WTKA Roundtable 11/3/2022: Roll Down the Window
Things discussed:
- The Tunnel Assault: Michigan State has a program-wide culture problem and it's not going to change. Their media ecosphere is out there right now playing down this assault, waving it away as just 4 then 8 players, both-sidesing it, even valorizing it. They're taking their cues from the program.
- If you're a Michigan State fan, and you think what happened in the tunnel was wrong—and yes they are out there even if they're not being heard because that's not how they interact—this is your offramp, because nobody in that locker room thinks it was, nobody in that administration cares about more than PRing this away, and what happened in that tunnel is what that football program is and has been for a long time. Short of fans saying otherwise, it isn't going to change.
- Craig says he's fine with telling the Big Ten to remove them from the every-year schedule because Michigan gets nothing out of it. There's too much money involved to do that though.
- MSU lady told Craig to "Lick my butthole."
- The game itself: Michigan needs to learn to throw downfield even against cover 2, even if running the ball against soft defenses like MSU's is a safe and efficient play, because there's recruiting to consider and red zone issues.
- Tucker is no Dantonio (see defense UFR). Michigan was very vanilla, didn't want to pressure so much as contain, State really didn't get anything except Keon Coleman and didn't have anywhere to go once M put a safety over that. OSU will.
- PSU/OSU and looking ahead to The Game: Michigan should be able to run on them, the best OSU can do is repeat last year's receiver performance unless M can't get pressure on Stroud. Might not have seen what M can do on that front the last 2 weeks.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
Segment 2 is here. You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
You can watch the video here:
MGoBlog Roundtable https://t.co/l2DVhdlHE9
— The Michigan Insider (@michiganinsider) November 3, 2022
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Did you get the tag? I want to be friends with her.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:33 AM ^
Craig is the man, that's all.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:42 AM ^
Was the lady hot? Ya Craig you dog.
Dark Blue gonna be jealous.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:51 AM ^
LOL. You never know what Craig is going to say. Fun to hear his stories and his takes.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:44 PM ^
While I very much enjoy the Mgoblog RoundtabIe, I agree about Craig. Some of my most enjoyable WTKA listening came when Craig had an hour to himself during the earlier days of Covid.
During the offseason when sports are slow and the Roundtable is not on the air, it would be nice if Craig had his own hour every week.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:38 PM ^
My money was always on Craig to have the first ass licking story. Love it.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
oh, my lord, i swear to god, i spit water out my nose on that punchline.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:26 PM ^
Brian: "Did you do it?"
Asking the questions that need to be asked.
November 3rd, 2022 at 2:25 PM ^
The double facepalm from Brian and Sam after "I began to really like that woman" is outstanding.
November 3rd, 2022 at 4:40 PM ^
Easy solution to the money issue, Craig. Replace MSU on the 3-6-6 permanent rivalry schedule with USC. Have Michigan's three permanent rivals as OSU, USC, and Minnesota. That is superior to OSU, MSU, and (random third team). TV will love it.
November 3rd, 2022 at 4:44 PM ^
A solid idea. I myself would prefer PSU.
November 4th, 2022 at 12:08 AM ^
The advantage of USC is that it enables us to better recruit southern California.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:42 AM ^
The Craig Ross MSU fan story, plus the reaction from the rest of guys, is some of the finest YouTube content I've consumed in awhile. What I want to know is why Craig didn't ask the woman whether she wanted to put her ass up to the window or if he should get in the car.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:42 AM ^
The MSU football culture MUST change. Unfortunately B1G Commish Kevin (my son plays for Mich State) Warren won't take any action against them. For starters, he should declare MSU ineligible for bowl game consideration this year and put them on probation for all of 2023 including bowl eligibility should they get into any kind of incident.
So far, crickets out of Chicago.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:48 AM ^
I think you are being influenced by fandom bias. If Iowa had a guy swing a helmet at a Nebraska guy, I am wondering if you would want that level of discipline. I am hopeful they are very aggressive with the players themselves as they are the perpetrators. Throw the book to close the door on copycat performances. Examples are sometimes essential. The program impact as you describe implies institutional control issues. that is hard to claim based solely on this event. Lots of cowardice by the adults in the room, sure. But I'm not on board for the reach you state.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:52 AM ^
HateSparty is the voice of reason.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:09 PM ^
So...username does not checkout?
