MGoPodcast 13.27: Should I Be Kicking a Field Goal?
1 hour and 10 minutes
The Sponsors
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1. Remembering Gary Moeller
starts at 1:00
Welcome to a very special mid-summer podcast which starts out with a discussion of the corn in France. Brian and Seth reflect on the sad passing of Gary Moeller, who passed away last week at the age of 81. Gary was a very important step in the modernization of Michigan football, particularly the offense, and left the program in such a state when he left that they were able to win a national championship in two years. Listen to the "coach's audio" of Desmond's 4th and 1 against Notre Dame in which Gary Moeller asks a very important question. Rest in peace, Gary.
[The rest of the writeup and the player after THE JUMP]
2. Big Ten Expansion
starts at 13:44
Hello USC and UCLA, welcome to the Big Ten? These teams have not really dominated their conference since the Pete Carroll days but this is a huge financial blow to the PAC-[10]/[12]. Should the Big Ten just go for 20 teams? Also what does this do for the actual fan experience? Going to play UCLA in the Rose Bowl every once in a while is fun but Seth misses just playing Illinois (editor's note: I also miss playing Purdue). Maybe the Big Ten should just do away with non-conference games and do a 12-game schedule. What was the point of scheduling UCLA for this season if they're just going to cancel it (the game that got replaced with Hawaii)? If you could add four more teams, who would you pick?
3. Recruiting
starts at 33:37
The 2023 recruiting class is trending from disastrous to generically disappointing. Feels like some position groups are not getting the treatment they should be getting and that is hurting commitments. It also does not help that Jim Harbaugh was flirting with the NFL and the staff is not taking full advantage of NIL possibilities. This incoming recruiting class has very long arms.
4. Hot Takes and Coaching
starts at 50:53
Takes so hot they could be the temperatures in continental Europe right now (everyone's hot takes voice is a bit rusty). Time for performance-based conference relegation shuffles at the end of every season?? Tracy Smith is the new baseball coach. Brian dives into Tracy's past and what it means for the future. He had a lot of success at Indiana but not much success at Arizona State - Alex cites locker room and culture issues at Arizona State (which may have been more of an Arizona State problem than a Tracy Smith problem). Mel Pearson still does not have a contract and the report on his investigation is what is holding it up.
MUSIC:
- "Rhymes Like Dimes"--MF DOOM
- "PBR with girlhouse"--PBR
- "Stars"—Dehd
- "Next to Normal"--Lucius
THE USUAL LINKS:
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
- Direct Download Link
- What's with the theme music?
I seldom listen to these podcasts because they are mostly incessant ramblings-so I spot-checked this one...sorry, more of the same. How about you guys show up with with an actual plan of meaningful points of discussion!!!
In a universe of unlimited podcast choices just turn this one off and find something more to your liking. It's not difficult.
Sure, it's not difficult to move on, but that's not really the point. Critical feedback should be welcomed to maximize the podcast's reach, which in turn makes it more attractive to sponsors and therefore better for the blog's bottom line -- everyone wins.
The blog should want feedback. Sounds like you maybe don't agree in this case, which is ok, too.
Critical feedback is great and I'm sure the Blog crew appreciates it. But the OP's post was nothing more than whiny shitposting. He started off with a complaint, and continued complaining.
There is something to be said for having a plan rather than a free-ranging discussion, but that's never what this podcast has been about. It's always been an open discussion loosely based on several different subjects - which are always outlined.
Understand it for what it is, not what you think it should be...
Yeah, it's hard to get any feedback from that comment. It's like "You guys suck; don't suck." It also makes me feel pretty shitty about giving up my Saturday to prep and plan talking points.
Hey Seth. I like the podcasts. Not like you care what I think, but keep up the good work!
I love this podcast when I have time to kill and I can't stand it when I am trying to listen to a specific point when I am low on time. Unfortunately, I mostly do not have time these days so my listening has suffered thusly. I think it is an excellent podcast for someone who has a drive or weekends to relax.
For what it's worth, I was really excited to see a new MGoPodcast this morning. I haven't missed an episode in years. Keep up the good work!
