe Pa gives recruiting analysts the big middle finger…  Each school recruited exactly 4 five-stars apiece… for an average of 1 top-flight athlete per year.  Then Joe Pa flipped his $h%t and decided to skip over the 4-stars in favor of an army of 3-stars; and swiftly failed miserably at turning them into NFLers.  Joe Pa was certainly an outlier among my sample of 14 schools… probably correlating to either his status of the inventor of college football or his deteriorating sanity.  God bless him.  But, 2-stars were still far and few between in this group.  (Georgia had 5, tUOS had 6, and Joe Pa took 13… Joe Pa is effectively a recruiting ‘tweener.  His thirteen 2-stars borders on having enough to evaluate; but considering the next group of schools averaged over 30 two-stars each, his collection of one 5-star each year made his pool closer to those of Georgia and tUOS.)

From the “We’d take a 5-star, but normally we have to give their spot to 2-stars” category:

Cal, Iowa, (Oregon) and Va Tech:  This group signed only 9 five-stars total… for an average of just over ½ of a five-star per year for each school.  But, what they lacked in prodigies, they made up for in presumed projects… 154 x 3-stars and 123 x 2-stars.

And finally, the “We’ll see your clutch of 5-stars, raise you none, and then promptly kick you’re a$$ with our army of 2-stars” category.

Our beloved BCS crashers… the destroyers of logic.  Couldn’t they just play along with the rules of our dominance?  These guys, as you have seen, signed less 4-stars than Cal, Iowa, Oregon and Va Tech signed 5-stars.  Nearly their entire squads were made up of 2- and 3-star prospects; with two-stars making up more than 75% of the scholarships.

Why is Oregon in parentheses?  Because they are the only one for whom a decision must be made… by facilities they are elite.  By recruiting composition they fit squarely with Iowa, Cal and Va Tech.  In terms of facilities, I cannot give a quantified answer as to the difference between their facilities and Cal’s or Iowa’s or Va Tech’s.  When faced with a decision for which I have numbers (recruiting composition) vs. the inherent vagueness of determining placement on a facilities list, I have to go with the numbers.  Therefore, Oregon was placed with Cal, Iowa and Va Tech.  Also, you can see that the teams with facilities presumably worthy of Mount Olympus are split into two categories based on 5-star recruiting efficacy.

So, the list of groupings:

#1.  Florida St, Oklahoma, Texas and USC

#2.  Georgia, tUOS and Penn St

#3.  Cal, Iowa, Oregon and Va Tech

#4.  Boise, TCU and Utah

At this point the first question is:  are these groupings homogenous within themselves?  Could I move Cal to any other group and feel like it is a better fit with a balanced consideration of facilities, recruiting, media exposure, etc.?  That process is repeated for each school.  The only school that stands out to me is Florida St; but that is because they have underperformed so badly on the field as of late.  As far as recruiting through 2002-4 they are definitely on par with the top group, facilities match, and so does media exposure... competition?  Well, they don’t really fit any better with Georgia or the Big Tens in that regard.

The second question is:  whom do these groups represent?  Each of these groups are probably representative of only 5-20 teams each.

Group #1 – These schools absorb such a disproportionate amount of 5-star talent that they can only really represent themselves… maybe Florida and Alabama are represented by this list?

Group #2 – These schools probably represent what we would expect to find at the top-tier of the Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC (not including the mega-recruiters from the Big 12 and SEC.)  Perhaps with a renewed parity in the Pac-10, this group would represent the top-tier of the Pac-10 as well (perhaps USC going forward will be better represented by this group… all depends on whether or not they keep up the 5-star recruiting.)  As it stood for the last decade, the top-tier of the PAC-10 pretty much consisted of USC, with an immediate drop-off to a middle tier.

Group #3 – These schools probably represent the top-tiers of the ACC and Big East, and mid-tiers of the Big 10, Big 12,Pac 10 and SEC.

Group #4 – Real tough to say.  On the field these three have proven themselves to be able to take on the top tier of the SEC and Big 12.  Likewise, the #2s and 3s from their conferences have proven conquerors of the mid-tier of the Pac-10 in recent years.  But in terms of facilities and recruiting composition, I think they are more representative of the mid-tier of the ACC and Big East, and lower tiers of the Big 10, Big 12, Pac-10 and SEC.  Perhaps we should just take the data of their players to be an isolated analysis.