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:22 PM ^
Not true because I am a former student athlete who knows the meaning of sportsmanship. If an Iowa player hits a Nebraska player with a helmet, I'd have the same level of outrage.
Institutional control issues at MSU Football-YOU BET! This goes well beyond this singular event. Ask Denard Robinson what some of the MSU players did to him underneath a pile and that was an on-field incident. There are dozens of other incidents that crossed the line in this rivalry. Mark Dantonio elevated this rivalry to another level.
My point is ALL of these type of incidents should be stopped and get back to some kind of civility and respect for the other team as an opponent. If unchecked, then we'll likely see or here about more of this happening in the future.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:55 PM ^
I agree with what you're saying and want to add to it. In the Iowa/Nebraska hypothetical, there's no additional context (or aggravating circumstance) of Iowa's coaches and administration creating and cultivating a culture of hatred and pettiness directed at Nebraska. If Iowa players attacked Nebraska, it'd be relatively "out of the blue."
The MSU assault is different. The pattern of their behavior over the years has been a pattern of escalation, and you don't have to squint to see Saturday's assault as a continuation of that pattern. The fact that no "adult" as MSU took an opportunity to de-escalate something had become toxic a decade ago is an indictment of that institution at a higher level.
November 3rd, 2022 at 9:13 PM ^
Agree 100%. The bigger problem here for the Big Ten is this incident is highly likely to lead to violence spreading into the stands between the two teams at future football and basketball games. The temperature needs to be dialed down. And this won't happen unless the clueless "leadership" at MSU actually wants to change.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:49 AM ^
John Bacon made a good point in an earlier episode with Sam that Kevin should recuse himself from conversations regarding UM vs MSU.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:44 AM ^
I am torn by the "Tucker is no Dantonio". Part of me is happy because, well, results. But part of me is bummed if it means that Tucker's stupid stubbornness does not play into a relentless pursuit of mediocre talent acquisition and coaching talent. Cybil moment.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:50 AM ^
Well, tradeoff is Dantonio seems to be a good coach and Tucker "I am a DBs coach" is a self-proclaimed horse shit coach.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
It's a big of a problem when you virtue signal by telling everyone you are a horseshit coach
And then proceed to horseshit coach even more
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:00 PM ^
Dantonio also never would have become full fledge Dantonio with a Michigan team like this going 20-2 in last 22…he did great things for MSU but it aligned with rich rod/hoke.
November 3rd, 2022 at 11:57 AM ^
I appreciate a lot of this, but I don't think it's fair to say that no one at Michigan circled the wagons over Robert Anderson. A lot of people are still dragging their feet over Robert Anderson and the blast radius. Michigan, same as Michigan State and same as many (most?) other powerful institutions, can and does have problems with covering up sexual assault. I guess you could argue that once it reached a certain point, Michigan handled it marginally better than MSU (as in, they didn't hire John Engler), but the only way you can say Michigan did anything good is by making the standard an incredibly low bar.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:14 PM ^
I think we did things infinitely better than MSU. With that, I wish they would remove the Bo statue and rename the football building.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:37 PM ^
first percentile is infinitely better than zeroth percentile; i still don't think "how this school handled sexual assault" is really a place to emphasize how much better Michigan is, as an institution. Michigan also didn't protect people it had promised to protect. if how MSU handled sexual assault is evidence of how much the institution is rotting from the inside-out, then the exact same can be said about Michigan.
In addition to everything else, it comes off as trying to score rivalry points (which I know is not Brian's intention - this site has been very critical of the university for these exact issues), which is a bad look.
you're right about the statue and building, though, definitely.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:07 PM ^
I don't think "marginally" covers the difference between how Michigan handled Anderson vs MSU with Nassar. It was VERY different from a school perspective. However I was uncomfortable with the assertion it was "nobody" because we had Harbaugh, Brandstatter, et al. inside the program making statements to support Bo without acknowledging his failure.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:14 PM ^
I think that's fair - Michigan didn't drag their feet to protect Schlissel like MSU did with Simon, and in fact pretty clearly submarined him to get him tf outta there. I *do* think there's evidence that Michigan had a serious problem covering up sexual harassment or assault throughout the university under Schlissel, and I think it's probably something that was there before Schlissel.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:16 PM ^
Yes, Michigan was different, but the situation was also different because Bo is dead. Even then, like you said about Harbaugh et al, some fans still minimize Bo's shortcomings in this matter, which I think gets to the heart of the problem. You can't expect change when so many fans just don't care about the problem.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:23 PM ^
Take it down, rename the building, who has it better than us. Leave it up, keep the name, there are people who suffered. We need to walk away from Omelas.