I almost never listen to the podcasts. I tuned in to hear this one because I'm an OLD guy, remember, very vividly, watching and attending football as far back as the 60s, and wanted to hear what you guys had to say about Coach Moeller. I almost didn't make it to the 5 minute mark because of all the childish banteer & inside jokes. I stopped listening and went to the comments where I saw yours. So, that's my feedback.
I enjoyed the surprise podcast, and thanks for putting it together. This site being as high-quality as it is while also being largely free for users means you're always going to get people who feel entitled to something "better" despite not being able to functionally describe what that is.
Seth, I greatly appreciate and enjoy the podcasts. Thanks for all your hard work that you and the entire MgoBlog staff put in. The quality of the blog is incredible! We are so fortunate to be able to enjoy this blog!
Go Blue!
I too think the podcast has too much rambling about Michigan football. I generally dislike podcast hosts who express general enthusiasm and a depth of knowledge about the subject matter, I'm looking for something much more soulless and curated for my listening non-pleasure. I also agree with the previous poster about improving the experience for sponsors. Have you thought about expanding into a Michigan/Rutger podcast to break into the New York market?
We're all critics Seth. That doesn't mean we don't appreciate the time and effort you guys put into these podcasts. You guys do an awesome job organizing & putting these together. I look forward to these.
If the OP critiques the content as rambling they should listen to other local sports podcasts that some are absolutely horrendous. So in a word...Thanks!
It's jarring that a blog this good can have a podcast this bad. I've tried listening a couple times each year, and it just doesn't work for me. C'est la vie.
EDIT: I'll expand, since the comments generated by the first reply touched upon this. It's not really a criticism per se, it just feels too punctuated by weird voices (often by special guests) and inside jokes. So you can't easily listen from start to finish.
I dunno, maybe my podcast expectations are too high, but i feel like the WWP guys always have a low-key, content-centric discussion that's easy to follow, even if you haven't listened to any recent episodes. Whereas the MGo podcasts are often tension-filled for the listener.
There is an amateur quality about the podcast, but that’s part of its charm. I tend to like these podcasts.
I like the podcasts because its like hangout with your friends talking Michigan... I dont get that in my real life so having the Podcasts fills that void for me.... I dont think they ever pretended to be anymore then bloggers who happend to do a podcast
This. Exactly this. I listen to every one of them. It is natural and not like a scripted monologue. I love their quirks. I may not agree with their takes sometimes, but I still listen to it because this is coming from their passion for UM sports. Nothing like a corporate mouthspeak who parrot the same crap over and over again, all in the name of being professional and attract more listeners.
I listen to most of them and find them quite good, as a rule.
I really liked this discussion and didn't find it disorganized in any sense.
Just another country heard from, of course.
One other thing I’ll add is that it’s hard to get good quality programming on a consistent basis.
I’ll pick on Sam Webb for a moment. The vast majority of his football/basketball content is redundant talking points. Steve Bell (Monday), Eric Adelsen (Tuesday), Steve Clark (Wednesday), MgoBlog roundtable (Thursday) and John U Bacon (Friday) regurgitate the same stuff.
EDIT: I'll make it clear that this was not meant to be a jab at Sam Webb. I like his daily podcast when I can catch it. And I think Ira a good teammate to Sam. My point is that its really hard for someone as good as Sam Webb to keep things fresh and new. So its hard for someone like the Mgoblog podcast to do the same.
How dynamic do you think an organization as large as the UM AD is? How deep inside the org are these guys supposed to go to bring you everything new each week? Of course there is some redundant information! I think you ask too much from people that are only asking for whatever tidbits someone is willing to dump them...
What four teams would I add?
Stanford, (THW) Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pitt.
If there is no new topic, it can feel repetitive. But I find Sam's conversation with JUB very entertaining. When there are hot topics, it is a must listen. JUB and other guests are asked similar questions and you can see the variations in their responses.
A good listen overall; I generally like the podcast more than the Roundtable because it feels a bit more organic and less radio-y (which makes sense given the format).
