August 28th, 2012 at 4:57 AM ^
So we don't know how much of a dent there has been. There's no doubt that what Hoke has done in his one season and with recruiting, have been impressive.
I also agree that MSU is unlikely to be talked about as an "elite" football program -- now or anytime soon. You think we MSU fans don't get that U-M has long been dominant -- except for the past handful of years -- and will continue to be in the national picture? It would take serious mismanagement for U-M not to be up there -- given its history and resources.
But here's the thing. MSU is not going away. I chose the last five years as the window because that is Dantonio's era. As several have pointed out, Dantonio is unlikely to leave and he has shown to be good at developing 3 start talent. MSU will have mediocre years, but it will be more of a competitor than it has been. Why so much talk when MSU has won four years in a row? I've heard talk from U-M fans for three years about how this year things will return to normal. But no games have been played yet. Until then it's all talk. I sense insecurity here about MSU because you know MSU shouldn't be able to compete with you regularly.
August 28th, 2012 at 8:20 AM ^
I would submit it is less insecurity than it is general and overriding annoyance with MSU fans and these discussions. Those who reside in this state being more sensitive to the subject.
August 27th, 2012 at 9:06 PM ^
I don't think you can claim Michigan being as much as a national power as anyone. The fact is we have a single national title in the last 64 years. That really isn't close to what USC and LSU have....
August 27th, 2012 at 7:07 PM ^
MSU got good because Jim Tressel and Lloyd Carr didn't recruit guys like Jerel Worthy, Kirk Cousins, Johnny Adams, Keyshawn Martin, Trenton Robinson, Joel Foreman, BJ Cunningham, Greg Jones, etc. all of whom committed to State before Rich Rodriguez got hired.
In RR's first full recruiting class (2009), he passed on Andrew Maxwell (hasn't really seen the field yet) and instead signed Denard Robinson (I don't think I need to list his accomplishments). State got Edwin Baker (had a very good sophomore season but fell off last year and is no longer with their program) and Larry Caper (<800 yards in his career w/ 9 TD). Michigan got Fitz (1,000 yard season last year) and Vincent Smith (>1,100 yards in his career and 8 TD, plus another 361 through the air with 6 more TD).
On the lines, MSU took 4-star David Barrent from Iowa (left the program due to back problems without making a start), Henry Conway (played in 4 games on OL, never started, 2nd string going into this season), Denzel Drone (28 tackles, 5 TFL at DE, moved to TE in the offseason where he is 2nd string going into this season), Dan France (started last year at OT, getting some 2nd team all-conference buzz this preseason), Corey Freeman (11 tackles, 3.5 TFL, never started, projected backup this season), Jeremy Gainer (never started and not expected to this year, 11 career tackles at DE), Nate Klatt (never started, projected backup this year), Micajah Reynolds (hasn't started, flipped between offense/defense, projected backup next year at DT), and Blake Treadwell (dad was on MSU staff so not someone we had a shot with, started 5 games on defense, 3 on offense, projected starter at guard next year). So, one guy who has had a quality season as a starter and two guys expected to start this year as seniors or RS juniors on the offensive line.
On the other hand, Michigan signed Taylor Lewan (two seasons as a starter, 2nd team all-conference, projected 1st round pick), Michael Schofield (started 10 games last year and will start this year), Craig Roh (three seasons as starter, honorable mention all-conference last year, 112 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 21 TFL, 3 FF and 1 INT in his career), Will Cambell and Quinton Washington (both projected starters this year)
One DB in MSU's class (Dana Dixon) just transferred to GVSU. The other (Jairus Jones) has yet to start, has made 28 tackles in his career and entered camp as a backup at safety, not nearly as productive as Thomas Gordon (returning starter) and Jordan Kovacs (entered the program at the same time as a walk-on). 2 of the 3 receivers in the class are no longer on the roster (Patrick White and Donald Spencer) while Bennie Fowler has amassed 195 receiving yards. Dion Sims has added another 232 yards in his career, but that still is less than Jeremy Gallon put up last season alone. The kicker they signed has made one field goal. The one we signed (from, OMG, Florida) just won the Sugar Bowl.
The only position they have an edge at is linebacker where Chris Norman (a Renaissance kid who RR offered) and Denicos Allen (an undersized 3-star from Ohio who no one was clamoring for at the time of his recruitment) have been good players, but we have gotten meaningful contributions from Cam Gordon (key INT against Indiana, fumble return for TD against Purdue, freshman all-american honors) and Brandin Hawthorne (key INT against Northwestern, big third down tackle against ND).
It's a little early to compare the 2010 class (RR's second and only other full class here) but I doubt even you would suggest that we've lost to MSU 4 years in a row because of guys who were RS freshmen last season.
Stop being dumb.
August 27th, 2012 at 7:36 PM ^
PurpleStuff is responding to an idiotic (IMO ... sorry) post by JT4104 that includes this gem:
"... anyone who remotely watches college football can see it had a lot to do with Michigan's sudden 3 yr recruiting run of avoiding the midwest's top talent and going into florida ..."
So simple, so NOT true (as shown above). Even the 'blog debunked the silly idea that Dantonio (a few cases in '09 excepted) tapped the mother lode of 4- and 5-star homegrown recruits to scoop up a bunch of midget Floridians.
It's almost as annoying as the idea that Time Of Possession edges are the cause, rather than the result, of wins.