Stargazing: July 2019, Offense
It's time we commence our 2020 stargazing, since we've had a slew of commits.
What this is: I like to check in quarterly to see the movement in recruiting rankings of Michigan's longtime commits. This is because how much they move and when can tell us things about a guy. Unfortunately at this point it doesn't say as much, but we'll be able to use this check-in later as a baseline. Also some of the rankings might have changed a titch since I wrote them down because they're always moving a little.
This is projectionable information because of the nature of rankings—sites tend to move a guy based on where he was before instead of re-ranking him entirely. In that context, a consistent climber like Dylan McCaffrey becomes a different kind of prospect than a Shane Morris, who started out in five-star range then slowly dropped back, but not far enough to fall into McCaffrey's range.
Previously: Feb 2019 offense/defense, July 2018
Quick reminder about gravity: Players drop naturally as more get scouted. The sites sometimes account for this by starting with five stars for just a handful then expanding the designation to more guys as the cycle progresses, but since my ratings count position rankings keep in mind everybody should end up a bit lower than they are now.
What the ratings mean: Every site has their own ratings. Refer to this if you're trying to compare apples to apples
Site | 5* | High 4* | Solid 4* | Low 4* | High 3* | Decent 3* | 3* Pile |
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247Sports | 104-98 | 97-94 | 93-90 | 89-88 | 87-86 | 85-81 | 80-70 |
Rivals | 6.1 | 6 | 5.9 | 5.8 | 5.7 | 5.6 | 5.5 |
ESPN | 100-91 | 89-86 | 85-81 | 80 | 79 | 78-77 | 76-70 |
Composite | .99+ | .98-.97 | .93-.90 | .89-.88 | .87-.86 | .85-.81 | .80-.70 |
On with the show!
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QB J.D. Johnson
Committed: 12/21/2018. Current ☆ average: 3.91
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 86 (#27 PRO), #767 Ovr | 85 (#28 PRO), #661 Ovr | ||
Rivals | 5.8 (#8 PRO), #156 Ovr | 5.5, not ranked | 5.5, not ranked | |
ESPN | 79 (#24 QB), not ranked | not yet rated | ||
Composite | 0.8929 (#16 PRO), #329 Ovr | 0.8622 (#24 PRO), #560 Ovr |
What it means: Only recently discovered by everyone but 24/7, Rivals shot him up to its top 138 shortly after signing day (which is when I captured the above). ESPN also came out with a ranking, though it's more in line with 24/7's, leaving Rivals alone in 4-star territory. The reasoning was obvious: Johnson was behind 2019 five-star Spencer Rattler, who's going to Oklahoma, last year. The re-rank came after the Adidas camp in late February.
Outlook: Johnson has some wiggle left since he's yet to put a full season of film out. If that film causes him to hold everywhere else and drop back to Rivals, it's a concern. If it's really good, ESPN and 24/7 should give him a bump (though ESPN often ignores guys after they commit so who knows).
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RB Blake Corum
Committed: 6/27/2019. Current ☆ average: 4.16
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 88 (#32 RB), #453 Ovr | 88 (#31 RB), #363 Ovr | #327 Ovr | #282 Ovr |
Rivals | 5.9 (#11 RB), #135 Ovr | 5.9 (#10 RB), #135 Ovr | ||
ESPN | 82 (#18 RB), #173 Ovr | not yet rated | ||
Composite | 0.9229 (#17 RB), #201 Ovr | 0.9254 (#16 RB), #194 Ovr | #244 Ovr | #267 Ovr |
What it means: We suspected Corum would be in the class for some time so I've been tracking him since last signing day. However he hasn't moved to anyone since then, really, except ESPN came in with a rating. That rating splits the difference between Rivals and 24/7 so it doesn't move the needle, really. His 24/7 slip over time means they rated him early (#82 in the class in their 8/15/2017 initial 2020 list) and have been pushing other RBs ahead of him ever since. This reeks of an early impression that hasn't changed, and since Corum looks like he's already filled out, it might be 24/7 thinks this is an early bloomer who's already showing all he can be.
