Rules question regarding a play Colorado ran against us

Submitted by Fieldy'sNuts on

Colorado failed to convert on this 4th and 1 pass with 9:45 left in the 4th Quarter. The targeted receiver on the play was lined up as the right tackle though, which I thought made him an ineligible receiver. But it's apparent from the video our defense realized they needed to account for him (and did), and no flag was thrown for an ineligible receiver downfield, so apparently it was a legal play. I just don't understand why. Can any MGoFootballRulesExperts explain what's going on here? The play occurs at 2:06:05 in the Youtube link below. Thanks. 

https://youtu.be/k-KpNblOcqc?t=2h6m5s

 

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FolkstyleCoach

September 20th, 2016 at 2:46 PM ^

knowledge on this board is horrifying. Come on people, try to learn the game, it makes it more enjoyable. Nothing about this play would qualify as intent to decieve or can be percieved as cheating. This is a straight up football play out of a formation that is not common. The dude isnt even covered, why would you think he is ineligible? Read up on the sport a little before you broadcast your ignorance. 

This is not the Michigan difference....you guys disappoint me...

Joined: 04/05/2016

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SLS

September 20th, 2016 at 2:56 PM ^

OP is trying to learn the game by asking a legitimate question to which he didn't know the answer. Maybe he's a baseball (or hockey, or soccer...) person that's relatively new to the intricacies of football, or maybe he's a more casual fan who would like to learn more. The best way to learn is to seek out info from people more knowledgeable.

Joined: 08/11/2016

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Indiana Blue

September 20th, 2016 at 2:48 PM ^

I thought CU's QB had 2 obvious intentional grounding penalties, and yet none were called.  He was flushed out of the pocket on both occasions running to his right with M defenders within a couple of yards ... when he just tossed the ball out of bounds with zero receivers remotely close, and neither throw crosses the line of scrimmage.  WTF   Somebody "splain" this one please !!!  Thanks.

Go Blue!

Joined: 09/19/2010

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Red is Blue

September 20th, 2016 at 3:26 PM ^

1)  FWIW I hate that rule.  Defenders work there butts off to get there and qb purposely throws it away.

2)  Even if it is called, the penalty seems stupid.  Loss of down and ball gets spotted from where the qb threw it.  So, essentiall it is like the qb got sacked.  Why isn't there additional yardage tacked on?  There is no downside the chucking the ball where no one can catch it.

3)  I remember one of these, and I think the ball went beyond the LOS, but when it did so it was way out of bounds. 

 

Joined: 05/13/2010

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Red is Blue

September 20th, 2016 at 3:20 PM ^

Early in the game, CU quarterback pulls back from center and pretends like he is calling out an audible.  While the qb is doing this and obviously trying to distract the defense, the center direct snaps it to the running back.  Why isn't this "intent to deceive"?

Joined: 05/13/2010

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J.

September 21st, 2016 at 11:44 AM ^

The same thing happened on Florida's touchdown in the Citrus Bowl.  When I tried to look up the rule, I found this supplemental set of examples from 2009.

Here's the relevant quote:

"2. Second and 10 at the A-45. Quarterback A12 is in a “shotgun” formation. All players are stopped for a full second when A12 turns (no false start) and begins to trot toward his sideline in apparent confusion about what play is to be called or whether the coach wants to request a timeout. He is moving parallel to his end line and is almost to his sideline when the ball is snapped to A45 who is five yards behind the snapper. A45 then completes a forward pass to A12 for a long gain.

RULING: Unsportsmanlike conduct for an unfair act to deceive the opponents. The referee may impose any penalty he deems reasonable. In this case the penalty is for a live-ball foul, 15 yards at the previous spot and the down is repeated. Second and 25 at the A-30. (9-2-3-c)"

The BYU/Air Force play from a few years ago (YouTube) was very similar and did draw a flag.  After reading through this several times, it seems to me that it's a judgement call -- for one thing, this example cites "almost to his sideline," but the BYU quarterback didn't even get to the tackle (and neither, IIRC, did the CU player).  I think the vagueness is intentional, actually -- rather than have to write a new rule every year to combat the latest loophole somebody exploits, they write a vague rule and tell the officials to use their judgement.  Unfortunately, that has the consequence of making it very difficult for us, as fans, to know what is in violation of the rules and what isn't.

Joined: 03/11/2012

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MaizeInDC

September 20th, 2016 at 3:25 PM ^

To further clarify: "on the line of scrimmage" is within a yard of the LOS. "Behind the line" is more than a yard behind the line.
There are two LOS at each play, one for the offense and one for the defense. Each line is defined by the point of the football. No one can line up within the width of the football, with the exception of the snapper (who is usually the Center, except in weird formations).
Regarding covered players: watch wide receivers as they line up for plays. You'll often see them shifting a yard backwards or forwards to get on or off the LOS in order to cover or uncover the next closest lineman on their side of the field.
They usually look to the side judge or other official to confirm their correct positioning.

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lhglrkwg

September 20th, 2016 at 5:18 PM ^

Just some trickeration based on using an unbalanced line. IIRC, the whole premise is that the ball doesn't have to be hiked from the center of the line. I believe you can theoretically hike from the RT spot if you want as long as your formation is sound

Joined: 07/03/2008

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slimj091

September 20th, 2016 at 10:04 PM ^

Does it really matter? They lost, they were losing bad at the time of this play, and the play failed miserably.

To answer your question. Sometimes refs miss stuff that fans spot in game replay's days afterword.

Joined: 01/04/2014

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Squash34

September 20th, 2016 at 11:56 PM ^

It's pretty simple, the guy is uncovered as long as you are uncovered you can go out on a pass. If one of the 2 wr/te that were outside him were also on the line I'd scrimmage he is ineligible to go out on a route. He is effectively a te here.

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JohnCorbin

September 21st, 2016 at 9:26 AM ^

You know how there are some plays where the center and QB will line up on one hash, and the entire team will be on the other side?

This is kind of like that.  If you watch the play there are still 5 linemen forming a pocket, they're just not the typical T - G - C - G -T formation we're used to seeing.

None of those linement go past the line of scrimmage, so there is no ineligible receiver penalty.

Ineligible receivers are when you have one of your linemen downfield more than 3 or 5 (can't remember right now, also I believe it differs between pro and college) yards downfield.

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