WTKA Roundtable 7/29/2021: I'm Not Dead!
Things discussed:
- HAIL TO THE VICTORS 2021 is HAPPENING: It’s going to end.
- Big XII: Did we forget to get into this on air? Oops. It was the entire pre-air discussion. Anyway, we think this is the perfect opportunity to get all the non-SEC schools together to pass everything that’s great for college athletics but not for the SEC.
- Why should I be excited about Michigan football this year? Seth goes off: Don’t you miss this? They can turn the game into Penn State 2014 but nothing can take away the link between fans and football players who put more effort into their play than any other sport. This is your team. Hassan Haskins is going to run some guys over for you.
- More football: How’s the defense going to function now?
- During break: They made the GLI two extra home games vs WMU/Tech but aren’t adding them to the season tickets.
- More football: QBs, and whether Michigan can run zone reads. Seth gives some of the insight about the offense from writing HTTV articles.
- NBA Draft: Franz 4th? If they think he can shoot and is an elite wing defender. 7th to Golden State seems likely. Livers is the best teammate out of the 200 three-and-D guys. Chaundee can get up a three and that’s valuable.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment two is available here. You can also watch the video here:
THE USUAL LINKS
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
- Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
They cannot take away the core of what’s great about college football. You get in that stadium, those players are playing harder than they ever will again, and they’re doing it for your school, and you’re right there with them. They hear you. You hear them. And there’s nothing else in any sport that’s like that.
I hope all is well with Brian and that he can get back to things when possible. Seth has really been great at filling the void, but not having Brian still feels as if something is missing.
He'll be back in the next few weeks. Just needed a break to deal with a personal matter that has nothing to do with the blog.
Thanks for the info, Seth. Good wishes to Brian.
Thanks Seth.
Thanks Ace
thanks, seth. been wondering.
I'm worried about this season.
I'm disappointed that Michigan has lost the elite dominance it's (occasionally) enjoyed.
I'm a fan who's eager to see Michigan play
Elite dominance of what?
Tacos
If Tacopants just had better hands he could have dominated the stat sheets.
Great job Seth. You can be my hype man any day. Let’s F—-ing go!!!
i've been feeling the ennui, not sure if i even want to watch anymore. but during the break, section from 30:30-31:15 was very cathartic, thank you
Wow! They answered my email on the air! I wrote that thing yesterday afternoon. Never expected them to reply this quick. I guess whining sometimes DOES pay off.
I'm the diehard Wolverine fan, Andy, in segment one writing in begging those guys to give me something to look forward to this season.
Craig Ross, man. He is just on another planet sometimes. His crap about how winning every game is boring and how it's more fun to pull for a team that never comes out ahead is just so sad. Then he goes on to talk about how he thinks that ticket sales is an indicator that it's more enjoyable to watch Michigan than Ohio State and Bama. Give us a fucking break, Craig.
I've seen good teams and bad teams. It's more fun to root for a good team. It took a decade but it seems like Funchess has finally got at least one convert in Craig Ross to the "wins and losses are just stats" church.
Not looking for a pep talk. College football is dead. Yes--in the context of a culture in which the cold cash nexus looms above all else--students deserved to be cut in on the deal. But commercialism and filthy lucre killed it, and will now spit on its grave.
Did Craig really suggest it's better to root for a losing team than a winning one? WTF!?!
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
I didn't take it as he was saying it is better, just that you find joy in rooting for the team - your team- your fellow students, regardless of the record. And he's right. Fans, especially students and alumni who stop supporting the team because of the record are shitty. The players are students afterall, and put a whole helluva lot more effort into a Saturday afternoon than the fans do. But you'd think it is the internet commentors who have gone through the two-a-days the way they bitch about how the season shapes up.
Age brings perspective and I'm old enough to root for a win, then go about my day after a loss, and be ready to go again the next week.
Fans, especially students and alumni who stop supporting the team because of the record are shitty.
I think it's human nature to become more interested in teams when they become more successful and lose interest in them when they are not. There's a reason why teams that are more successful are more likely to have larger stadiums and sell more tickets than those that are historically less successful. The Yankees are more successful than the Mets and have more fans. UM is more successful than MSU and have more fans. The Lakers are more successful than the Clippers and have more fans. The most successful teams regardless of sports tend to have the largest fan bases. And, you're more likely to see fan gear of winning teams than that of losing ones. Admissions spike at universities when they win. People want to be a part of success. If a historically successful program starts to decline, fan interest will surely diminish. This seems fairly logical.
I understand when Seth, Craig, and Ira all talk about how the real joy they feel for Michigan football isn't from winning games but from the time they spend with their friends in and around the program and that's all fine but that element is just not a reality for many, almost certainly most, fans. Those of us who live normal lives that don't revolve socially and financially around Michigan football on a daily basis just see a worse product on the TV each year.
Those of us who live normal lives that don't revolve socially and financially around Michigan football on a daily basis just see a worse product on the TV each year.
