The only thing we should really care about is the fact that when asked after the game what was going on, Hoke had no clue. I don't think it was coachspeak, or CYA, or Fort Schembechler, I think he literally didn't have any idea what was going on. This guy is the Head Coach, and he didn't know if his starting QB had a concussion. Cumong man. This proves that he is utterly incapable of running any football program. Fire him and move on. This year's recruiting class is small anyway, and we will probably only lose out on Clark. That would suck but I'd rather lose him than keep this befuddled doofus.
I know that during a crisis (read: loss) this board seems to go ape and we all seemingly over-react. In turn, so-called "rationalists" post about how this board is "effing depressing," and that we're all pulling a chicken little. The fact is, Hoke was at best negligent and at worst malicious in his treatment of Morris on Saturday. His mis-handling of the situation is a fire-able offense and should be treated accordingly. Make no mistake, Hoke took M football to a new low this past weekend, and I think the only way forward is for the program to distance itself from this incompetent dweeb.
I don't think it's a philosophical debate between manball and spread. To me, it's about using a scheme that has the greatest potential with the personnel you have. DG is a spread QB, but he's in a pro-style offense and shockingly he's not doing well. I think the offensive woes can be largely attributed to the fact that skill set of our QB doesn't match the style of play the rest of our personnel.
2013 SEASON: Average Adjusted QBR: 61.4. Standard Deviation: 28.3.
High: 97.1 (Minny)
Low: 16.7 (Nebraska)
These numbers tell the tale. He does have some excellent games where he's dialed in, but the variability is crazy. I mean +/- 28.3!!! Basically, I agree he CAN be a good QB, but has yet to show any consistency. Being that he's a 5th year senior with ~8 games left (depdning on bowl), I think we bench him and get through the Morris Growing Pains this year rather than next.
For comparison, take Braxton Miller in 2013, including bowl game and B1G Championship:
Average Adjusted QBR: 79.4. Standard Deviation: 19.8
He would have to beat PSU (toss-up at best), MSU (certain loss), OSU (more of a toss up than people think, but lean loss). Not to mention dispatching lower-tier teams such as IU, MD (they're looking good), and Rutgers (should win). Simply put, there would have to be a complete 180. I agree we can't fire him yet, but all signs point to him going 7-5/6-6, which means he should be fired at the end of the season.
Wish I shared your optimism, but it ain't gonna happen.
So glad to have this community where we can all come together and vent with like-minded fanatics. I feel like people here are the only ones who get just how amazing and alternately soul-crushing michigan fandom can be. Go Blue.
The only way we poach a current head coach from the NFL is if they have a bad-mediocre year. John won a super bowl recently, and the Niners have consistently gone deep into the playoffs. Unless the wheels fall off either team, neither of those guys are leaving, much as I hate to admit it.
Seeing as how BBall is killing it, I think DB might be able to keep his job. The only way he gets canned is if we can't sell out any home games. If football becomes less profitable, then yes I'll think he gets canned. It's like the Lions. Millen was a complete moron, but he kept putting butts in seats which is why he lingered so long.
In 2011, Hoke knew that he basically had to work with what he had...a spread offense. In 2012 they decide to be stubborn, and the offense falters. Point being, when coaches run the scheme that best fits their players (and the most important player, the QB) things generally work out better than when they try to force their system onto a guy that wasn't recruited for such a purpose.
I think he's still messed up from last season. This year the pass pro seems worlds better, but his numbers aren't. I understand it's a new system, but it feels like he's holding onto the ball for too long. I also don't see him stepping into throws and delivering the ball confidently. This has been mentioned ad nasuem but he does stare down his target the whole time and rarely goes to a check down. He's just not a good QB. IMO, 5 picks in 4 games mean you don't get to start anymore.
Under RR, the guy was unstopable. 2012 was rough, mostly Denard chucking the ball 400 ft in the air toward hemmingway and hoping for the best. Similar trajectory for DG; they're forcing a round peg into a square hole. Guy's not a pocket QB, and never has been.