I'm about the same age as Seth so my memories of Moeller are similar; he had a dynamic-ish offense (especially for Michigan) but his teams always underperformed a bit. I do think he absolutely got a raw deal from the AD, especially in hindsight, but coming off Bo his relative mediocrity as a coach put him on a short leash, one that couldn't handle the media coverage around his drunken night out.
I do think the discussion around NIL was interesting but I still don't understand why people keep complaining about UM not willingly breaking a state law around PfP. I absolutely believe the law should be amended but a state institution is not going to break that rule if it is in place, especially at UM. The fact that once kids do get on campus they have great NIL opportunities is a bit ironic because I'm old enough to remember this same blog/podcast claiming UM couldn't possibly run a competent NIL program, but that's neither here nor there.
ND is recruiting well because they have a young, non-Brian Kelly coach who clearly has more freedom to do what he wants on the recruiting trail than UM does right now. Do I think this bounty of recruits will continue if that same first-year HC struggles a bit at a high-pressure place that (save for Kelly) has eaten up and spit out coaches pretty consistently since the Lou Hotlz's run in the early 90s? Yep. Same with PSU, which finds a way to recruit at a high level and yet still go about .500 for a couple of years now and isn't looking all that hot for another season.
I do agree with the UM outlook at paying tons of money to HS kids isn't always conducive to a stable locker room; I absolutely am not surprised that UMiami is trying to buy its way to relevancy and have already had a couple of guys on the team complain about how money is being distributed. I'd bet that by the end of the year we're going to read a bunch of stories featuring in-fighting at some of these programs because of how they're handling NIL.
I also find it a bit weird that we keep talking about Harbaugh as this super-stubborn guy when he's consistently turned over his staff, innovated in recruiting measures, and seemingly been willing to admit when stuff doesn't work and try to change it. Does he constantly follow every trend as soon as it shows up? Nope, but nobody does that. But he's not Kirk Ferentz, or Mike Leach, or late-era Dantonio, or any other coach he did one thing and wouldn't deviate. He's stayed innovative and creative and so it's just weird to keep hearing this talking point repeated as gospel reflexively.
Finally, I agree Mel is going to be retained and I'm also surprised they haven't pushed for that report by now. I very much assume nothing fireable is included in there, and while I'm also fairly certain it won't paint Mel or his crew in the best of light as thoughtful, open-minded modern men I'd assume most of what he did wasn't much different than every other big-time hockey program (if rumors of other programs are to be believed). I suspect we'll have it all resolved by the end of the month.
Isn't MSU doing some "pay-for-play" stuff? I'll have to dig it up to confirm, but I'm positive they are doing something there.
I've heard rumors but little evidence beyond that; if they are they're likely similar to the way UM promises guys money once they're on the team. Would it shock me if MSU was playing a bit fast-and-loose with the rules on that front? Sure, especially given the fact their AD now seems run by a mortgage broker. But it's probably still closer to what UM does than, say, A&M.
UM has never been the cleanest program in the country; $100 handshakes have happened in the past and will continue into the future. But UM isn't going to overtly break a law the way people want them to, and they're going to move slow but also in a sustainable manner when it comes to NIL. It's why I never bought the UM money cannon being an immediate windfall for the school's recruiting but also why I think in the long run it'll benefit UM more than a lot of schools who may be on a bit of a sugar high right now but will likely have issues down the line with boosters and simply maintaining this level of financial outlay.
I'll see what I can dig up on the MSU "pay-for-play" stuff and report back.
As for Michigan being a clean program (or not). I have it on good authority that Michigan is probably one of THE cleanest major programs in the nation. That's not to say that we don't dip our toes into some improper benefits from time to time, but we are nowhere near the likes of OSU and basically the rest of the SEC.
I documented it here before a family friend whose son was a top 100 football recruit and was being courted by everyone, including Michigan. In short, all were giving out improper benefits like candy, but Michigan was treading lightly here. Also, I know well that when Urban was hired at OSU, he brought a recruiting program that he learned at Florida (SEC style recruiting) that infused more improper benefits to recruits than OSU has ever seen.
Like i said, UM is cleaner than other major programs but I also remember when Rashan Gary was being recruited to UM and there were credible reports Clemson offered him six-figure deals to go there and he turned those down. I'm sure he enjoyed his time at UM and liked the staff but I also have a hard time believing there weren't some things going on there at UM. Probably not unlike what happened with Woodson during his recruitment decades ago.