Outlook: Corum is a three-star to 24/7, which I take as a wait-'n-see rating. They dropped him about 50 spots after their late February re-rank but haven't changed their RB rankings much, if at all. That coincides with an Under Armour camp that belongs to Rivals. `FWIW Top Billin', who's worth a follow if you're on Twitter, thinks this is one of the best RB prospects in the country.
[The rest AFTER THE JUMP]
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RB Gaige Garcia
Committed: 6/25/2019. Current ☆ average: 2.94
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
---|---|---|---|---|
24/7 | 81, not ranked | not rated | ||
Rivals | 5.4, not ranked | |||
ESPN | not rated | |||
Composite | 0.8106 (#140 RB), #1939 Ovr | not rated |
Outlook: Walk-on who'll probably be on the wrestling team but Brian has been raving about his film. Thing about wrestling is it's a make weight sport, which makes it really hard to shape your body for both.
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Slot A.J. Henning
Committed: 6/26/2019. Current ☆ average: 4.52
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
---|---|---|---|---|
24/7 | 93 (#26 WR), #127 Ovr | #25 Ovr | #25 Ovr | |
Rivals | 5.9 (#3 APB), #84 Ovr | #110 Ovr | ||
ESPN | 84 (#17 WR), #105 Ovr | |||
Composite | 0.9604 (#16 WR), #80 Ovr | #51 Ovr | #40 Ovr |
What it means: There was a drop for Henning on Rivals—from #68 overall to #84 to #110—at the same time 24/7 dumped him 99 spots. That coincided with a mass of players whose junior years of high school were now available, and quite normal for guys ranked ahead of that point. It was also the moment Ohio State dropped out and this became a Michigan-Notre Dame battle. That often means they have an idea of what a guy is already.
Outlook: I believe Henning's rating has calcified as a top-150'ish player but he'll probably fall out of the composite Top 100 naturally as more guys are scouted. There's no positional uncertainty and he ain't getting any taller, and that appears to be the main complaint about an otherwise electric slot receiver.
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Slot/RB Eamonn Dennis
Committed: 6/24/2019. Current ☆ average: 3.76
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 88 (#41 ATH), #505 Ovr | not rated | not rated | |
Rivals | 5.7 (#73 WR), not ranked | |||
ESPN | 78 (#44 ATH), not ranked | |||
Composite | 0.8789 (#34 ATH), #491 Ovr | #1058 Ovr | not rated |
What it means: His rankings are commensurate with Sainristil's.
Outlook: Sainristil never climbed because he skipped the camps and stayed in Massachusetts.
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WR Roman Wilson
Committed: 7/2/2019. Current ☆ average: 3.97
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 91 (#43 WR), #218 Ovr | #856 Ovr | #790 Ovr | not rated |
Rivals | 5.7 (#76 WR), not ranked | |||
ESPN | 80 (#55 WR), not ranked | |||
Composite | 0.8927 (#59 WR), #332 Ovr | #1026 Ovr | #909 Ovr | not rated |
What it means: Welcome, Roman. Barely on any radars until he camped last February, Roman is a good example of the elite athletes who turn up after their junior years and displace the earlier lists. His composite jump from 2/15/2019 to 2/28/2019 was 826 spots. Since then he's continued to climb towards the composite top 250 as various sites adjusted their rankings.
Outlook: The hard charge up the rankings has occurred, but Wilson's athletic testing numbers and willingness to camp are the kinds of things that sustain a rise in summer. He'll bounce up and down as other prospects emerge and camps get blown away by his speed, then drop in December when senior tape comes out on the rest of his class and Wilson's Hawaiian exploits aren't registering as much in the contiguous states.
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TE Nick Patterson
Committed: 9/9/2018. Current ☆ average: 3.74
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 87 (#24 TE), #667 Ovr | 83 (#30 TE), #885 Ovr | 83 (#23 TE), #718 Ovr | |
Rivals | 5.7 (#17 TE), not ranked | 5.8 (#5 TE), #201 Ovr | 5.8, not ranked | |
ESPN | 3-star, no rating | no profile | ||
Composite | 0.8738 (#16 TE), #538 Ovr | 0.8748 (#10 TE), #458 Ovr | #691 Ovr |
What it means: There's a lot of disagreement here, and a lot of recent movement, as Patterson leapt nearly 100 spots up the composite in late April—coinciding with 24/7 giving him a 362-place jump—and then fell 131 spots in mid-June, at the same time 24/7 themselves moved him up another 181 spots and four scores. ESPN meanwhile is slightly aware that there's a tight end named Nick Patterson in this class.
