Harbaugh Pro vs. College
I recently read a post and more often have been listening to the NFL talking bobble heads saying how Harbaugh would not accept the Michigan Job because it would be a step down in his coaching career to go back to college.
I just don't understand how this is in anyway a step down in coaching.
1. A pay raise in the millions is usually considered a step up in any career.
2. The opportunity to Coach his Alam Mater & Develop some great players.
3. The Great opportunity to develop young men into great men.
4. Not dealing with billionaires that even though you have taken them to several playoffs and the Super Bowl still want to trade or fire you as their coach? I really question this one, but am extremley happy about it because it opens the possibility of U of M fans getting the coach they have wanted for years.
I could come up with more but most confusing is has the NFL forgotten what came first College or Pro? Well we all know the answer to this is College Football came first. It is likely that Harbaugh coaching at Michigan would develop young men into great men that would eventually be drafted into the NFL. If it wasn't for the great coaching of a College Football Coaches developing the players into great players there would not be Pro Football.
They use the issue of dealing with young recruits & discipline as an issue. There are more colleges with a greater # of players on each team, but it seems to me that the NFL with less teams and fewer players on each team have some serious discipline issues of their own.
Can anyone explain to me why taking a Head Coaching Job at your Alma Mater is a step down?
This is NOT A COPY AND PASTE, just a point of view as to why NFL seems contantly say this is a step down. Just my own personal view and on WHY HARBAUGH TO MICHIGAN which I am contantly looking for a news update that it is a done deal.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
rabble
December 26th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
and we all must bow down to the almighty shield
December 26th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
after Harbaugh is here at Michigan *if* he comes to Michigan.
A scenario: Let's say that Charlie Strong doesn't work out at Texas or Sarkasian doesn't work out at USC or Nick Sata...uh, Saban is ready to retire. What's to stop the big money boys and gals at Texas or USC or Alabama or whatever top-tier program from offering up enough money to poach a sucessful coach from the NFL...and if the situation is right.
That's the precedent that Harbaugh to Michigan will create...if it happens.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
It sets a precident for a big name coach with ties to the school. It's not like Michigan poached a random successful NFL coach. If the above mentioned schools were able to poach a guy with no ties to their school, that would set the precident you are suggesting.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
the next time that it happens, it won't be because said NFL coach is an alma mater.
yes, I do agree that Jim Harbaugh is a very very special case.
I doubt that agents care all that much where their clients go as long as they get their cut...
now mind you, I'm not saying that ANY school could go after a coach in that way. But if you think that Texas won't try that if Strong doesn't work out...and they will throw plenty of money at it.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
I am just curious what makes you think that Mike McCarthy (random successful NFL coach.) would have any interest in coaching Texas? I mean do you really think they are going to throw THAT much money at him? Its going to have to be a VERY SUBSTANTIAL increase for a coach to want to take that step down.
Honestly I just don't see it. I'll believe it when it happens.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:31 PM ^
money at an NFL head coach.
Remember too, the only reason that Harbaugh is even in the conversation as far as coaching at Michigan is because of Harbaugh's dealings with the SF front office. If Harbaugh was getting along with the front office to any extent, he would survive an 8-8 season...
So it would take another close-to-perfect storm of things to happen, to be sure...but lots of cash helps.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
Texas offered Saban 10 million dollars which dwarfs current NFL salaries. Saban is currently paid 7 million dollars. We offered Harbaugh over 8 million dollars. For top end colleges the pay is no differet than NFL like you think it is.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
In the Billions. College Athletic Departments are not. If this were a TRUE bidding war Colleges could NOT compete with the NFL. The NFL doesn't have to overpay because the NFL is the top. If college really does get to equal footing, NFL teams will outbid them for coaching services.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
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December 26th, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^
The Raiders had the lowest Revenue at $244 Million last year.
http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/
Texas was #1 at $165 million
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/schools/finances/
Keep trying.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
The Oakland Raiders also pay $130 million a year to their players that Texas doesn't have to.
$244 - $130 = $114 (million). If you figure that additional player costs, facilities, secondary staff, etc (every other expense) are all the same (I doubt they are, the NFL has to be paying way more... even if you factor in tuition, which wouldn't even be a dent in the total) then Texas comes out ahead. Factor in the need for Oakland to actually make money for the ownership and Texas just having to break even (which most ADs don't even do), and it's a very different picture. That doesn't even take into account extra money that boosters can/will/do put into things (ala Saban).
Keep trying.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^
Most Athletic Departments operate in the red. No NFL team does. Again, you are wrong.
Texas Football has an estimated VALUE of $130 million. The Rams at dead last are valued at $930 million. It isn't even CLOSE.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^
I have to ask after reading your posts. First I thought maybe you misunderstood my original post and now you seem to be defending everything NFL.