For me, I only really care about the University of Michigan… and in that regard, I would consider it most homogenous with the Georgia, tUOS and Penn St grouping.  So, I would expect our 2-stars, 3-stars and 4-stars to behave in a similar fashion. 

Unfortunately, as stated before, it is not feasible to analyze the bottom tier of NCAA football due to a low rate of NFL draftees.

Drum-roll for the Data…  (Boise, TCU and Utah not included today, but I’ll repost their aggregated results under the results section.  Their individual data can be found in yesterday’s post re: 2- vs. 3-stars.)  Data in alphabetical order.  Percentages given with decimals for teams which will be discussed in isolation.

 

Cal

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


21

36

27





4-Draft

5



3-Draft


4


2-Draft



3

%

24%

11%

11%

 

Flor. St

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3


11

47

23

5-Draft

5



4-Draft


9


3-Draft



2





%

45%

19%

9%

 

Georgia

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


4

46

35

5

5-Draft

1




4-Draft


7



3-Draft



6






1

%

25.00%

15.22%

17.14%

20.00%

 

Iowa

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


13

37

34





4-Draft

0



3-Draft


3


2-Draft



7

%

0%

8%

21%

 

Ohio St

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


4

39

31

6

5-Draft

2




4-Draft


13



3-Draft



8






1

%

50.00%

33.33%

25.81%

16.67%

 

 

Oklahoma

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3


8

51

27

5-Draft

2



4-Draft


14


3-Draft



2





%

25%

27%

7%

 

Oregon

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


16

42

34





4-Draft

1



3-Draft


4


2-Draft



4

%

6%

10%

12%

 

Penn St

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


4

19

39

13

5-Draft

3




4-Draft


5



3-Draft



3






1

%

75.00%

26.32%

7.69%

7.69%

 

Texas

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3


8

43

24

5-Draft

5



4-Draft


11


3-Draft



2





%

63%

26%

8%

 

USC

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3


13

40

23

5-Draft

6



4-Draft


20


3-Draft



4





%

46.15%

50.00%

17.39%

 

 

Va Tech

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


17

39

28





4-Draft

3



3-Draft


9


2-Draft



1

%

18%

23%

4%

 

 

Aggregated Results:

BCS Crashers


Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


8

50

194

4-Draft

2



3-Draft


4


2-Draft



18

Tot %

25.00%

8.00%

9.28%

 

Cal, Iowa, Oregon and Va Tech


Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


9

67

154

123

5-Draft

4




4-Draft


9



3-Draft



20


2-Draft




15

Tot %

44.44%

13.43%

12.99%

12.20%

 

Georgia, tUOS and Penn St


Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


12

104

105

24

5 Draft

6




4 Draft


25



3 Draft



17


2 Draft




3

Tot %

50.00%

24.04%

16.19%

12.50%

 

Florida St, Oklahoma, Texas and USC


Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3


40

191

97

5 Draft

18



4 Draft


55


3 Draft



10

Tot %

45.00%

28.80%

10.31%

 

Discussion

What I take from the data and results…

1.       Five stars can go to any BCS school consistently in the top 50 without fear of missing out on the NFL due to choosing the wrong university.  Although only one of the sub-groups examined had enough 5-stars to be able to draw a reliable probability, the conglomerate 45% draft rate seen at Florida St., Oklahoma, Texas and USC is at least theoretically corroborated by the similar rates seen within the two other groupings of BCS schools (44.4% and 50.0%.)  Therefore, if the recruiting gurus at Rivals believe an athlete to be worthy of five-stars, then that athlete has approximately a 45% chance of eventually being drafted as long as he goes to schools on at least the same level of Cal, Iowa, Oregon, and Va Tech (the “lowest” level I could measure.)  This data cannot be used to assign a probability to teams below this level due to a lack of historical data re: 5-stars at these schools.

2.       On teams with no, or few, 5-stars athletes… there is no difference between the draft rates of 2-, 3- or 4-star athletes in terms of likelihood of developing into NFL-caliber players.  We see this for 2- and 3-stars among BCS crashers (their 4-stars can’t be assessed due to insufficient sample size.)  We also see this for 2-, 3- and 4-stars at Cal, Iowa, Oregon and Va Tech.  Such athletes have a 12.2%, 13.0% and 13.4% chance of being drafted, respectively.