I get the sense UM football's struggles are part of why we are developing a bit of a bipartisan identity here. There is the inner group of UM fans on here that are either students, alumni, and/or who live in the area that tend to be more supportive and understanding and less vocal about their frustrations on average. While this is a smaller group when considering UM's football fanbase as a whole, it might actually be a larger percentage of our posting group members. Then, there is another group that isn't an alum or a student, that don't live in the AA area but are still UM football fans, who tend to be more vocal about their frustrations. Those fans are just watching games from afar on TV and are less likely to be overly supportive of a declining product. This is the larger UM fanbase as a whole, but probably the minority of posters here.
"Then, there is another group that isn't an alum or a student, that don't live in the AA area but are still UM football fans, who tend to be more vocal about their frustrations."
I sat amidst a bunch of those fans in 2010. Watching & listening to those assholes boo our own fucking players in the stadium was not an experience I'd care to repeat.
Watching & listening to those assholes boo our own fucking players in the stadium was not an experience I'd care to repeat.
Maybe they were booing Greg Robinson. I'm not a huge fan of booing the home team either and tend to think UM fans are too quick to do that in the stadium...more so than other places. But, thinking they are assholes because they are frustrated and the players are somehow "yours" as if you have more of a right to be a fan because you fall into the other category is really proving the point. Your comment makes it appear as though you feel you are better than them or have a more valid opinion. I think this is an example of the cultural challenge that exists uniquely at UM and why it's so hard to get everyone on the same page.
well Seth talked about it in that context...and he spoke well on it within that perspective
Maybe I missed it, but Craig was the one saying that "winning all the time is boring" and how he enjoys cheering for a team like the Guardians.
While you obviously will continue to cheer for your team, I think its a little dubious to suggest that people, or even Craig himself, would prefer to cheer for a middling team over a team that wins all the time.
a) Michigan football has never been in that position before
b) would people prefer Michigan basketball during the Amaker years or the Beillein/Howard years.
I am going to suggest that people prefer Michigan basketball now compared to what it was before.
I don't think any Michigan fans enjoyed the Amaker years more than Beilein/Howard years. I also don't think any Michigan fans enjoyed the Rodriguez/Hoke years more than the Carr years. I just think Craig Ross is full of shit and making a bad "rah rah, these are our boys" sort of argument just for the sake of defending his favorite team.
I just think Craig Ross is full of shit and making a bad "rah rah, these are our boys" sort of argument just for the sake of defending his favorite team.
I like Craig. He seems like a likable guy. But, on the podcast Craig says a lot of shit that doesn't make much sense to me. I think sometimes he just likes to hear himself talk. He's just saying shit for the sake of saying shit. If you asked him a year later if he still agreed with what he said he'd probably say "What did I say?" and not remember ever thinking that.
I guarantee you I really hated the Ellerbee and Rich Rod years as much as anyone. But I always showed up and hoped. I found interest in the games, regardless of outcomes.
But the losing years after Fisher was canned made me appreciate what JB did, and what Juwan is doing, even more.
Is UM BB better now, more fun now? Sure. But that doesn't mean a fan can't be interested in a less successful team and can't talk about and enjoy the potential of a brighter future.
I
Is UM BB better now, more fun now? Sure. But that doesn't mean a fan can't be interested in a less successful team and can't talk about and enjoy the potential of a brighter future.
What can happen versus what happens more often on average are two different things. Anyone can get in shape by eating right and exercising regularly, but most don't. If you do, you're in the minority, just like if you have just as much interest when the team is losing versus when it's winning you're also in the minority.
Craig was the one saying that "winning all the time is boring"
Thank you, LB.
Rooting for a team that is winning is fun.
But rooting for your team, even if bad, can have its upsides---particularly if they are competing. And there is hope and joy in the latter because things tend to turn around. And when it does for UM, and I think it will (even in my limited lifetime) how sweet will that be?
UM FB isn't looking up right now, but I will root for them and hope. UM Hockey and BB look pretty damned good. But I am no more invested in those teams.
But rooting for your team, even if bad, can have its upsides---particularly if they are competing. And there is hope and joy in the latter because things tend to turn around. And when it does for UM, and I think it will (even in my limited lifetime) how sweet will that be?
This is 100% true. This also does not in any way disprove my point. There is joy in turning things around. I'm sure OSU fans loved it in 2012 when they went undefeated after going .500 in 2011. They also loved what Tress did for them in the rivalry after going through the Cooper years. And, UM fans also loved it when Hoke went 11-2 in 2011 after having three middling to bad years in a row and went JH went 10-3 in 2015 after Hoke went 5-7 the year before. But, those have been small turnarounds for UM in a larger rather disappointing period. They have yet to get back to what most consider beating OSU half the time and the basement being 8 wins for the better part of two decades. That's a time period that would test even the most loyal fans.
thanks for taking the time to respond Craig.
I mean, I understand what you are getting at, in terms of finding enjoyment through just the watching and partaking in all the social elements that come with it... I think people have to; if it were ALL about winning, then no one would go to games for teams that are consistently not very good.
I think it was just the way you said it, that it was 'more enjoyable' and that 'winning all the time was boring'... save one season in my lifetime, that has never been the case for Michigan football...
I think people can get too wrapped up in sports and letting failure on the field become a personal affront to themselves...