To do better is to be a leader, to do the right thing is best. Michigan aspires to both.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:04 PM ^
Brian's points are good and all but you just can't get beat THAT badly. Some wins against the Pac12 don't make up for that. And if we don't beat OSU I don't want to be in the playoff anyway, but Michigan has shown the whole season they're a better team than Oregon.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:22 PM ^
I think it's somewhat uncharted waters. Have there been one-loss P5 conference champs who had huge blowout losses? OSU and PSU both had seasons in 2016 and 2017 where they won the conference despite being blown out, but they both had an additional loss.
It'd be a dilemma for the committee if it came down to a 1 loss Oregon and a 1 loss M, if, say, M blows Illinois out and then loses to OSU in an incredibly close game. The main problem for M's case would be a lack of a win over a highly ranked team and it would provide an opportunity for the committee to make a point. On the other hand, the committee's long described its mission as choosing the "four best" teams. I really don't know what would happen. It might come down to whether there were already 2 SEC teams that were locks (this scenario is kind of premised on Clemson and TCU somehow eliminating themselves over the next month) and the committee wanting to avoid the 2 Big Ten/2 SEC scenario (with both teams from those conferences having already played each other).
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:38 PM ^
Mmm I would say the main problem would be that 1-loss Oregon (or USC) would have a conference championship, and UM would not. Conf champ is a stated selection criteria. Put that together with a weak SOS, and I can't see any way that UM is selected at 11-1.
I don't think favoring UM for ratings or avoiding 2 SEC/2 B1G are actually on anyone's mind. Seeding-wise, yes, but not selection.
November 3rd, 2022 at 4:36 PM ^
OSU in 2014 lost by 14 at home to a 6-6 (at the time of selection) Virginia Tech team in the second game of the season, ran the table and went to the playoff. I know that's not losing by 46, but the quality of the teams, and the fact that it was the first game of the season in a virtual road game makes those comparable IMO.
I think Brian is right, but I also think it depends on who shakes out of the SEC. I don't think the committee will want a UGA/UO rematch in the semis, so they'd have to justify the spots, and it might be hard to put UO at 3.
I think this is moot though, because Oregon still has to play vs. Washington, vs. #14 Utah, @ #23 Oregon St, and likely against one of the LA schools in the championship game. The likelihood of them getting out of that 4 game stretch unscathed is very low.
BUT people are overlooking the PAC 12 because they haven't been in the playoff hunt in a while. That's because they haven't produced a 1-loss or less champion in a long time. The last two (Washington 2016 and Oregon 2014) both got in. There are still three one-loss PAC 12 teams and they're all threats for the playoff.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:37 PM ^
Michigan is winning and that is good. And. If somehow Michigan has found a way to win at football without excellent WR that's fine. The assumption is that this WR room right now is very good. But, it is just common sense that if they don't use the WR then it will be almost impossible to continue recruiting great WR regardless of the winning.
The coaches have to know this. Yet, in his media availability yesterday, when Weiss was asked if they wanted to involve the WR more, he got a little defensive and noted how good the offense was doing and how efficient it is. Which was a little concerning. Although, I assume he just didn't want to admit any deficiencies rather than truly believing they don't need to use the WR for recruiting purposes.
It would be really nice if at some point in the Rutgers game they stopped leaning so much on Corum and spread the love around to the WR. A team that has aspirations of beating OSU and competing in the playoff should be able to do that rather than firing their one gun over and over until the clock reads 0:00 against Rutgers.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
It was interesting to hear Sam basically say, "if they don't start to throw to the WRs, they are going to lose the ones they have and won't be able to recruit the position well."
Given the glimpses we saw from Anthony last year and him being a complete non-factor this year (6 catches in 8 games) I would be shocked if he sticks around for next year unless something changes.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:27 PM ^
Word. (To both of the above comments.)
November 3rd, 2022 at 2:30 PM ^
Ronnie Bell gets plenty of targets. Bell and Johnson will be gone next year. Not sure a guy like Anthony, who seems very close with JJ and Edwards, walks away from a championship caliber, home-state, team when he is assured to start next season. I can see some recruits being turned off by the lack of throws but there are guys who can, and will, come in and get the job done.