My question is why is it that you think Michigan is poaching an NFL Coach? There has been interest in the past. Harbaugh is a great coach. Harbaugh loves the U of M. I originally was asking why is this such a step down for a coach. Why are you so against Harbaugh at Michigan? Is it poaching when all reports are saying he will not be with the 49ers at the end of the season or do you think it is poaching by offering him a job period?
Why wouldn't Michigan take a shot at hiring Harbaugh? No, it is not all about money, but yes part of the equation. Money is always an equation, so is coaching at your Alma Mater and in this particular case the timing happens to be right. From all reports of 49ers he is gone. So does he get traded to a team and place he may not want to live? Coach the Raiders to stay in the area that would most likely give up some very good draft picks and lots of dollars to set them back even more or does he choose where he would like to live and coach?
Harbaugh to Michigan.
Go Blue
December 26th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
"Can anyone explain to me why taking a Head Coaching Job at your Alma Mater is a step down?"
If you don't already know the answer to this, then you don't know much about football. But I will try to explain it.
Because the NFL is at a higher level than College. The best of the best play Pro Football. That is where you go after you are done with College, not vice versa. Things may be changing, but currently the highest paid football coaches work in the NFL, not the NCAA. There is a reason that attempts to name NFL coaches that go to College come up with very few names, while the reverse has a rather large list.
Just because it is more important to you or more meaningful to you, doesn't mean it is a step down. Just because it is a step down, doesn't mean it isn't more meaningful to you.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ^
I was just going to say the same thing as you re the NFL being the "best of the best" therefore a higher level of football so you beat me too it.
However I'm very impressed that the OP thought so much of his comment in the Rumors from a Reddit user thread to basically copy & paste it to create it's own thread. Now that's dedication to narcissism my friend - don't let your brilliance get lost in the ramblings of the other idiots on the board - start your own thread so it can stand apart from the great unwashed and shine in all it's glory!
December 26th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
I am thoroughly enjoying all the upvotes you are receiving for supporting my post while I am getting negged repeatedly. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
It's the condescending tone of your post that's creating the negative votes.
The OP's question is not as obviously stupid as you want to suggest. Whether it warrants a separate thread (MGrowOld's point) is another matter. But the OP's original discussion point about NFL vs. College coaching prestige is an interesting one.
Yes, the NFL is the pinnacle of the sport. But the playoff structure for college -- which will soon go to 8 -- is going to create a great deal of honor and prestige at that level as well. Now the question is this: do the lines eventually cross? Does the NFL elevate to new heights, and if so how and why? Will the college playoff be what kills the golden goose?
I would guess right now more people know who the coach of Alabama is than know who the coach of the Cowboys is. If fame is the objective, then the college ranks can give that ... provided one achieves the success. But that's true in the NFL as well. When was the last time anyone spoke in hushed tones about the Detroit Lions coach?
December 26th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^
You can't just use the top of college and the bottom of the NFL. When is the last time anyone spoke about the head coach of Rice? The discussion is College vs NFL. You can't pick and choose your teams to support your argument. Nick Saban may be the top coach in the college but he is NOT the top coach in Football. Also remember that while he has been extremely successful in college he failed miserably in the NFL, as did many successful College coaches.
People may not like my tone, that is fine. But it doesn't change the facts.
NFL > College > High School. Using isolation stats doesn't change that.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:03 PM ^
Your opinion. Most would say that Saban is the top coach in football.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
He flopped in the NFL. 15-17. No one with ANY credibility is putting Saban ahead of Bill Belichick.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^
Belichick is a very good coach ... nobody is arguing that.
But to say that what Belichick has done at NE is so clearly superior to what Saban has done at Alabama isn't necessarily a solid argument. Saban loses a chunk of his roster each year, including QB at times. He has to constantly rebuild. And yet he wins. In a very tough conference.
Belichick is a master at adapting to things and getting the most out of his available talent. But there's been one constant in all of it -- Tom Brady. That is a simple fact. Saying that does not diminish Belichick's abilities ... but it does point to a reality that makes the NFL>College argument a little more difficult to make.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
Clearly success is the premise to this discussion. That's why I qualified my statement with "provided one achieves the success." My use of the Lions coach was to illustrate that point. No success = no fame. My use of the Cowboys coach was an illustration of a different sort -- they're relatively successful this year (11-4) and yet I doubt many know who the coach is. The illustration there was that NFL does not necessarily equate to fame.
The original post was about whether success in the college ranks can be thought of on par with success in the NFL. It's not as cut-and-dry as you want to make it out to be.
Let's make it apples-to-apples -- Saban vs. Belichick. Both are excellent coaches. There's a good many people who look at what Saban has done at Alabama and marvel. College rosters can change radically year to year, where a pro team's roster can stay relative stable for a period of time.
Again, getting back to the main point -- is college coaching clearly inferior to pro coaching? It's not as obvious an answer as you want to make it.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
Then you will need to explain why so many successful college coaches can't make in the NFL.