The movement is more of a coming together: Rivals had Patterson a low 4-star and the #5 tight end and 24/7 had him in that low 3-star range of guys who usually go to MAC schools or Michigan State. Both sites now concur that Patterson is a medium-high 3-star—the kind that would in the bottom four of a typical Michigan class, or the top four of a typical MSU one.
Outlook: Context matters here, and the context is a TE prospect who's getting no other interest outside of the school where his brother's the starting quarterback. He has also picked up offers from UNLV, Cincy, and most recently Yale. However Michigan's interest hasn't waned—Sherrone Moore came and visited Patterson in June and coached a camp Patterson was at. The fact that they're coming to a consensus on Patterson now suggests they have a handle on the scouting and excitement should be adjusted to that 3.7-star range. The Rivals drop seems to be the most scouting-related, since it was their June camp. Keep an eye out for 24/7's ranking. If Patterson continues to slide this summer and fall, I think it's a sign Patterson isn't growing much from his listed 220. On the other hand, he had a huge junior year, and if the senior film shows more of the same and Patterson continues to put on weight, he could creep back into that low 4-star range.
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TE Matthew Hibner
Committed: 6/9/2019. Current ☆ average: 3.50
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
---|---|---|---|---|
24/7 | 85 (#45 TE), #1047 Ovr | not rated | not rated | not rated |
Rivals | 5.5, not ranked | |||
ESPN | 76 (#17 TE-Y), not ranked | |||
Composite | 0.8485 (#46 TE), #1076 Ovr | not rated | not rated | not rated |
What it means: Your annual who-dat TE prospect Michigan pulled from the East Coast. Hibner's right there with the last two in my composite:
Those ratings mean "We don't have any scouting on this guy but Michigan seems to like him so okay." This one may be from Virginia, not New England, and also listed an inch or two shorter than the other guys, but we're still in that realm where Michigan has done the scouting and the sites are hedging that Harbaugh knows what he's doing.
Outlook: Ironically I think the shruggie 3.5-star rating for Hibner is better news than the solidified 3.75 stars for Patterson. In other words I like the "We don't know who this is but Michigan seems really excited" potential more than I like the "he's probably good enough to play D-I ball" consensus.
Erick All used to be in this category but the sites got a look at him and shot him up to the 3.9s (with Eubanks). I'm not totally confident that will happen with Hibner, but if it does it's reason to get excited—a 3.75 based on potential is better than a 3.75 based on floor.
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OC Reece Atteberry
Committed: 6/23/2019. Current ☆ average: 3.89
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 90 (#4 OC), #266 Ovr | #118 Ovr | #108 Ovr | #207 Ovr |
Rivals | 5.7 (#51 OT), not ranked | |||
ESPN | 79 (#47 OT), not ranked | |||
Composite | 0.8863 (#6 OC), #390 Ovr | #235 Ovr | #232 Ovr | #279 Ovr |
What it means: The big drop was 108 spots in the composite on 2/28, which was when the composite added a huge number of guys who appeared on the scene as juniors. Reese's ratings have been pretty much steady over the entire course of his recruitment. He was just out of the top 200 in March 2018, and is just out of the top 250 now to 24/7, the one site that calls a guy playing center who projects to the interior on a team with two tackle commits in the class a center. Rivals and ESPN tend to put all but the squat heavies into their tackle rankings, and that makes a fairly strong consensus look more off. The ESPN "79" and Rivals "3.7" mean about the same thing, which would be an "89" to 24/7, so the latter is higher on him.