November 3rd, 2022 at 3:03 PM ^
I hope you are right, but that didn't sound like Sam giving a guess or opinion, it sounded like him intentionally saying something that he has heard first hand. Again, I hope you are right.
November 4th, 2022 at 8:00 AM ^
After hearing Sam say that same thing twice in the past several weeks, I totally agree with you, and I believe it is specifically about Andrel Anthony. My guess is that he's hearing something but doesn't want to come out and say it so is making these hints.
I'm not sure that Brian and Seth are quite hearing them. Not that it matters--I hope that the COACHES are worried. I think that Andrel could be All-B1G but that he's a risk to transfer out bc he's being totally ignored. He doesn't drop or fumble---give him CJ's targets; throw him fades!
November 4th, 2022 at 9:09 AM ^
Andrel Anthony has had a grand total of two games in his career with multiple offensive touches: vs Michigan State in 2021 (6 catch for 155) and vs Indiana in 2022 (2 catch for 32). You have to wonder if we're preemptively talking him up just because he wrecked a bad MSU secondary last year. I think he will be a good player, but let's not pretend guys like Wilson, CJ, and Bell haven't had multiple standout games in their career unlike him
November 3rd, 2022 at 9:44 PM ^
If you’re a top QB or WR, given the current look of the offense, why would you come to Michigan? Maybe there was a thought that Michigan wasn’t doing much with the passing game because they didn’t have the QB for it, but that excuse no longer applies. Even with 5 Star McCarthy, they’re still playing the safety first, short pass/check down game. There’s no way that’s going to be appealing to top recruits going forward. I hope it changes. The next two weeks would be a great time to open things up a bit.
November 3rd, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
I would love for the AD to opportunistically take advantage of this situation and try to get MSU off the annual schedule. The arrangement is lopsided in who it benefits, all tilted toward MSU. It's not as extreme as kicking them out of the conference, but they need to play us more than we need to play them. We have the leverage to get out of this.
With the B1G going to 16 teams, the schedule is going to change, and Michigan is going to have OSU annually, obviously. There is no need for another protected rivalry, but if the schedule rotation demands it, make it Minnesota, USC, or Northwestern. Anyone but Michigan State.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:01 PM ^
this is an extremely silly notion.
November 3rd, 2022 at 2:55 PM ^
Take Michigan off their schedule for a few years and what is the identity of their season?
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^
Agree with the principle of “throw vs cover 2” even if it is tough and more risky than running the ball every time.
In fact, I believe JH’s acceptance of FG (and Moody’s greatness) is a fundamental problem with the redzone offense. When the playcallers, JJ and the other players know that a FG is a good & assured outcome, that starts to affect the mindset of the offense. If JH told Weiss & Moore that it’s “TD or bust”, the approach would change. It might be painful and even make a game like MSU a nail biter, but it would create a better incentive & reward system for the offense to raise their redzone performance.
November 3rd, 2022 at 3:07 PM ^
Obviously the red zone hasn't cost UM yet, but I think the OSU game from last year is the perfect example of why getting TDs matters. That game finished with 6 Michigan scores to OSU's 5. But it was a 15 point game because UM scored 6 touchdowns while OSU had 2 FGs and 3 TDs.
November 3rd, 2022 at 7:58 PM ^
Agree. Repping the types of plays and the mindset to deliver only TDs in game situations are critical for late season effectiveness. A strength over played is a weakness - and it’s hard to believe 3+ FGs will beat OSU,
The coaches might well have a series of constraint plays in store for OSU. The first TD with AJ was a great self-scout/constraint play and 3 other TDs required less than 6 yds once inside the redzone - which really played to Haskins great ability to drive his way for a few yards each time.
November 3rd, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
I found the CFP discussion at the end fascinating. I usually agree with Sam's takes, but I think it's obvious, based on all prior CFB selections and stated criteria that if USC & Oregon both win out, the winner is going over an 11-1 UM, and I don't think it's close.
I thought it was pretty much accepted that a 12-1 conference champ is in, unless the loss was lopsided to a bad team, or all 5 champs had the same 12-1 record, etc.
The only way an 11-1 UM gets in is with multiple losses among Clemson, PAC-12, & TCU.
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