Redshirts burned today...

Submitted by Section 1 on August 31st, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Wow; I don't think I've ever seen so many Freshman redshirts burned in a Game One.  By my count:

  • Dymonte Thomas
  • Derrick Green
  • Channing Stribling
  • Ben Gedeon
  • Shane Morris
  • De'Veon Smith
  • Delano Hill
  • Csont'e York
  • Jake Butt

There may have been more. 



September 1st, 2013 at 12:05 AM ^

When the program isn't riddled with attrition and the coaches bring in a new cavalry of monster talent every year, it gives you the luxury of getting your players in and through in 3-4 years.  Let's not fail to notice how this helps recruiting as well.  "Almost all of our skill player freshmen contributed...."



September 1st, 2013 at 12:13 AM ^

might as well play them young to get some instant depth. May be in the next couple years we will have the depth luxury to RS our talented Freshman.

Eye of the Tiger

September 1st, 2013 at 12:18 AM ^

Until a day arrives when they demonstrate that they can't recruit talented replacements. And let's not forget that a 5th year senior means one less recruit later on down the line. 

There are definitely individual cases where it's a bad idea to burn a redshirt, as there are individual cases where it's a bad idea (or a waste) to redshirt. I think it's okay (and important) to scrutinize the decisions they make, but I don't think there's a clearcut answer here, and I think the staff has proven they know how to manage a roster well enough that we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think, of all the elements of the game, roster management is the one area I have close to implicit and unconditional faith in Hoke and his staff. 


September 1st, 2013 at 1:42 AM ^

The only one that seems like it has a chance to bite us is Taco.  We were down two bodies in the secondary and the staff is fearful about what happened in the bowl game, so getting guys experience is a good thing there.  Anybody who can find a role is going to help the team this year and anybody who doesn't probably isn't going to be a guy you want to keep around for year 5 anyway (if he's behind the guys in his own class he's unlikely to hold off Peppers, et. al).  We knew Butt and the running backs would probably have a role and they were in the game fairly early (and with Johnson hurt they'd have been in even earlier).  And Gedeon looks like a guy who would be immediately in the mix if one of the three MLB were to go down.

Charlton is still raw and just has so many guys in front of him (7 other DE played) and the SAM spot (especially when Ryan comes back) is producing pass rush as well so I'm not sure where he fits in at any point during an actually competitive game.  Maybe the staff think he's a surefire off-to-the-NFL guy (and he has the frame to do it) but I don't know that he'll make any kind of impact this year and as such I'd like to have kept that extra year in the back pocket.  York may be the other potential regret, but again, if he can't be of any help this year (just one big catch could make a difference) then his 5th year probably won't be missed.  That's another spot where injury has pushed everybody closer to the field with Darboh out for the season.


September 1st, 2013 at 12:23 AM ^

A lot of this is because we dont have no stinkin upperclassman!  The 2010 class was eviscerated. I dont see this as an ongoing thing in the Hoke era - i.e. playing a dozen or so every year, but it is a need right now due to lack of depth everywhere.  Now the depth is there but it has to be provided in part by freshman.  2 years from now, stars willing, it will be provided mostly be RS freshman or RS sophomores - with 4-6 freshman a year rather than 11-12.   These are first world problems. Team 134 lacks upperclassmen depth so it is being replaced by a lot of people who are very young.  Team 136 I see this becoming less of an issue but even then, if the kid can play and is as good than the upperclassmen or will be within half a season as projected by coaches - play.


September 1st, 2013 at 2:57 AM ^

Going on a player by player basis:

  • Dymonte Thomas: Seems to be physically ready to play, and could play pretty much anywhere in the backfield.  Would like to see him at safety, or just about anywhere.
  • Derrick Green:  Pretty obvious to burn this one.  RB is generally a position where freshman can compete, he's a 5* player, definitely seems to be a good option as the #2 back behind Fitz.
  • Channing Stribling:  Despite being skinny, seemed to be a servicable-to-adept corner, providing some much needed depth, and possibly competing for more playing time.
  • Ben Gedeon: You don't get called "The Freak" by being not being a physical presence.  I don't think he needs a year to "fill out" like a lot of freshman LBs do.  That being said, we have a lot of depth at WILL, with RJS and Boldon.  However, Boldon seems to be playing more at the MIKE, so maybe Gedeon will act as the back up for Ross.  Either way, he seemed to be a good second option to James Ross.
  • Shane Morris:  Had to burn.  No QB depth whatsoever.  Only non-injured scholarship QB outside DG.
  • De'Veon Smith:  I have mixed feelings about this one.  He seems to be physically ready, but I kind of wanted him to wait a year and (for all intents and purposes) become our "recruiting class of 2014" RB.  If he's able to compete with Green for some meaningful snaps though, and is clearly above the other options, then I guess it's the right call.
  • Delano Hill: This one surprised me, but we don't have much safety depth (especially assuming thats not where Dymonte ends up this season).
  • Csont'e York:  This burning really confused me.  He seems to be a player who is not likely to contribute much this year, outside of special teams.  That being said, with the loss of Darboh, we are getting shallow at WR.
  • Jake Butt:  He is the next in the line of the Funchess-esque TEs.  Although he probably won't get a ton of play calls, if Funchess needs to sit out for a few plays, having Jake Butt ready to go allows Borges to continue his offense as he would like.  Pretty easy call.
  • Jourdan Lewis:  I don't think he'll compete for corner this year, he's pretty small still, and I think we might have better options as back ups.  I would not be surprised at all to see him get some playing time at WR though—a position he was said to be just as good, if not better at.  With the lack of WR depth, and general lack of speed (outside a very fast, but quite unpolished Norfleet.  Norfleet was a RB most of career this point, his route running skills are lacking at this point in time), I think he could throw his hat in for the Slot receiver position.
  • Taco Charlton:  Although we seem to be pretty good at WDE—TANGENT: although, I'm far from convinced that Frank Clark is going to be as good as hyped, Ojemudia could be very good this season though, and might be better than Clark at this point in time (just my 2 cents) (double tangent here, Ojemudia looked HUGE from what I saw in the stands, he could be a beast)—he seems to be a physically ready to compete.  From my completely uninformed opinion, the three guys at WDE are about even.  If a guy can compete, then he shouldn't be redshirted.