3.       2-star players at BCS schools have just over a 12% chance of eventually being drafted... Important for consideration of walk-ons.  The schools on the level with Cal and Iowa turned in the only sample size of 2-stars large enough to really let normalization play out.  At these schools, the 2-stars were drafted at a rate of 12.20%.  It is interesting to note that at the big-timers (Georgia, tUOS and Penn St) the rate was the same for their smaller sample (12.5% of 24 players.)  The potential of 2-stars at this tier of schools may be even more impressive considering that the 2-star sample in this group was dominated by Joe Pa’s group of 13.  Look at Joe Pa’s track record with 2- and 3-star athletes.  He is getting less out of this group than the coaches at all the other schools measured (exceptions: 3-stars at Oklahoma and 2-stars at Va Tech.)  His rates (7.69% and 7.69%) are even lower than the conglomerate rates of the drafting of 2-stars and 3-stars from the BCS-busters, who have a much lower draft-rate than BCS schools.  This, in addition to his having coached at one school for more than 60 years, is what makes Joe Pa an outlier.  Georgia and Ohio State’s tiny sample sizes of 2-stars means we can only assign hope that 2-stars at a school like Michigan has a 16-20% chance of being drafted.  This brings a renewed sense of importance to the emphasis on a walk-on program… if we could bring in ten 2-star walk-ons each year, there should be 1-2 NFL athletes among them given a span of 12-20% probability.

4.       Five stars behave as a catalyst to their teammates’ development.  As the concentration of 5-stars among a team’s composition is increased, the team’s draft rates are improved for 3- and 4-stars.  The data groupings express a consistent progression of average five-star signings each year: 0, 0.5, 1 or 2.5 per team in the grouping.  Recruiting between 0 and 0.5 five-star athletes each year seems to have no effect on the lower-rated players (2- and 3-stars behaved the same in the environment represented by Boise, TCU and Utah; and 2-, 3- and 4-stars behaved the same in the environment represented by Cal, Iowa, Oregon and Va Tech.)  The lack of effect seen after  recruiting 0.5 of a five-star each year suggests there is a threshold that must be reached before a catalytic effect.  This threshold lies somewhere between 0.5 and 1, given the large bump 4-stars see in their draft rate on the campuses which acquire at least one 5-star per year (bump from 13% to 24%.)  Going from 1 to 2.5 five-stars per year equates to a smaller bump for the 4-stars:  from 24% up to 29%... probably something to do with the “catalysts” beginning to take up too many spots on the starting roster, which diminishes playing time for everyone else even as their play is further improved. 

4-stars are most prone to elevating their play.  This either means there is actually a difference between 4- and 3-stars’ abilities; or it is indicative of coaches following a biased hierarchy in which it is much more difficult for a 3-star to get a whiff of the field.  I don’t know, I have never been on a football team, but my experiences as a collegiate swimmer suggest that there are some interesting psychologies at work as far as how coaches stratify their athletes.

5.       Georgia might be evidence of one style of coaching…  although Georgia is not a sufficiently large population in and of itself to be statistically relevant, it is interesting to note that there is no apparent correlation between stars and NFL-drafting on Mark Richt’s team.  5-stars were drafted at a 25% rate, with 2-stars (!) coming in at the next highest rate of 20%.  (4-stars 15.2% and 3-stars 17.1%.)  So, after 5-stars (who had an unusually low success rate) the correlation between stars and drafting was the exact opposite of what we would expect.  This might be indicative of a coach who gives all comers equal opportunity at promotion and demotion… sound familiar?

6.       As NFL draft-rates for 5-stars increase, the draft-rates for 2-stars plummets.  An interesting case study is looking at Georgia, tUOS and Penn St side by side.  It cannot be taken with more than a grain of salt, because these teams have neither enough 5-stars nor 2-stars to be statistically relevant.  But, for the love of patterns I’m going to charge ahead anyway and present that data here:

 

Georgia

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


4

46

35

5

5-Draft

1




4-Draft


7



3-Draft



6






1

%

25.00%

15.22%

17.14%

20.00%

 

 

Ohio St

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


4

39

31

6

5-Draft

2




4-Draft


13



3-Draft



8






1

%

50.00%

33.33%

25.81%

16.67%

 

 

Penn St

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3

Tot 2


4

19

39

13

5-Draft

3




4-Draft


5



3-Draft



3






1

%

75.00%

26.32%

7.69%

7.69%

 

Perhaps this is further evidence of a hierarchy, in which programs with multiple starting positions filled by 5-stars are inherently going to have fewer opportunities for a significant proportion of their 2-stars to try-out in a real-game situation.