I've been pretty critical of the team and the direction, but I will certainly cheer them on and hope for the best...but I think there's a lot more apathy about the team that's creeping in...ultimately, the machine that is the Michigan AD cannot afford to let that happen long term.
Reasonable commentary.
If UM continues the recent past it seems certain to demolish fan interest and revenues. I will retain my interest, despite any frustrations, but I assume I hold a minority attitude.
for sure - its a matter of degrees.
I don't think you are in the minority however; lots of people will continue to support the team and root for the program...if the ticket sales are accurate as you mentioned, that decline in fanaticism hasn't reached a point where people are actively not supporting the program.
but the cottage industries that are pulled along in the wake of the program's success, such as jersey sales, internet memberships, publications etc will probably start to see and feel that drag downwards...
Hope springs eternal however...so we'll see what happens.
Any chance on getting a link to the Ravens/Chiefs video regarding pre-snap motion Seth mentioned? Can't seem to find it with the google.
Thanks
https://mgoblog.com/content/neck-sharpies-ravens-5-1-5-defense
it was a neck sharpies he did back in feb.
I would think it is plausible that the OSU team hooker situation may very well be throwing off ticket sales in Columbus. Is that a family friendly environment and/or anything fans want to deal with?
Seth pulling a big Harry vibe this week. Hype man pre-season vibe. oh boy.
Love the pod and appreciate you helping me get through my commute. That being said, when it comes to basketball I think you guys may be looking through maze colored glasses a bit. Livers is a five-star athlete? I don't think so. I think the challenge livers will have is showing who he can guard in the NBA at 6'7 without elite lateral quickness. I do think he will stick around because he can shoot so well I just don't know that he'll get a lot of minutes unless he can prove he can defend. Then there's Brown, who I love and I think will dominate the G League for years to come. But the reality is that he is a power forward stuck in a shooting guard's body. And in the NBA I don't think a shooting guard who can't dribble or pass is going to last very long.
The first 20 minutes were too sad and pathetic to even get through. I've never had that problem before in either the best or worst of times. Craig specifically. I like him but, wow.
We're in the "beaten spouse lowering the bar to avoid leaving" stage of comparing skewed season ticket sales against Alabama and our main rival that we've beaten TWICE in the last 20 years.
"It's boring to win every game"
What?! What kind of loser BS mentality is that? Lmao, my goodness.
I've been using and viewing this blog pretty much since the start and I'm not the doom & gloom type. I hardly post and only in the last 5 years have I become black-pilled about UM Football. Yet, I've never said or heard anything as pathetic as the first 20-25 minutes of this episode. I literally couldn't finish it.
I'm still kinda stunned that it wasn't all a big, ironic or sarcastic joke.
I appreciate other views and understand I might be singular, but if UM had won 100% of its games in the last 50 years, how interesting would it be? Doesn't the chance of losing and even enduring some loss, make the games better? And if you win every game, all the time, isn't that boring?
Well, maybe I am wrong, but without loss, or the legitimate chance of loss, isn't it all pretty dull?
I also like differing opinions but your take on what was said is not what was said.
A much closer summary would be that he claimed that it's more interesting to be bad sometimes so you appreciate the good. That's if we're being kind and giving a ton of leeway.
In reality, he made no references to "having the chance to lose" and such. He directly compared Michigan to Alabama and said being a Bama fan would be boring because they're so good.
Bama sometimes loses. Fact. They haven't gone undefeated under Saban, nor in the last 50 years straight. They lose sometimes.
To then claim it's better to be the opposite is insanity. It's toxic fandom smoking pounds of copium to deal with the fact that you root for a broken entity. It's supporting Rome at the end of the empire and everyone in charge is acting like the empire hasn't fallen to pieces. Then on top of that claiming that it's best to be a fallen, sad, failed State because only then do you recognize the good times when you're powerful, lol.
No. Be good. Always. Try hard to be good literally all the time in a sport where outcomes are set in record and there is a clear winner and loser. Try to win all the time, lmfao.
Wow. If I said, anything to the end of "don't try to win" I am mortified. I will have to go back and listen. But I doubt that I said that. I doubt if I argued "don't try to be good."
What I attempted to say was I have rooted for bad teams and I have rooted for good teams, but I have always hung with those teams and there are upsides of rooting for bad teams; it can be OK, figuring out, thinking about how a bad team can get better; it is Ok suffering with a bad team and reveling in a good team.
But, I will go back. If I said "don't try to win" or "don't try to be good" well, your POV is warranted. Always try to be as good as you can be, in most contexts, is the most rational idea.
I don't think he realized he was talking to you, Craig.
I am all for optimism and bless you boys for trying. But. I am confused by the line of thought that says we should be optimistic about the offense because they spent so many downs behind the sticks and unable to do what they wanted last year.
If the offense was perpetually behind the sticks it was because they failed on early downs. Because the offense wasn't working. Not because of some outside force. If they had plays that would get yards on 2nd and 3rd down then they should have called those on 1st down instead of the plays that didn't work.
I was also confused by the QB discussion. If Michigan really lacks any QB that can run ZR or RPO then what are they doing? Isn't that what this offense is supposed to be doing?
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