MSU DBs struggle transitioning to NFL??
Lot of grabbing from Trae Waynes early...which is exactly how he covered at Michigan State.
— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) August 10, 2015
Every college tape I saw of Trae Waynes he couldn't keep his hands off WRs. I knew he'd struggle with the NFL's rules. Easy evaluation.
— Omar Kelly (@OmarKelly) August 10, 2015
It's been well documented how aggressive MSU DBs can be and how much college refs allow them to get away with it, not so much for the NFL. Trae Waynes struggled last night in his first preseason game, mainly because he uses his hands too much. Darqueze Dennard struggled to make similar adjustments to his game last year as a rookie.
Of course, preseason and rookie caveats apply, but question is, does Dantonio's "mug em and hope they don't throw a flag" style make it harder for his players to succeed in the big league? If so, why do they continue to be drafted so high?
August 10th, 2015 at 9:49 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 10:07 AM ^
Bingo.
It's nice to have pro success but college sports fans are most concerned about what a player does .... in college. No different than those ripping Cook's NFL potential. Who cares? He is doing it while at MSU.
It's nice to have NFL success but it's nothing but a bonus. Tebow will be loved at UF forever. Troy Smith at OSU. Mike Hart at UM.
Some tangent arguement can be made about "you don't prepare guys for the league" but as SC said, these were 2 two stars (Waynes was a low 3 at some places) he got into the 1st round in the draft. That's going to be good enough evidence for 99% of HS players rather than "he is not Charles Woodson."
As for MSU they are exploiting the rules as written to their benefit as is Seattle in the NFL. That's the coaches job - get wins. Making sure their guys have 12 year careers in the NFL is not.
August 10th, 2015 at 9:49 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 9:58 AM ^
IMO, most of it has to do with the rules, not the refs. In college, DBs are allowed to chuck receivers as long as the ball is not being thrown to the receiver. This makes it a more difficult to determine if a penalty has occurred than in the NFL where pretty much any contact past 5 yards = flag.
August 10th, 2015 at 9:52 AM ^
How does this relate to Michigan's football program whatsoever? I don't care if it is labeled "off topic."
August 10th, 2015 at 9:56 AM ^
For one, Michigan plays MSU every year; theoretically something like this could impact recruiting for MSU. Second, Michigan is also going to be playing mostly a press coverage defense, albeit a different scheme and likely more multiple, but some of the same questions may apply.
I really don't mind MSU/OSU/Other B1G/Opponent threads, as long as they aren't sufficating. I don't see any other MSU threads on the front page, so I don't think this is really all that bad (though the phrasing could possibly be improved, it's a chance to discuss real football)
August 10th, 2015 at 9:57 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 9:53 AM ^
MGoBlog? I'm so sick of sparty posts! Who gives a rotten shit.
August 10th, 2015 at 10:45 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 9:55 AM ^
August 10th, 2015 at 9:56 AM ^
I wish we had players good enough for RCMB to create threads like this.
/negsself
August 10th, 2015 at 10:00 AM ^
MSU's CBs are specialists. The NFL wants generalists because no trick works consistently at that level (unless you're a freak). So they have a steep learning curve.
The question is whether or not the players are one-trick ponies. Just because Dantonio asks them to be (which isn't a bad thing for a coach to do with 2-star talent) doesn't mean that's all they are. Of course, the easiest way to evaluate collegiate talent is to watch them do what NFL players are asked to do. But that's not the sort of thing Dantonio is in the least bit interested in, he's a college coach. So while I consider drafting MSU's DBs in the 1-2 rounds quite a reach, just because a guy's struggling as a rookie doesn't mean much except that he's a rookie trying to grow out of a college role. If a few weeks go by and he's still playing like an MSU corner expecting his limited techniques to work, well, now you can say he's on the slow side but I'm not sure how much you can pin that on Dantonio.
It's something else that the NFL gives up on players faster than you can lose soup through a colander, but that's the same sort of uphill climb guys like Kovacs and Devin Gardner have to deal with.
August 10th, 2015 at 9:59 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 10:16 AM ^
Mississippi State University?
August 10th, 2015 at 10:10 AM ^
So . . . You guys prefer thin crust or deep dish?
August 10th, 2015 at 10:28 AM ^
Dat deep, doe.
or...dough?!
August 10th, 2015 at 10:32 AM ^
Cheesy Crust mmmm
August 10th, 2015 at 10:16 AM ^
August 10th, 2015 at 10:34 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 10:39 AM ^
wasn't this "style" of play all Narduzzi? I thought I read somewhere that initially Mark was hesitant to play this way...
August 10th, 2015 at 11:03 AM ^
Dantonio was primarily a Cover 3 coach (Saban lineage) while at MSU. Much of MSU's blitz package is from Dantonio's background at OSU. Narduzzi brought the primarily two-high safety scheme to MSU and yes, Dantonio was originally hesitant to play it.
That said, Dantonio saw it work and is fully on board with it now. To think Dantonio (and the defensive staff as a whole) doesn't understand the scheme inside and out after coaching it for nearly a decade would be, in my opinion, a bit foolish. Note, I'm not saying losing Narduzzi is without consequence, I just don't believe that primary consequence will be in understanding the scheme.
August 10th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^
So would the negatives of losing Narduzzi be....
In-game play calling?
Ability to adjust scheme as wrinkles develop by opponents?
Motivational leadership?
You know MSU as well as you know UM, so I figured I would ask...
August 10th, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^
In-game playcalling/adjustments could be impacted; a well timed blitz here or there something like that.
How/what adjustments to make for each opponent. Narduzzi had about 25ish Cover 4 adjustments in the playbook, but he'd only come in with ~4 for each team. Which ones do you choose to run each week.
Narduzzi was well known for starting up in the box and then coming down on the field and had a lot of success with that. Can that be duplicated?
There are a few others. Narduzzi helped out a lot with the LBs. Tressel is still there and a very good coach himself, but that second set of eyes is now a diffeent set of eyes (Mark Snyder, their new LB coach, is pretty good himself in that position, despite a lack of success as a DC and HC, he was a very good LB coach for OSU in the early 2000s). You also have new delegation of responsibilities that guys need to learn to handle. Maybe it's not huge, but the small changes in the day to day for Tressel and Barnett aren't necessarily negligible, does something else slip up because of that (likely minor things, but the details is why MSU's defense has been so good recently)?
Those are the major questions and areas where losing Narduzzi would most likely hurt.
August 10th, 2015 at 12:20 PM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 10:48 AM ^
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August 10th, 2015 at 10:52 AM ^
I am not shocked by this, but I also don't care too much. The MSU team can exploit the rules, so good for them.
Everyone knows why their lower-rated (i.e., lower athletic talent) guys do so well in college. It's the system. That's fine. Just like Beilein's system helps "lesser athletes." It is a good idea. More power to them.
Of course, it comes with its own limitations: One of them is that better talent, properly coached, will still roll over you (i.e., Oregon, OSU, etc.). Another limitation is that there won't be many "NFL star alumni" back to help recruit (or create buzz) in the future. As pointed out herein, it takes a while to learn other systems/technique and the lack of physical gifts makes it less likely the NFL will give you a long rope to learn on....
Jerel Worthy?
Dennard?
Greg Jones?
Robinson?
Despite the prominence of the MSU defense, they really don't pan out in the NFL. I think the offensive players fair better, but that has ALWAYS been true for MSU (a few notable Offensive guys make it in the NFL).
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