Outlook: Offensive linemen don't tend to move very much, but we could see ESPN and Rivals decide to flip him inside and raise his ranking to coincide with a projection to the interior. That wouldn't move Atteberry a ton, but since he's already on that four-star borderline, a raise to either of those two sites might get him over the hump. I think he's more likely to move up than down—Notre Dame has been fantastic at scouting OL prospects, and wanted this one badly. If the two sites who list him at tackle don't bother to check in again the drop will be gradual and minimal. ESPN still has him listed at 262 and an inch shorter, which means they got their last info awhile ago.
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OG Micah Mazzccua
Committed: 2/25/2019. Current ☆ average: 3.60
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 85 (#90 OT), #1,050 Ovr | 85 (#89 OT), #812 Ovr | ||
Rivals | 5.6 (#68 OT), not ranked | 5.6, not ranked | ||
ESPN | 79, #28 OG, not ranked | 3-star, no rating | ||
Composite | 0.8622 (#65 OT), #758 Ovr | not rated | not rated | not rated |
What it means: Micah is one of those guys who got added in the big Feb 28 group, pushing a bunch of other OTs and OL ranked as OTs down in the process. Since debuting at #842 he's been falling steadily—about a spot per day—settling finally in the 1050s. This entry into the ratings coincided with a move from a nowhere Philadelphia Catholic to the Biff Poggi Five Star Factory.
Outlook: Mazzccua is pretty raw but is playing his projected position at a school that should get all kinds of attention. There's room for a blowup into four-star range, or the industry could leave him at tackle and forget about updates because guys who start this low often get trapped down there, and the people scouting his school have a bunch of other prospects they're paying attention to.
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OG Zak Zinter
Committed: 5/16/2019. Current ☆ average: 4.09
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 90 (#25 OT), #329 Ovr | 90 (#28 OT), #332 Ovr | not rated | not rated |
Rivals | 5.8 (#16 OT), #157 Ovr | 5.8 (#16 OT), #147 Ovr | ||
ESPN | 80 (#13 OG), not ranked | not rated | not rated | not rated |
Composite | 0.9083 (#23 OT), #273 Ovr | 0.9207 (#21 OT), #134 Ovr | #421 Ovr | #756 Ovr |
What it means: Buckingham Browne & Nichols of North Andover, Massachusetts sounds more like a law firm than a high school, and of course it took scouts quite a long time to get around to an opinion on the very large #2 prospect in the commonwealth. Again Rivals has been the most interested in scouting Massachusetts, putting out data on Zinter months before 247 or ESPN gave him more than a cursory 3-star. While he's a universal 4-star, I think ESPN rating him as a guard brought down the composite, since nobody changed their opinions since.
By the way, the consensus of this site is Zinter is a guard. He plays guard now, and played center previously, and Michigan fans don't need a reminder of what it's like to play centers at tackle out of necessity. Foot speed is the common knock, bend and physicality are plusses, which means pay no attention to that 6'6" frame: guard.
Outlook: Notre Dame, which is awesome at scouting offensive linemen, made this a major battle, which is always a good sign. But the time for camps is over and Zinter is probably done trying to travel places to show off. We'll get senior film but from BB&N of NA, MA, and it will be at guard, so I doubt we'll see much movement. He'll hang on as a four-star, and end up behind all the other four-stars.
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OT Jeffrey Persi
Committed: 6/25/2019. Current ☆ average: 3.89
July 2019 | Feb 2019 | Dec 2018 | July 2018 | |
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24/7 | 87 (#43 OT), #542 Ovr | 86 (#64 OT), #593 Ovr | #502 Ovr | not rated |
Rivals | 5.8 (#35 OT), not ranked | |||
ESPN | 80 (#33 OT), not ranked | |||
Composite | 0.8850 (#34 OT), #394 Ovr | #521 Ovr | #615 Ovr | not rated |
What it means: Persi had a 300-place rise in 247's ranking in May after falling the same amount over the course of Feb-April. I wrote about that leap in his Hello:
Those four-star rankings (and a 300-spot bump from 24/7) coincided with his appearance at the Super Lineman Tournament in early May, where he won all but one rep, mostly using his elite length.
It's invisible in the overall rankings because the drop came in that period when a ton of rising seniors are getting evaluated and added to recruiting lists while we're all distracted by basketball. A previous rise came after Persi's appearance at The Opening. The sites are trying to play catch-up while Persi continues a conversion from tight end that began fall of last year, but they've been pretty aware since December.