OSU, even before Meyer, was considered "SEC North" and Tressel absolutely didn't shy away from bags of cash, tattoo exchanges, etc.
OSU, even before Meyer, was considered "SEC North" and Tressel absolutely didn't shy away from bags of cash, tattoo exchanges, etc.
Agreed. But Meyer took things to a whole new level. He used techniques never used at OSU, and it showed in the recruiting rankings. He was head and shoulders above Tressel.
I'm not plugged into even the outer circles of the UM athletic community at all, so my guess is worth what it's printed on, but from my blind perspective I've always gotten the sense that while rulebreaking does happen here like it does everywhere, there's a underlying paranoia amongst the community that if we ever tried any SEC-level shenanigans, someone (whether it be the NCAA or the University itself) is just licking their chops at a chance to go out of their way to make a big fat stinking example of us that'd make the Ed Martin saga look like peanuts. Would you say that tracks?
The state law goes into effect on December 31.
So what you are saying is that Michigan could go crazy with "pay-for-play" for the next 6 months with impunity?
I have a feeling that they are not going to pay even if there is no State law. Having said that, I would love to see the law repealed before it goes into effect. Would UM change their strategy? I would love to find out, but I am 50/50 if they will.
I liked the Moeller discussion a lot. When he resigned I think that much of the fanbase was fine with it based on his last two 8-4 seasons and -- then when Lloyd won a championship a few years later -- Moeller was memory holed. While there may be no such thing as a "good" 8-4 season if you are Michigan 1994 was close to it. Colorado was a top ten team that beat us on the hail mary to end all hail marys (still wish we had rushed 4). Penn State were national champs and beat us by a touchdown. Ohio State was in Columbus, and, as always, had talent (Eddie George, Joey Galloway, Pace etc.)
He was 3-1-1 against Ohio State, and won 4 of 5 bowl games. I suspect that if Moeller had stayed around he would have enjoyed a lot of success based on his aggressive style and recruiting ability.
Good point, although didn't they also lose that year to a Wisconsin team that was 3-3-1 coming into the game?
Ehh, I like them. Hottest takes, Sklar brothers, whoo!
Moeller really opened up the offense even under Bo during the final years. Still remember the trick play he designed and ran on HC vs. Indy 1988 when Indy had been a runner up in the B1G the year before and was unbeaten coming into A2. Pitch out that turned into a reverse which McMurtry threw for a TD to Calloway. That play was beautifully executed and blew open a close game. Love watching the replay with Keith Jackson and Bob Griese while Brian was in middle school probably wondering where he'd be someday in college.
Gary recruited both Brady and Charles for the 1995 season before being forced out. Those are two of NFLs GOATs and in the same recruiting class.
Personally I've always enjoyed the more off-the-cuff style of the podcast. I'm the only Michigan fan in my friend group, so it's nice to get to have a more 'friend-style' podcast rather than having a more professional atmosphere. I get enough of that at work.
Exactly. Even the people I consider my best friends act weird corporate way as soon as they step into office environment. No need to blatantly disregard common sense rules, but we also don't need to be professional robots. I am old and I might have a different perspective than younger generation.
Great to catch up on all things M football a few weeks before The Team submerges for a month. NIL/PFP/potato/potahtoe. Call it what you will. Michigan's refusal to engage is infuriating.
Re: Brian Kelly, I think his actions directly led to the deaths of not one but 2 students. Our daughter was enrolled at ND that year and she knew both kids. Declan's Sullivan's death was of course extremely preventable, I recall vividly my wife calling me up at 1pm that day in Chicago and telling me how windy it was. She had never called before or since to discuss the wind. Everyone knew the weather was weird that day, and Kelly browbeat him to go up and film...a practice. Lizzy Seeberg was a student at St Mary's across the street from ND. She committed suicide after reporting she was raped by a ND football player. Apparently Lizzy received multiple threatening texts from ND football players after the accusation. She committed suicide a few days later. That will forever be Brian Kelly's legacy to me.
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