The two main reasons why (IMO) players are (non-medically) readshirted are 1. they are not physically/mentally ready to compete or 2. the position group has enough depth where they take the year to hone their abilities, and the freshman playing would not help out much.  Most the guys who weren't redshirted fail one of these two categories.  They're either physically/mentally ready to play (Green, Smith, Gedeon, Butt, Stribling, Thomas) or their position group has little depth (MORRIS, Hill, York, Lewis).  In some cases some guys are just too good to keep off the field (Taco, Green, Thomas...etc).

I guess the moral of the story is that I see why the coaches burned all these redshirts.  Most of them were to provide much needed depth at shallow positions, with players who are ready to compete.  The only ones I might disagree with at this point are Jourdan Lewis and C'sonte York, as they both didn't do much outside of special teams (and I don't like the idea of burning a guys redshirt, especially a player as good as Lewis, to have him chase a few kickoffs a game).  That being said, there is a chance both factor into WR depth this year, so maybe that will happen.  But for the most part, I'm totally cool with these guys playing this year


One more tangent:  As for Morris, I still would like him to get a redshirt year.  In my ideal situation, assuming Gardner stays for the next year, Gardner stars, Bellomy comes back from injury to back up Gardner, and Shane sits out, and redshirts that year.  I doubt this will happen, but I still would like to get an extra year of eligibility from Shane, and if he isn't needed to back up Devin, then he could definitely benifit from a redshirt year.

Edit: This turned out much longer than I anticipated it would.


September 1st, 2013 at 10:26 AM ^

As stated above, by Brown Bear, you apparently cannot. That being said, I think he'd probably be the 3rd string QB next year, and he probably would not get any important playing time. I honestly don't think that some limited playing time wouldn't be that different than redshirting.

Brown Bear

September 1st, 2013 at 10:31 AM ^

Unless he somehow regresses throughout the year and somehow Bellomy becomes Brian Griese there is no way that Shane is 3rd string next year. If the redshirt is burned you use him accordingly. 2nd string will get more snaps than 3rd so it makes no sense to move him. The shirt is burned, he's now number two until Devin leaves.


September 1st, 2013 at 8:05 AM ^

We have a ton of young kids and hoke's recruits are really pushing for playing time. Anyone who will be a serious contender for playing time next year needs game experience. I think that every single one of those kids could contend for a starting spot or at least meaningful reps nxt year. If that is the case you have to get their feet wet. I felt like their was not a huge drop off when the young kids went in. I assume that central also had there 2nd string in but I did not think these were wasted reps. Also gedeon seemed to be in on a lot of plays and is large.


September 1st, 2013 at 9:08 AM ^

When I played, you could play in non conference games and still maintain your redshirt, however, that was nearly 15 years ago and in the MAC. dunno what the B1G rule is or if the NCAA has changed that at all.


September 1st, 2013 at 9:18 AM ^

  • Dymonte Thomas: Blocked a punt
  • Derrick Green: Scored a touchdown, had a nice long run
  • Channing Stribling: Played fantastic defense
  • Ben Gedeon: Brought the PAIN on kickoff coverage
  • Shane Morris: Needs to be ready
  • De'Veon Smith: Looked so-so
  • Delano Hill: Looked like a linebacker, good on coverage team as well
  • Csont'e York: Didn't notice him once
  • Jake Butt: Needed as a pass catcher
  • Taco: Rotates in on defense, should be solid at least
  • Jourdan Lewis: Looks a little undersized, OK in coverage

So basically I never saw anything of York, Smith was just OK, and Lewis was OK. Other than that all contributed and some very significantly. So basically, I don't see a problem?