Usually I would agree with Brian and say that firing the HC mid-season basically torpedoes your season and ruins recruiting. In the case of Hoke however, I'm not sure that necessarily torpedoes the season, as Hoke doesn't seem to do much during games in terms of strategy. Put Mattison as interim and see what happens. In terms of recruiting, if we're going to fire him anyway it simply delays the inevitable. Plus, this year's class is so small that any effect on recruiting will be that much smaller, particularly if we announce a blockbuster hire (I know everybody on here thinks that getting a Harbaugh is a pipe dream, but you gotta have faith).
Bottom line: this program has regressed under Hoke's leadership. Sure his players love him, but nobody cares unless you win, and at this point in his tenure, we should be able to condifently predict 9 wins.
I feel like this has been a thing with Devin since last year. It seems to me he locks onto a target pretty early and tries to fit throws into tiny windows as opposed to making reads. Am I wrong?
If you think about pass blocking, the only objective is to prevent the guy from getting around you or pushing you into the QB. They're taught to cede ground, as long as the defender stays in front of them. Miller got worked a few times there, but the nose never got around him. Sure, they ran a bunch of stunts and we were beat a couple of times but overall, I thought the line played well in pass pro. To me, the problem is with Devin. He took a painfully-long time to get rid of the ball on Saturday.
Without him we would have been 5-7. Guy has done a bang up job coaching up the D composed of mainly 3/4 star recruits. He has a tough time with the spread, but so does everybody else (see Iron Bowl 2014). I think with him at the helm, we could easily be a dominant defense in 2015.
And they have won 2 conference championships in the past 10+ years. I would argue that for Narduzzi, it would be a "horrible" move. Purdue will come knocking, if not somebody else.
Sounds like Texas could write him a blank check. He's put together a great team at Baylor, think of what he could do with the resources and tradition at UT.
To Fire Borges, or not to Fire Borges? WolvinLA2 is right about the potential downside for firing him. We've seen how continuity (or the perceived lack thereof) can hurt a program: see Jabrill Peppers etc. The question is, will Borgesball work 1-2 years down the line AND will we be a dominant offense even then? I'm not convinced that ole Al is worth another year of hair-pulling. IMHO, I think we need to cut our losses and pay an OC a gaudy amount of moolah to call plays and get a dedicated QB coach.
During his first year, I loved that Hoke was basically unflappable and constantly encouraging. I think the constant encouragement was important during that first year and helped ease the transition. It developed trust with the players and coaches, and was in stark contrast to RR. At this point, however, I'm sick of good-natured salt-of-the-earth Hoke. Attitude starts at the top and trickles its way down. His relaxed attitude is a liability at this point. Look at Narduzzi...the guy's an asshole (telling his kids he wants them to hurt people http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/36168/msu-coordinator-narduzzi-defends-defense) but the attitude has trickled its way down to the MSU D.
It's time to take the kid gloves off. We need Hoke and the staff to turn up the intensity. This is no longer a "team in transition." It's year 3 and we seem to be regressing...Hoke and Co. need a big win, and need it now. It'll be another presser full of coachspeak about accountability and "evaluating the tape," but the message is clear: these guys are on their heels and this season is one game away from going off the rails.
Thanks but no thanks. Much as I love women's basketball, it would be the only positive in the mighty huskies joining the B1G. It's bad enough we are going to have to deal with Rutgers (loved watching them beat Bielema and his widow's peak) and Maryland. Stop the madness.
Recent Comments
I was shocked when I made the account that nobody else had snatched it up. Will do...but first how exactly do I do that?
Bo of course! Great quote.
The only thing we should really care about is the fact that when asked after the game what was going on, Hoke had no clue. I don't think it was coachspeak, or CYA, or Fort Schembechler, I think he literally didn't have any idea what was going on. This guy is the Head Coach, and he didn't know if his starting QB had a concussion. Cumong man. This proves that he is utterly incapable of running any football program. Fire him and move on. This year's recruiting class is small anyway, and we will probably only lose out on Clark. That would suck but I'd rather lose him than keep this befuddled doofus.