Outlook: Persi is such a classic Frey-type that where he ends up ranked probably just says how much the services pay attention to the phenotype. If he's 285 by next February we could see a climb into the top 250s. More likely he ends up where he is now: that low 4-star hole where he's not in the top group that gets a ranking. Years of reserving the five-star spots for guys already close to college weight is working against us. A slow climb like we saw from Jaylen Mayfield would be an excellent sign.
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Next time: Defense.
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Here's a screenshot of my spreadsheet so you can compare where the various sites have the class right now:
Class of 2020:
Class of 2021:
My only takeaway from this is that J.D. Johnson looks like an older version of Paul Rudd.
An older version of Paul Rudd looks exactly the same as a 25 year old Paul Rudd
I think also like a young Mark Harmon. (ok, am dating myself)
Any chance of getting a totals column added to the bottom so we can see the aggregate average for the team and to the right of the player so we can see player's composite average as it compares to his fellow recruits?
A guy like Cornell Wheeler has a pretty high statistical variance with the spread of 3.48 to 4.12 for example.
STARs is the average.
Look, I don't want to come across as unappreciative of the effort and work put into this or any of these articles. Thank You.
That being said, why do I care about x,y & z rankings of high school football players. What is this supposed to tell me. That he is highly thought of by a certain organization? Is this some sort of guarantee that they are going to do something well in college because I think it's pretty clear by now that recruiting assessments are a crapshoot.
So thanks for the effort and information. I'll just watch the film, read some overall quotes and that's enough for me.
*Insert standard response about the statistically significant relationship between star rankings and performance*
Next time, before you start typing, think to yourself, "is this comment constructive in anyway? Does it help anyone, give anyone joy? Would anyone really ask for this opinion?" And if the comment looks at all like what you just typed, save yours and everyone else time, and skip it like you say you do with the recruiting services.
I found his comment constructive. There are two types of STARZ ignorance. Type A believes stars mean everything and only 5 stars should go to Michigan. Type B believes stars are meaningless and tell us nothing. This post tells me michymich is STARZ ignorant Type B. See, I did learn something!
We're tracking the deltas as much as the ratings. It's not necessarily about where he's ranked but how his ranks have changed, because that's often a clue to what kind of player we have. Take this example:
Player A: Ranked 25th in his class after sophomore season, falls to 75th over the summer, misses an elite camp invite in winter, falls to 210th in late February, slowly trickles down over the course of his junior and senior years, ends up 300th.
Player B: Unranked until a position change as a junior, appears as a high 3-star in junior year fall, hits some camps and is a 4-star in late February with one site (the one who hosted his camp) super high on him. Picks up offers, commits to Michigan, stops going to camps, returns to a nowhere school, ends up 480th.
Player C: Ranked in the 400s after his sophomore season, climbs to 120th after a huge junior year, picks up a slew of offers, gets a camp invite, climbs to 75th in the composite at the camp and 25th to one site. Doesn't gain size, drops to 145th over the course of his senior year.
All three are ranked sort of in the same range. But all of those drops tell us things about him that we can use to compare to other players whose rankings moved like that. Player A is a warning: JT Turner, Marvin Robinson, Shane Morris, LaTerryal Savoy, Ricardo Miller. Player B is a potential find: Jake Long, Mike Sainristil, Mo Hurst, and Jake Ryan followed similar paths. Player C has to be taken in context: is size being overrated? You've maybe got a Devin Bush, maybe it's Myles Sims.
It's useful to have this information over the course of a recruit's high school career so if I'm tracking it I might as well share.
Why you here?
Can someone please help me interpret the Mazzcua section. I have no idea what "dddd" means. That he should be switched to defense, that he's going to decommit, that he's going to go down in the rankings? Please advise.
I’m also surprised to see Mazzccua continuing to fall in the rankings and was hoping mgoblog would have a bit more on him. Most of the insider types sound fairly excited about him and don’t make it sound like he is on his way to being “processed.”
Sorry, there was a section that got deleted. The makers of this article wish it to be known that the person responsible for replacing MGoBlog content with "dddd" has been napped.
