OT: Football/Student/Staff Liability Waivers....
Some schools are using them for football players, while others are not. Likewise, some schools are using them for the general student population, while others are not. How are schools deciding whether to have a liability waiver or not? It seems there would be a universal, inherent risk for athletes, staff and students to return to campus; so why the discrepancy? Lots of questions.
This article from LA Times is relevant: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-25/op-ed-covid-colleges-fall-waivers
Thought it quite concerning that the highly adopted "hybrid option" that most colleges and public schools are going with is less about offering parents/students a choice, but rather to protect themselves by having the student or staff attendance as proof of primary assumption of risk. No thanks.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:29 PM ^
Yep. Want this job? Sign this waiver. And better yet, install this app that tracks all of your moments (at work and not). Don’t like it? You must not really want this job...
August 12th, 2020 at 8:40 PM ^
Or like...
Coach: Sign this waiver Lawrence or get benched.
Player: OK Coach, (sniff) you have a pen?
Coach: Fantastic son, now get to the weight room and try not to cough on someone, you don't look so well.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
Largely a distinction without a difference. It’s the price many of us are paying for the privilege of working on a college campus this year.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:49 PM ^
I get it and I have total empathy, this would be a tough call. I'm not a lawyer but I've anecdotally been told despite a signed waiver it does not exclude you from a negligent lawsuit.
August 12th, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
Yep. I was required to sign a waiver before returning to football workouts this fall, and we're being required to fill out a questionnaire on an app each day before we can come to practice.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:37 PM ^
I do not work in athletics, but I have to do something fairly similar - I would have to get tested on-site and fill out a questionnaire (in advance actually) if I want to be on company property at all as well as schedule a time to be there, and I would need to do for each instance, otherwise it is working from home until further notice, which for me right now is projected to be mid-2021 as the soonest we might be allowed back.
August 13th, 2020 at 6:34 AM ^
If your company can operate with everyone off site for a year or more, then it sounds to me like they should sell/break the lease on the building because you don’t need it.
August 13th, 2020 at 7:12 AM ^
Well, in my case, it's a large public utility, and those buildings that we have all over the region also house crews and other groups that cannot work from home exactly, but I would be perfectly fine with only needing to visit one for meetings and periodic events. Cuts down some of the driving anyway.
August 13th, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
Same with us. We signed a waiver and have temperature checks/questionnaire before every practice.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:04 PM ^
I have been told by various OSU fans (as well as their AD, apparently, in a meandering answer) that "Buckeye pledge" was just that and not a waiver, as that would be a legally dubious document to ask people to sign. And SMU's requirement to sign the liability waiver before returning to on-campus practices was dropped not that long ago, I assume after better attorneys at the school told whomever at their legal office wrote the initial pledge that it was garbage.
I think people misunderstand the difference between someone signing a document that claims to absolve an entity from liability and that actually being enforceable in court. Concerns about public policy, assumption of risk, etc. all factor into enforceability, and students and athletes being forced to sign waivers in order for them to keep attending school in person or compete in sports don't strike me as particularly enforceable.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:11 PM ^
I agree for the typical student, but the employee ones... are. Which makes it a closer call for the student athlete. Particularly those on scholarship...
August 12th, 2020 at 9:37 PM ^
They are enforceable to a larger degree for employees but that usually only covers negligent behavior at most, and attorneys can absolutely paint some of institutions as being reckless in their actions around COVID-19. Plus, it's still an open question if someone can waive their right to sue related to COVID-19 because the dangers are still somewhat unknown and the scope of a waiver must be clear and unambiguous.
My larger point is that I think it's telling that a lot of larger companies have made the decision to let their employees work from home as long as possible and those that require people to return are so militant about self-reported health conditions and the like; they want to protect their employees but they also don't want to get into a legal battle over whether or not their measures were appropriate for protecting employees.
August 12th, 2020 at 10:12 PM ^
I get it, and agree. I think the real ripe ground for problems are those with militant standards who don’t then enforce them.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:07 PM ^
I had our pod's tutor execute one as part of her employment contract. Better safe than sorry.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:13 PM ^
Thought it quite concerning that the highly adopted "hybrid option" that most colleges and public schools are going with is less about offering parents/students a choice, but rather to protect themselves by having the student or staff attendance as proof of primary assumption of risk.
Why concerning? Is the school not also a business? Would you be less concerned when the school is forced to close due to massive lawsuits?
August 12th, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
It depends. If it’s public, then it’s definitely not a business (and also likely has a statutory liability limit). If it is private, then it definitely is a business.
August 13th, 2020 at 12:14 AM ^
I literally, cannot for the life of me, understand the post above getting negged (or my other similar comment in another thread tonight). It is 100% factually accurate and really has me believing that people legitimately don’t understand that private colleges are CORPORATIONS. Does not compute...
August 13th, 2020 at 12:40 AM ^
I agree they are businesses and they are generally operated way more efficient.
The downvotes probably come form your dislike of Swedish meatballs, Irish whiskey, jerky beef! LOL!
August 13th, 2020 at 5:57 PM ^
I didn't neg you but you're not only arrogant but you're wrong. Most private colleges / universities are non profit. The ones that aren't are the ones that advertise on TV and promise to change your life. But as far as the ones you might decided to go to as an 18 year old out of high school they're pretty much all non-profits.
August 12th, 2020 at 10:07 PM ^
No, just never occurred to me that the "choice for parents" that is the hybrid option was in fact a way to cover themselves from liability. Maybe I should have used the word dismayed.
August 13th, 2020 at 12:59 PM ^
Is the school not also a business? Would you be less concerned when the school is forced to close due to massive lawsuits?
I don't believe publicly funded primary and secondary education entities are LLCs or incorporated, so no, they are not businesses. This misunderstanding causes a number of issues.
And, what I'd rather see is them shut down NOW to AVOID lawsuits. What many are doing instead is putting budget first and the expense of front line staff, students, and the families thereof. Those that put the lives and safety of staff and students behind budget should get sued and closed, and the administrators held criminally responsible, should people get sick and die avoidably.
WMU administrators will continue to stay home while they put profs and students in classrooms, dorms, and frat houses. If you don't see an accountability issue with this there's not much to discuss.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:30 PM ^
I agree don’t sign the waiver.
But this is an old out of date story. USC has since cancelled the hybrid option and is all online. So have others.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:34 PM ^
Liability waivers are about as enforceable as non-compete clauses, and it would be really difficult to craft one that simultaneously presumes total compliance with known state and federal health guidelines and yet still renders the signee "fully aware" that well, shit happens.
And speaking of K12 in particular, good luck finding willing subs this year.
August 12th, 2020 at 9:50 PM ^
Exactly!
August 12th, 2020 at 9:36 PM ^
Hybrid Moments is a nice Misfits song
August 12th, 2020 at 11:04 PM ^
I signed a waiver once... all my friends went away.
August 13th, 2020 at 12:47 AM ^
That had nothing to do with a waiver.
August 13th, 2020 at 1:38 AM ^
A good lawyer can rip apart any waiver.