We Shouldn't Fire RR
Note/Disclaimer: I am most definitely *not* in the Fire RR camp. This post will contain some questions/food-for-thought for the tidal wave of Fire RR posters that will no doubt amp up their rantings.
1) Do you actually read this blog or just post rants? The cupboard is absolutely bare on defense. How much can you expect from the coaching staff in light of this?
2) It's the players who execute, not the coaches. Example: 4 run plays from the 1 yard line, one of those should get in.
3) And this perhaps is the biggest one: The only reason to fire a coach is if you can reasonably get a better one who will improve the situation.
News flash: LES MILES ISN'T COMING.
Two years ago, he might have. He's not now. Get over it.
Why? He's a smart man. He's not going to step into this shitstorm. He no doubt realizes all the things that the Fire RR camp are overlooking.
RR is a very good, highly regarded coach. We fire him, there are a dozen other schools waiting to snatch him up. We fire him, we create more discontunuity, completely screwing ourselves over recruiting wise. We fire him, it will set the football program back 5 years.
So, before you react solely out of emotion and irrationality, flooding the board with totally valueless content, think on these things.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:32 PM ^
Please no, don't start doing this. I know i know but please no threads like this. Give RR next year, please.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:34 PM ^
Did you actually read my post?
October 31st, 2009 at 6:38 PM ^
Sorry, I read the title and it it said Fire RR, so I just said that. I deserve the negs.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
Actually, it said "Fire RR?" As in, a question, posed to the Fire RR posters, which was unpacked in the actual post.
A mod most have changed it to the current headline, which is more informative and if nothing else more straightforward, I reckon.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
Yeah, I'm sorry. People are just freaking out and when I read the title I just said that. Good post btw.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM ^
Did you read the thread title at least?
October 31st, 2009 at 6:34 PM ^
There are not enough points in the universe. As the other Brian put it: "I hate Michigan fans sometimes". This month has been one huge hate storm for me.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:38 PM ^
95% of this mgocommunity hates you.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:40 PM ^
Personally, I have no reason to hate anybody on here. Don't really know anybody, so I can't pass judgements to people I've never even met. So count me out of that 95%.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
not 95% of the community.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM ^
It must be really awkward for people to agree with Bouje against you. No big.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:24 PM ^
SNAP
edit being facetious on the previous post
October 31st, 2009 at 9:30 PM ^
October gets you a couple tight losses MSU and Iowa (both could have realistically gone either way) and some laid eggs of late.
Cue the ongoing talk of regression etc...
You're preaching to the choir bouje.
Best wishes
October 31st, 2009 at 6:35 PM ^
Thank you.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:36 PM ^
There's only one reason this wasn't a complete disaster. Illinois does honestly have some good players, and Juice didn't pile up those numbers by being incompetent for three years. It's not much of a reach to say that they had one good game in them this year. UM just happened to be the victim.
I realize that sounds like sugarcoating. Don't get me wrong -- this loss still hugely $ucks. As well, from a distance I have to wonder about matters like composure, etc.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM ^
We don't "just happen" to be the victims. We happen to be a team that fumbles a lot, can't run with anyone on D, don't have the coaching wherewithall to know that Carlos Brown is not our best goalline option, or that if you need 3 scores and one can be a field goal that you should kick the field goal to give your team a chance. We're not victims, we dug our own grave.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:25 PM ^
but it was, in fact, a total and complete unmitigated disaster, period. Illinois had given up after Roundtree's touchdown. We make really really bad offensive calls with the wrong personnel in the game (until 4th down), and Illinois drives to score, and it looked to me like the team gave up for about 10 minutes. I don't know if that's a reflection on the staff's attitudes during that time, but I don't know what else to attribute it to. But, bottom line, the perpetual fumbling, bad calls, bad clock management, and downright poor playcalling today leaves this undoubtedly as a 100% Complete Disaster. Personally, I think this is worse than the loss to Appy State. We knew who Illinois was. We had them beat and demoralized. And, as quick as that, it's over with the help of some indefensible coaching decisions.
I hope Rod looks in the mirror, goes back to review the tape and learns something about HIS approach to the game today, not just the lack of execution from his players.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
but the excitement of bringing in slot ninjas and 'dude, totally owning the big ten' is over.
I don't think he's a great coach. He's certainly not the coach we all made him out to be. He's made questionable decisions this game, last game, last year, this year.
Plus, we're playing Illinois man. This is the worst team in the Big Ten. They're last in most ofeensive and defensive categories.
The team DOES NOT take care of the ball and fumbles all the time. It's not all on the players. They don't tuck the ball in. Punt returners are lined up too far from the kick. Stupid, sloppy, CORRECTABLE things that just don't get corrected.
Turnovers are random and all that blah blah blah, so judging by being 110th and 100th in turnover margin last year and this year, they should be fucking #1 in turnover margin next year right?