7.       USC Case Study.  As I have already mentioned, USC had enough recruits AND draftees to be able to compare recruits within the ranks of 3-, 4- and 5-stars.  This is highly valuable, because it is the only piece of data which is both statistically relevant AND from a completely homogenous setting.  This is where we find out if there is a true difference in the odds of recruits going pro based on their star ratings…

USC

Tot 5

Tot 4

Tot 3


13

40

23

5-Draft

6



4-Draft


20


3-Draft



4





%

46.15%

50.00%

17.39%

 

Ummm… so yeah.  4-stars and 5-stars are equivalent.  Dag-nab…  this analysis was supposed to settle the debate.  I can only explain this by the fact that apparently there is a second critical threshold of obtaining 5-star recruits (USC grabbed 3.2 per year between 2002-5) beyond which their presence produces a sense of normalcy to which everyone else on the team believes they are part of.  How scary is it facing off against 1 Brandon Graham in practice?  Pretty damn scary… But how scary is it if there were 10 Brandon Grahams?  The only way to deal with the absolute terror would be for players to reset to a new sense of normal and elevate their expectations to what they perceive as a new normal.

 

In conclusion….

Hooray for stepping up emphasis on the walk-on program!  The potential of developing a couple of NFL-caliber athletes each year would be a huge gain from something which is basically scholarship neutral.

And, from now on I will be highly interested in our pursuit of 5-stars.  It is quite evident that their value extends well beyond individual preparation for the NFL; their presence adds to the quality of practice and motivation for everyone around them, and can apparently give people a new sense of normalcy where they go all Neo on the recruiting services and leave the reality of the Matrix.

---This completes a retrospective analysis of 1159 athletes and their ultimate rate of success in entering the draft.

**Edit** - I did not include the information I shared yesterday regarding Kickers/Punters.  They were not included in either the count of recruits or draftees.  Thank you "funkywolve" for pointing that out.

Comments

mejunglechop

February 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 AM ^

This is just great. Best diary since Misopogon's attrition series. Hopefully Brian frontpages this, or at least comments on it.

El Jeffe

February 23rd, 2010 at 11:47 AM ^

Super cool as always. Because I'm lazy, I'm wondering about your thoughts on the causal mechanism linking 5-stars to better draft outcomes for 4-stars. As I see, it there could be at leat four non-mutually exclusive possibilities. 1. You get better: 5-stars bring up the level of play of 4-stars (this seems to be your thought). 2. Multitude of sins: It's easier to be successful as a 4-star when you have a couple of 5-stars around you, even if you aren't actually any better than you would have been without the 5-stars around. E.g. (and by analogy), the Lions O-line looks like world-beaters blocking for Barry; or, Emmitt Smith looks like a world-beater running behind the Dallas O-line. For a counter-example, ask Shawn Marion how his post-Steve Nash career has turned out... 3. Better teams: 5-stars make teams better, leading to more exposure for those teams' four-stars. 4. Reflected glory: Similar to (2) and (3) above. If you play with some 5-stars, you get "buzz" and are more likely to be drafted. Malcolm Gladwell likes this theory. Thoughts?

NOLA Blue

February 23rd, 2010 at 12:26 PM ^

I appreciate your thoughts... I had considered the "multitude of sins" posit, and find it highly likely to be a contributor. I emphasized players getting better because it is apparent that 2-4 star athletes are somewhat equal in the absence of 5-star influence. Posits 2-4 should be distributed equally among 2-4 stars if the 5-stars were simply elevating the team's performance. Regarding #2: A 5-star No Flyzone safety should make the entire secondary look better regardless of the secondary's star composition. Thus, 3-stars and 4-stars both benefit. Regarding #3: An O-line having an extremely dominant set of stats thanks to some guy named Jake Long blazing through all comers would bring analysts' attention to each component of the O-line, and eventually credit would be distributed as due... if 4-stars and 3-stars are assumed to be equal performers, then this advantage would also be spread without regard to stars. #4: see blend of #2 and 3. :^) But, what we see is a clear separation between 4-stars and 3-stars as the number of 5-stars is increased. Granted, in the "multitude of sins" posit; the effect would require that 4-stars and 3-stars actually both be on the field to benefit. If the starting spots are filled from a presumed hierarchy instead of an analysis of the best player available at that moment, such an effect might begin to bias towards benefiting 4-stars. Thus, I concur that this is very likely a contributing factor. In the case of player development, we have to assess whether 4-stars are just physically more capable of improvement, or if there is a psychological component to feeling like they are closer to closing the gap between themselves and 5-star teammates (do 2-stars give up and just plan to come in and enjoy the ride?) I also find these to be likely scenarios. In terms of Michigan, I think it is safe to say that 1) our 2-stars are not becoming Michigan Men to simply enjoy the ride and 2) that RR's style of coaching will mean that all players will have an opportunity to benefit from any added exposure 5-stars bring through success.