Sit down and make a list of those who have tried and faile vs those who have tried and succeeded.
Apples to Apples. Saban tried to be an NFL coach. He failed. BB is an insanely successful NFL coach. His roster also turns over. It's called retirement and free agency. New England is a PRIME example of roster turnover.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:31 PM ^
Other relevant search terms: pot, kettle, black.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
wow- she's one hot babe!
December 26th, 2014 at 12:50 PM ^
For weeks unless you have been totally out of tune or under a rock all of the NFL guys are saying it is a step down to go back to college. It is the great college coaches that developed the great players drafted to the NFL.
It is not all about money but lets face it money is always in the equation. The rest of the equation is that Jim Harbaugh does love Michigan, it is his Alma Mater and at any point in time an NFL Pro Coach can be traded, fired and even the good ones (Harbaugh) which I am hoping is great for Michigan.
I didn't read anything from 1 rumor or any source of a source that anyone else hasn't read themselves & yes I have scoured the internet and every news source I could possibly find including the 49ers looking for a tidbit of info (haven't found anthing more than anyone else).
I was just pointing out that College Coaching is not a step down in Coaching. This is obviously only my point of view. Copy & Paste not so much, I only do that if it is something worthy. Just took alot of what I read, heard on nearly every sports network and put it in my own words as to why I don't quite get the step down view. Pro isn't the best of the best when it comes to coaching do you need an example (Nick Saban) not so great in the pros considered great in college. Harbaugh happens to be great in both.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
Nick Saban doesn't support your argument, he contradicts it. If Saban was the best of the best in coaching, he could succeed in the NFL, plenty of great coaches have succeeded in both.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^
I hope that reply wasn't to me, because surely you read that I did say for example look at Saban he was not good in the pros but has done very well in college. In fact that was the last statement I said. If you read the whole thing you would have seen this.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
Nick Saban 7.1 million per year. Harbaugh with 49ers 5 million per year and just in the past year Dantonio's pay exceeds Harbaughs 5 million. Not all Pro coaches are paid more than college, maybe assistants but not the coaches and this is just 2 examples. The pay landscape is changing fast.
Again, I ask is this really a step down? I just don't see it.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
Pay is what you are going off?
Sean Payton 8 Million.
Pete Carroll 8 million.
If that is all that matters, it is still on top. WHEN things change, feel free to come back and defend your opinion. Until then you are just speculatingl
December 26th, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^
Average pay of NFL head coach. 4.8 Mlillion.
5 college coaches make more than that.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
I think college is better for a coaches' legacy. Think of all the great college coaches Bo, Woody, the Bear, Saban, Paterno, Bowden etc. vs. the pros Lombardi and Belichick? The NFL is a players' league. College is a coaches league.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:31 PM ^
Bill Walsh, George Seifert, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knoll, Don Shula, Bill Parcels, George Halas, Paul Brown, Tom Landry...
December 26th, 2014 at 12:41 PM ^
Only a few of of those guys have the legacy of Joe Pa, the Bear, Bowden, Woody etc. Saban is the most well known football coach right now and he doesn't coach in the NFL.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^
Saban is the most well known football coach right now and he doesn't coach in the NFL.
Says who?
Which of those guys doesn't have the legacy of Bowden or Woody?
Joe Pa and Bear Bryant are legends. Woody Hayes is not even in the same conversation as Bill Walsh. Bobby Bowden would be in charge of hanging up Bill Parcells coat.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
Bill Belicheck has been to 5. I suspect more American's know him than Nick Saban.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
and they are just as convinced that Harbaugh is theirs and will be the Raiders coach on Tuesday. Anyone hear anything like that?? Are they just dreaming?
December 26th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^
Where do you see that? I just went through their entire site and all I see is one writer claiming Sparano shouldnt be retained and that "Harbaugh would be a perfect fit" (which he would by the way) but also saying "if they cant get him they should....."
Can you point me to what you are reading that says they are convinced he is coming?
http://www.mercurynews.com/marcus-thompson/ci_27197362/thompson-tony-sp…
December 26th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
Perfect for Oakland but not for any coach wishing to retain a career afterward.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
Perfect for Oakland but not for any coach wishing to retain a career afterward.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 12:26 PM ^
But will our football team be able to beat Kentucky in basketball? That's the BIG question.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
Given the way Harbaugh apparently likes to play basketball, I think we'd be able to take 'em, so long as the refs let some minor maulings go uncalled
December 26th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
11 on 5? Heck yeah.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:21 PM ^
It is a step up if it is where you want to be...period. If someone else wants to perceive it otherwise....let them enjoy their sour grapes. Assuming he takes the job he is getting the step up he wants with the added bonus of making more than any coach in that other football league.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
Wanting something doesn't make it something that it's not. Coaching High School football is not a step up from the NFL even if that is what you really want to do. No matter how you slice it, it is a step down. It's not sour grapes, it's reality.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^