EDIT: I'm not saying he should be fired at all. I realize firing him would be terrible for the program. I guess I'm saying that instead of winning a NC in the next 5 years, I think our ceiling is much lower than I originally thought when he was hired.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:51 PM ^
Illinois is not the worst team in the Big Ten....unfortunately we are.
Please don't neg just because you don't like what I say...I am still with this team, but we have shown that but for a last minute win against Indiana..we would 0-5 in the Big Ten.
That is not me being negative, that is a cold, hard fact.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:56 PM ^
This is the retort to your argument: If we are the worst team in the big ten, then we made zero improvement since last year.
To me, that looks just as bad. You can't even say the conference is better this year than last year.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:29 PM ^
I hope Marvin Robinson can play every position on the defense because that is about all we have coming in. Two years, three conference wins, Penn State 80 - Michigan 27, back to back losses to MSU, countless transfers, three consecutive less than recruiting classes, a pending NCAA investigation. Hey, let's re-up with him for ten years... he's doing a great job. Good thing Purdue looked a lot worse than I thought, bowl eligibility (albeit the "Pizza Pizza Bowl) not out of the question.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM ^
but I'm not as worried about whether or not his system is good but rather if the players can still believe in it after so much failure, which is the same thing. We'll see how the team rebounds, but let's be real here: two losing seasons in a row should mean the door for any coach at the University of Michigan.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:44 PM ^
Three years with what they decided to take on. If we don't see a dramatic improvement next year RR and staff hit the road.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:12 PM ^
football coaching. If we lose out, then all bets on RR getting a third year are off. You'll see that already strong anti-RR faction get a whole lot more swelled up if we tack on another losing season.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:40 PM ^
He's safe. Bill Martin will allow his successor to make any personnel changes.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:15 PM ^
I don't think even 3 years is enough. I'm pissed. I'm upset. I saddened that there is some really really bad game management gonig on, which I attribute to the head coach. I also attribute playcalling to this head coach -- he seems to calling or supervising every call.
BUT, he changed systems completely. "His" players were not here, in terms of the type of player to play his offense. Talent was here, no doubt. But, I don't fault Rod for the transfers or early depatures. So, at least offensively, he was starting anew last year. This year he's working with two freshman quarterbacks (well, one really).
By year four, if we're not a 8-9 win team, he's gotta go.
If next year we play like we have this year in conference, there's gonna be a lot of reasonable people calling for his head. I hope he gets it turned around because I'm all in for Michigan, regardless of who's coaching.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM ^
Composure and wins will come with age and experience. It will also come with the kids on the team having the same OC and DC for a few years a row.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:36 PM ^
3 DCs and 3 systems in 3 years
potentially unhelpful in relation to winning.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:39 PM ^
He's absolutely the wrong answer for this team. This team has NO HEART. NO PASSION. They were not ready to play. I was disgusted with this team last year and I honestly think nothing has changed.
5-7.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM ^
I also worry about the lack of passion and heart that seems to come from many of the guys on the team. But there were some guys who are trying. Warren was trying to run that RB down on the last TD and Graham blocked a kick at a meaningless point in the game.
I also think the team was ready to play today, but they folded when there was adversity. It's like they expected to lose after the big play. I hope that they can get over that. Hopefully we can win another game this year and go to a bowl game. I kinda doubt it though after today.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:08 PM ^
"I also think the team was ready to play today, but they folded when there was adversity. It's like they expected to lose after the big play."
But, in my opinion, and in watching coaching staff I come to the conclusion that the problem stems directly from the staff, not the players. For one, this NEVER happened when Lloyd was coach, EVER. Second, I think the head coach can make extraordinarily poor game management decisions when he gets worked up. Playing Drob the last drive of Iowa is one. Whatever the hell playcalling happened on the goalline today is another. Not kicking a field goal to cut the lead to two touchdowns, on and on and on . . .
This is the most disturbing aspect of these losses. It's really unbelievable to me. I would never have imagined this happening to a Michigan team.
October 31st, 2009 at 10:30 PM ^
I agree on the FG. I think that this game is on RR and the coaching staff in many ways. It sucks and I think that it's going to happen. This isn't the type of team that can overcome mistakes from coaches or players. And there are a lot of both.
After last year, I thought tackling and ball control would be the #1 and 2 emphases for the team. They did both at the beginning of the year, now both have gone to shit. That's got to be on both players and coaches. These basic things have to get fixed or we'll never get better. That's what I find disturbing.
October 31st, 2009 at 10:58 PM ^
For one, this NEVER happened when Lloyd was coach, EVER.
So when we played Syracuse in '98, Tennessee in '01, Iowa in '02, Oregon '07, this didn't happen? I think someone's romanticizing the past a bit.
November 1st, 2009 at 7:14 AM ^
October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM ^
You sir, are a parody of yourself.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:41 PM ^
I think most potential coaches would take that into consideration when courted by Michigan.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:45 PM ^
Exactly.