funkywolve

February 23rd, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^

the only thing I would say is that the coaching stability relates only to the head coach. I'm guessing at all these programs there was some turnover among the position coaches as well as at the offensive and defensive coordinator positions. It would be interesting to know a breakdown of the positions that the players played who were drafted. It wouldn't surprise me that at the larger schools a lot of the 2 and 3 star players getting drafted were kickers and/or punters, not necessarily offensive and defensive players.

NOLA Blue

February 23rd, 2010 at 12:30 PM ^

Kickers/punters were not included in either the recruiting numbers or the draft numbers... I agree with the fact that maintaining the same head-coach does not mean a perfect system of stability; that is why I stated such when discussing the decision to only include schools with no change at head-coach: "Thus, all players assessed at the school received strongly similar tutelage (not accounting for position-coach changes.)"

NOLA Blue

February 24th, 2010 at 4:45 PM ^

...for the nice compliments. While I am glad that you have found this post useful, the value of the MGoBlog community's input on the posts leading to this one cannot be overlooked. I am continually impressed by the civility and constructiveness of MGoBlog's readership. Keep on keepin' on!

colin

February 25th, 2010 at 2:56 PM ^

it looks like rivals finds the teams that have won the most of late and finds out who that coach is recruiting and which players he thinks are better than others. cross list a number of coaches and you start to come up with relevant national rankings. but it's pretty obvious that they have a limited network that isn't actually available to evaluate the entirety of relevant players other than through inference. if i'm right, it suggests that we can probably infer what the Rivals rankings will look like based on offers and past team winning percentage. for instance, teams that come out of nowhere and start winning a lot of games like Boise and TCU will eventually see their recruits rated better even if they aren't outcompeting national powers for recruits. this would also mean that Rivals/Scout are merely reporting services and not doing any value added scouting of their own.

mat1397

February 25th, 2010 at 3:47 PM ^

I suggested (i.e., it assumes Rival's evaluations are not independent) but I can certainly see offer lists influencing rankings being a factor and having something of a similar effect on the data. Although it doesn't totally explain why you see the fall off in the star-rankings predictive power at the highest and lowest levels.

colin

February 25th, 2010 at 4:50 PM ^

independent evaluations. they just don't add any value. it's way more important that he knows what the million dollar coach thinks. and i assume these guys are not so full of themselves to think they know more than the coaches. in fact, i'm pretty sure they fawn over/are in awe of the coaches. so we should expect to see a bias based on the degree of access. the farther from the network, the farther from being highly rated. the question left is predictive power at the highest levels. there are a lot of various factors there and since they are successful in the extreme, it becomes difficult to pick out what exactly they're good at that makes the difference. i also wonder if the best coaches are the most sophisticated when it comes to dealing with the recruiting services. so they may be distorting their signal to some degree as well.