*biennial (every two years), not biannual (twice a year)
this is michigan fergodsakes
Isn't twice a year semi-annual? Bi means 2, so biannual should mean every 2 years.
There's an amazing resource called a dictionary. Using one is better than trying to correct people by guessing at the meaning of words.
Two times a year and every two years both fit the prelix bi, as explained above.
Per Merriam Webster: When we describe something as biannual, we can mean either that it occurs twice a year or that it occurs once every two years. So how does someone know which particular meaning we have in mind? Well, unless we provide them with a contextual clue, they don't. Some people prefer to use semiannual to refer to something that occurs twice a year, reserving biannual for things that occur once every two years. This practice is hardly universal among English speakers, however, and biannual remains a potentially ambiguous word. Fortunately, English also provides us with biennial, a word that specifically refers to something that occurs every two years or that lasts or continues for two years.
So, as I read it, biannual can mean twice a year or every two years, and semi-annual would be preferable as it reduces confusion.
If we are being honest that’s a pretty mediocre recruiting group for a team hoping to win a championship.
You’re not allowed to be negative here. Especially about recruiting. I’ve tried, the masses don’t like it.
At least he was respectful about it. ?. Is there a B10 recruiting round-up commentary coming? I know it’s a UM blog, but I’d like to read MGoBlog’s perspective on the rest of the B10, particularly, gulp... OSU.
The masses don’t like it because, as is pointed out below, there is no reason to be negative about this group at 7th nationally and a significant portion these rankings are subjective “popularity contests.”
The board is polarized on this issue, and each faction has its points, but the reality of the situation is that Michigan has a process by which they evaluate plays — as does every program — that is completely separate from the “rankings”. Rankings are for fans and talking heads, nothing more. Yes, there is some validity to them, but they’re woefully shallow compared to what programs evaluate. Obsessing about them, and constantly pointing at them as definite indications of success or failure (and as a result, shitting on players), is as unproductive as dismissing them outright.
When you post in an appropriate thread, no one really cares; it's just that most of you Doras like to post your shittakes in a commit's Hello post.
Of course, bold move posting on a story that shows how rankings aren't real.
I mean if mediocre is ranked 7th nationally any team ranked outside the top 15 must be horrible recruiters.
If we finish 7th then we probably will have picked up an elite playmaker or two. Also ak was saying for a team whose goal is a championship it’s a mediocre group. This right now is not a top ten recruiting class but we still have a few spots left to fill and we will have to wait and see who we get.
i know we want to blame bagmen and academics for not recruiting with OSU but it’s all about success. We don’t have the depth they do, but we recruit well enough to field a starting 22 that can beat them. If we avoid major injuries and can breakthrough one time against them, our recruiting classes will get better. For the first time under Harbaugh, we should have the better QB and hopefully the better offensive coordinator.
If JD Johnson plays as well this year as he did in his limited starts last season, Idk how 247 doesn't at least have him in that 3.5 star range
I liked JD’s tape, he sat behind the number one rated QB last cycle, but got run do to that prospect being out. Sometimes the big name might fizzle out and the understudy who has a form of chip on the shoulder out works and becomes the better player ask Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady , and Drew Henson that matter how this can be the case. Let’s not forget the talent in the QB room is high four stars and 5 stars with another 5 star incoming. The competition in that room is going to be very high end and I think there’s going to be 2-3 NFL players there. This kind of reminds me of the Grbac to Collins to Griese to Brady years.
I cant tell if Seth accidentally hit "publish" too early or just decided to give up in the middle of Micah Mazzccua's write up.
It happened on a copyedit. The person responsible was given a timeout.
Where was that picture taken? The photographer is the real 5* in this year’s rankings
Patrick is on a mission to visit every national park. Don't remember which one he took that at.
Thanks for this!
Understanding how the shell game is played will hopefully help out the concern trolls.
Here's hoping Persi can bulk up this year with the "good" weight, he'll be top150 if he hits 285lbs.
I think the most relevant thing with this group is they all bonded during the June 21st bonanza and they are already building that team mentality 6 months before signing day, that will trump all the "mis" rankings.
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