Not only that, but we have *no one* on defense, and this year's recruiting class would be destroyed. I.e., no one in their right mind would take this job if RR got the boot after this season because coaches can only do so much and we don't have the players right now.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:49 PM ^
Agreed. He needs AT LEAST a third year, and after that the new AD will have to seriously evaluate where the program is headed. I'm not one for predictions, but with 5 scholarship players in the secondary this defense won't be getting much better. What, are freshman going to come in and save the day? With the 5-6 3-star guys Rich Rod is getting it doesn't look good.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:42 PM ^
I'm with you, but I had two problems today:
1) Where was Minor on 1st and goal from 1. Carlos is fine in the middle of the field, but when there are a ton of bodies stuffed somewhere, he's just not the guy. Minor should be the starter, and if he's available to play at all he needs to be the short yardage back. Similarly, the QB sweep call hasn't worked all year and on that drive after Illinois scored when we needed to grab momentum back I hated that on 3rd and 3.
2) I honestly feel like outside of Graham they quit after the second or third Illinois TD in the second half. That long run just to punch us in the stomach was just the last example, but the fundamental stuff was awful. Couldn't block or tackle.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:44 PM ^
This team is learning to QUIT awfully early these days....I dont think any amount of experience could overcome what ails this team. We'll be lucky to get to 6-6 NEXT YEAR.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:55 PM ^
Very good points... what you mention is indeed problematic.
Re. Minor, yeah, that probly would have been the better option. But, my point still stands that with 4 cracks at it from the 1 yard line, we absolutely should get in. That's totally on the players, IMO.
Re. motivation, that is a problem. It did seem like some of the team gave up.
And as for the fundamental stuff, that falls on the position coaches... Who of course are hired/fired by RR, so, at the end of the day he is responsible - although somewhat indirectly - for that.... since he himself (likely) doesn't coach fundamentals but does choose the people who do.
Those are legit criticisms. I'm not saying RR is totally without blame. But, a lot of people (not the poster I'm replying to, but a lot of people) are making a major leap from criticisms to calling for RR's head. And not only is that not warranted, but, per my point #3 above, would not improve the situation, but would only make things worse.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:09 PM ^
For sure we should still score with four cracks from the one. But give the kids the best chance to succeed, and unless Minor's leg is actually falling off, giving him four carries to power it in is the most likely way. Or give Tate a run pass option on the outside on either first or second. Pounding and Carlos Brown don't go together.
I want to give him at least one, probably two more recruiting classes to clean up the talent deficiencies, but we HAVE to beat Purdue next week for the extra practice time to hopefully start fixing some of the fundamentals problems. And obviously no Molk hurts as he's not just our best lineman, he's the leader of that unit too.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:17 PM ^
Totally on the players? You just said Minor would be a better option. Also, "absolutely should" means "should"; it's not a guarantee, and it's up to RR to put his players in the best position to succeed.
I think RR needs a third year, but he can be the embattled Michigan coach from now until he proves his worth.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:43 PM ^
In 21 games under Rich Rod...this team has never resembled a well coached team. Not even close.
Add the NCAA possible sanctions, off field distractions etc.
well...what is there left to say...
Michigan Football as we knew it is DEAD. RIP.
Let's start over!
October 31st, 2009 at 6:47 PM ^
From "WHAT SANCTIONS? ROSENBERG PUNCHES DOLPHINS!!!" to "Add the NCAA possible sanctions"
Most the shit surrounding RichRod was not and is not is fault.
Everybody needs to take a motherfucking step back.
Let's make a list of all the idiots saying "Fire Rod" now so that next year and beyond we can't tell them to shut the fuck up when they start pretending to be fans again.
October 31st, 2009 at 9:43 PM ^
...make the list
October 31st, 2009 at 6:48 PM ^
So then why were those WVU teams regarded as some of the best-coached teams in the country? It must have been all of those stellar recruits.
October 31st, 2009 at 6:51 PM ^
The Big East. Pat White. Steve Slaton.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:02 PM ^
So you're saying that PW and SS were omglol amazing when they joined the WVU team as true freshman? No. They were obviously talented, but only gained notoriety once they were sophomores.
You do realize there is a fourth dimension, don't you? Players improve over time. PW and SS stepped onto a team which had a well-established system with experienced players surrounding them.
There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that what we are experiencing right now is any different than previous teams RR has coached. We are still a young team with an obvious lack of talent on defense; a situation which CANNOT be blamed on RR, who really only has 1 real recruiting class to his name. We have walk-ons starting at MLB and safety, over a converted fullback and a true freshman.
Does reason play no part in your existence?
NOTE: edited for clarity
October 31st, 2009 at 7:24 PM ^
Got it. We're young. But Pat White and Steve Slaton went 11-1 and beat Georgia in the sugar bowl their freshman year. Granted they had some established players around them. I think you might be right, but I think we'll find out for real next year. You can only be young for so long.