I know that during a crisis (read: loss) this board seems to go ape and we all seemingly over-react. In turn, so-called "rationalists" post about how this board is "effing depressing," and that we're all pulling a chicken little. The fact is, Hoke was at best negligent and at worst malicious in his treatment of Morris on Saturday. His mis-handling of the situation is a fire-able offense and should be treated accordingly. Make no mistake, Hoke took M football to a new low this past weekend, and I think the only way forward is for the program to distance itself from this incompetent dweeb.
I don't think it's a philosophical debate between manball and spread. To me, it's about using a scheme that has the greatest potential with the personnel you have. DG is a spread QB, but he's in a pro-style offense and shockingly he's not doing well. I think the offensive woes can be largely attributed to the fact that skill set of our QB doesn't match the style of play the rest of our personnel.
2013 SEASON: Average Adjusted QBR: 61.4. Standard Deviation: 28.3.
High: 97.1 (Minny)
Low: 16.7 (Nebraska)
These numbers tell the tale. He does have some excellent games where he's dialed in, but the variability is crazy. I mean +/- 28.3!!! Basically, I agree he CAN be a good QB, but has yet to show any consistency. Being that he's a 5th year senior with ~8 games left (depdning on bowl), I think we bench him and get through the Morris Growing Pains this year rather than next.
For comparison, take Braxton Miller in 2013, including bowl game and B1G Championship:
Average Adjusted QBR: 79.4. Standard Deviation: 19.8
He would have to beat PSU (toss-up at best), MSU (certain loss), OSU (more of a toss up than people think, but lean loss). Not to mention dispatching lower-tier teams such as IU, MD (they're looking good), and Rutgers (should win). Simply put, there would have to be a complete 180. I agree we can't fire him yet, but all signs point to him going 7-5/6-6, which means he should be fired at the end of the season.
Wish I shared your optimism, but it ain't gonna happen.
So glad to have this community where we can all come together and vent with like-minded fanatics. I feel like people here are the only ones who get just how amazing and alternately soul-crushing michigan fandom can be. Go Blue.
The only way we poach a current head coach from the NFL is if they have a bad-mediocre year. John won a super bowl recently, and the Niners have consistently gone deep into the playoffs. Unless the wheels fall off either team, neither of those guys are leaving, much as I hate to admit it.
I know he probably didn't write these himself, but c'mon man.
http://www.lostlettermen.com/article/miss-state-sends-recruit-weird-let…
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2013/4/10/4207710/c…
Seeing as how BBall is killing it, I think DB might be able to keep his job. The only way he gets canned is if we can't sell out any home games. If football becomes less profitable, then yes I'll think he gets canned. It's like the Lions. Millen was a complete moron, but he kept putting butts in seats which is why he lingered so long.
Starting on Offense:
DG: 4 Stars
DFunch: 3 Stars
Green: 5 Stars
Darboh: 4 Stars
Chesson: 3 Stars
Butt: 4 Stars
Cole: 4 Stars
Manguson: 4 Stars
Miller: 3 Stars
Glasgow: Walk On
Braden: 3 Stars
2011: Denard/Borges fusion cusine. Put up gaudy numbers, DRob gets to run around.
Passing: 2173 YDS, 20 TDs/ 15 INTs, Rushing: 1176 YDS, 16 TDs
2012: Time to start installing MANBALL, regardless of roster. DRob must stay in pocket because we don't want him to get hurt.
Passing: 1319 YDS, 9 TDs/ 9 INTs, Rushing: 1266 YDS, 7 TDs
In 2011, Hoke knew that he basically had to work with what he had...a spread offense. In 2012 they decide to be stubborn, and the offense falters. Point being, when coaches run the scheme that best fits their players (and the most important player, the QB) things generally work out better than when they try to force their system onto a guy that wasn't recruited for such a purpose.
I think he's still messed up from last season. This year the pass pro seems worlds better, but his numbers aren't. I understand it's a new system, but it feels like he's holding onto the ball for too long. I also don't see him stepping into throws and delivering the ball confidently. This has been mentioned ad nasuem but he does stare down his target the whole time and rarely goes to a check down. He's just not a good QB. IMO, 5 picks in 4 games mean you don't get to start anymore.