mat1397

February 25th, 2010 at 3:06 PM ^

Isn't this likely a function of the Rivals rankings being an imperfect measure of a recruit's value in a marketplace with unequal buying power? Stated less obtusely, everyone's guess of who the best players are is different and imperfect, although there is still a good deal of overlap in opinion (compare Rivals rankings to other recruiting services, e.g.). If you give someone qualified to evalute recruits the pick of the litter, the guys they select as the best may not always be the same, but whomever is selected is still highly likely to be a stud. A recruiting service has the pick of the litter in the sense that they can assign a 5-star ranking to whomever they choose. A school obviously does not have the power to sign whoever they choose, but a place like USC of late is the next closest thing. They have enjoyed so much recruiting power, they will generally limit their offers to those recruits they think very, very highly of (5-star caliber recruits according to their own evaluation). Thus, for a school like USC, you would not necessarily expect a recruit's Rivals ranking to strongly correlate with the USC coaching staff's internal evaluation of the recruit, since they are generally only going after the guys they really like. So it is not terribly surprising when their Rivals 4-star guys pan out at a similar frequency to their Rivals 5-star guys...if the USC coaching staff didn't think they were a stud, they probably would not have recruited them. As you move down the food chain, and look at schools that pull from both the elite and less elite ranks, the Rivals rankings start becoming a more likely predictor of the coaching staff's own evaluation of the player (if you accept the premise that the Rivals rankings are a rough proxy of a recruit's market value...i.e., the pool of 5-star players includes a higher concentration of good/more sought after recruits, and so on down the scale). That recruit your coaches are really excited about is more likely to be a 4-star or 5-star guy than a 3-star (although not always). That guy your coaches had to settle for is more likely a 3-star than a 4-star. Consistently, with these teams (teams capable of pulling the occasional 5-star), you start seeing more of a correlation in the mid-tier ranks between star ranking and likelihood of success. However, once you approach the lower tier of schools (from a recruiting power perspective), you are dealing with teams that are, figuratively, picking through the left-over scraps from the more elite teams. Again, at that point, the predictive ability of the Rivals rankings begins to give way to the fact that a bunch of more powerful market participants doing their own evaluations chose to take a pass on your recruits. In other words, the better schools have already taken a close look through the Rivals 2-star bin and the Rivals 3-star bin and picked out the most worthy fruit from each. It should not surprise that what is left behind in each may not be significantly different from one another. Anyways, this to me seems a lot more likely an explanation for the phenomenon reflected in the data above than the idea that the presence of "5 star" guys on your team has some mysterious effect on the abilities of their lower ranked peers. Amazing post, by the way.

mat1397

February 25th, 2010 at 3:49 PM ^

although you still have to acknowledge the correlations in the data for those not quite USC-level schools. It is still important to recognize that a coaching staff's prioritizing of particular recruits will frequently correlate with the star-rankings. So when your team is persuing a 4-star player and a 3-star player at the same position and signs the 4-star player, that's probably good news (i.e., that's more likely the guy the coaches really wanted), but not necessarily.

NOLA Blue

February 27th, 2010 at 3:54 AM ^

I agree with both you and Colin... 1 - it is entirely plausible that some schools get their top picks among the 4-stars they recruit as well as their top picks among the 3-stars they recruit; and thus their 4-stars and 3-stars behave at a higher level than the average of their ranks. I could see these schools to also be the schools that receive a higher number of 5-stars, as that may be an overall measure of their recruiting draw. 2 - it is also plausible that the recruiting services rank recruits higher as they draw interest from specific schools who have had a lot of recent success... the more schools on that recruit's list who have had recent success, the higher they get ranked. However, the design of this study was to look at players vs. players on the same team... in other words, both of these systemic biases you are talking about should be expected to affect the players of the same teams in an equivalent manner. If USC is more likely to get the players it wants, then that means both the 3-stars and 4-stars they signed came to them in higher regard... therefore, while both levels of recruits might be expected to behave at a higher success rate than their counterparts at another school, their correlation to each others' success should remain equivalent. Unless we assume that USC only got the 4-stars it really wanted, but for some reason was forced to accept the 3-stars it signed... I find this unlikely. Also, I think a consideration of the 5-star mega-recruiters' data vs. the highly-successful 5-star recruiters' could hold some answers to this dilemma. If the teams who are more successful at recruiting 5-stars (by a factor of 2.5) are considered to be getting their "pick of the litter" among 4-stars and 3-stars, then comparing them to the next tier of teams should reveal a much higher level of success among the 4-star and 3-star data. However, what we see is a small bump in the 4-star data and a regression among their 3-stars. To me, this suggests an influence of psychology... be it the psychology of the coaches and who they give first-crack at the field, or the psychology of players who either believe in their own skills, or don't. Adding even more doubt to the argument: the behavior of 2-stars at the lower tier schools vs. the behavior of 3-stars at the top tier schools... Cal, Iowa, Oregon, and Va Tech are placing 2-stars into the draft at a rate of 12.2%. Georgia, tUOS and Penn St are placing 2-stars into the draft at a rate of 12.5%. If we deem Florida St, Oklahoma, Texas and USC to be the most successful recruiters based on their high numbers of 5-stars, and further posit that this means they are getting the best of the 4- and 3-stars; then why do their 3-stars only get drafted at a rate of 10.3%? Again, I like your posits. But, this data was not designed to answer either of those questions; and as we can see, if we were to begin to make inferences from the data, the results do not support either posit.