Under RR, the guy was unstopable. 2012 was rough, mostly Denard chucking the ball 400 ft in the air toward hemmingway and hoping for the best. Similar trajectory for DG; they're forcing a round peg into a square hole. Guy's not a pocket QB, and never has been.
Usually I would agree with Brian and say that firing the HC mid-season basically torpedoes your season and ruins recruiting. In the case of Hoke however, I'm not sure that necessarily torpedoes the season, as Hoke doesn't seem to do much during games in terms of strategy. Put Mattison as interim and see what happens. In terms of recruiting, if we're going to fire him anyway it simply delays the inevitable. Plus, this year's class is so small that any effect on recruiting will be that much smaller, particularly if we announce a blockbuster hire (I know everybody on here thinks that getting a Harbaugh is a pipe dream, but you gotta have faith).
Bottom line: this program has regressed under Hoke's leadership. Sure his players love him, but nobody cares unless you win, and at this point in his tenure, we should be able to condifently predict 9 wins.
I feel like this has been a thing with Devin since last year. It seems to me he locks onto a target pretty early and tries to fit throws into tiny windows as opposed to making reads. Am I wrong?
I mean it turned out OKAY, but why not take a shot?
If you think about pass blocking, the only objective is to prevent the guy from getting around you or pushing you into the QB. They're taught to cede ground, as long as the defender stays in front of them. Miller got worked a few times there, but the nose never got around him. Sure, they ran a bunch of stunts and we were beat a couple of times but overall, I thought the line played well in pass pro. To me, the problem is with Devin. He took a painfully-long time to get rid of the ball on Saturday.
Love it!
Without him we would have been 5-7. Guy has done a bang up job coaching up the D composed of mainly 3/4 star recruits. He has a tough time with the spread, but so does everybody else (see Iron Bowl 2014). I think with him at the helm, we could easily be a dominant defense in 2015.
I really hope somebody poaches him. Really tired of getting manhandled by their D.
And they have won 2 conference championships in the past 10+ years. I would argue that for Narduzzi, it would be a "horrible" move. Purdue will come knocking, if not somebody else.
Sounds like Texas could write him a blank check. He's put together a great team at Baylor, think of what he could do with the resources and tradition at UT.
I love that Hoke's plate is piled about a foot high and he's eating with his hands.
To Fire Borges, or not to Fire Borges? WolvinLA2 is right about the potential downside for firing him. We've seen how continuity (or the perceived lack thereof) can hurt a program: see Jabrill Peppers etc. The question is, will Borgesball work 1-2 years down the line AND will we be a dominant offense even then? I'm not convinced that ole Al is worth another year of hair-pulling. IMHO, I think we need to cut our losses and pay an OC a gaudy amount of moolah to call plays and get a dedicated QB coach.
During his first year, I loved that Hoke was basically unflappable and constantly encouraging. I think the constant encouragement was important during that first year and helped ease the transition. It developed trust with the players and coaches, and was in stark contrast to RR. At this point, however, I'm sick of good-natured salt-of-the-earth Hoke. Attitude starts at the top and trickles its way down. His relaxed attitude is a liability at this point. Look at Narduzzi...the guy's an asshole (telling his kids he wants them to hurt people http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/36168/msu-coordinator-narduzzi-defends-defense) but the attitude has trickled its way down to the MSU D.
It's time to take the kid gloves off. We need Hoke and the staff to turn up the intensity. This is no longer a "team in transition." It's year 3 and we seem to be regressing...Hoke and Co. need a big win, and need it now. It'll be another presser full of coachspeak about accountability and "evaluating the tape," but the message is clear: these guys are on their heels and this season is one game away from going off the rails.
Thanks but no thanks. Much as I love women's basketball, it would be the only positive in the mighty huskies joining the B1G. It's bad enough we are going to have to deal with Rutgers (loved watching them beat Bielema and his widow's peak) and Maryland. Stop the madness.