Unfortunately Franz had his John Starks moment which ultimately sunk the Magic's ship. But he's just 22 years old. He'll only get better. Orland's future is bright.
"Nobody since Tyrone Wheatley has turned down the chance to go in the top 10 in the draft to return to school..."
You forgot about Andrew Luck. And I think the Penn State LT Olu Fashanu was projected top 10 last year and still came back. In 35 years of watching college football, those are the only three I recall. So yea obviously an extremely rare phenomenon.
"It's pretty remarkable. I'll say this: I've been around this sport my entire life. My dad was a high school football coach. I've been going to his practices and been around teams since I was two, three years old. So in 38 years now — I'm 42, so in 38, 39 years — that was the most unique team I have ever been around in my entire career.
They were completely unselfish. They were totally unfazed, and they were so specifically focused, more so than any other team that I've been around.
I don't know if there's a secret sauce outside of: They had a group of men that came together for a common cause that was bigger than themselves. And they did it to a degree that I've never seen before."
Even if the 2024 defense is better than last year it will look significantly worse statistically. The schedule is tougher and our offense will put the defense in tough spots more often.
Thanks for doing the hard work to trying to find the play Henson's Mobile, but I think you linked one of the videos wrong. They're both linked to the same hit (Thomas vs #10). I actually tried to find the play myself--no longer confident it even existed--but I found it. It occurs at the 1:55:52 mark. The Arrington hit is not as vicious as I remembered (my fuzzy memory had Arrington leaving his feat and spearheading him which obviously did not happen). In fact Thomas laid the wood more than Arrington on that play. Still an epic collision tho.
The most obscure highlight I can think of: I only remember it from a live viewing almost 25 years ago. Never seen a replay of it. At this point it feels more like a dream than a memory so I'm not sure how reliable it is. It happened during the Michigan-Penn State 1999 game. Anthony Thomas had the ball and LaVar Arrington spearheaded him in one of the most vicious hits I have ever seen. A truly massive collision between two college football icons. After the play Thomas got up like it was nothing. Arrington stayed on the ground for several minutes. No single play sums up the difference between Michigan football and Penn State football better than that play.
"I am noticing that the OSU number of players drafted are lower."
That's an illusion. tO$U had like 8 top 100 guys they brought back with their strong NIL program. They're going all in this year to beat Michiga and win the national title. Ironically if Michigan barely beats the draft record it will be due to Ohio State's NIL program.
Agree with OP that Ohio State 2021 is Harbaugh's best win. I will always love McNamara but we're talking about a QB that will never make an NFL roster. Finding a way to convincingly beat THAT loaded team with a jag at QB is absolutely his best win.
Yep I'm scared to death of our QB situation. I'm actually hoping Tuttle wins the job and can be our next Rudock. Then we get our cake and eat it too cuz Orji packages will still be a part of our offense. Problem is there's no reason to believe in Tuttle. Dude could never win the starting job at Indiana. Our QB situation is downright frightening to anyone who is willing to be rational about this. I'm hoping for portal magic at this point. Don't see any other choice.
Unions are organs of democracy that give the powerless a way to defend themselves from the powerful. There's only two types of people who hate on unions: the owning class and those brainwashed by the owning class.
Assuming that this is a real problem-- (I'm skeptical cuz other programs have figured it out)--it would still be super easy to get all players to at least be ok with paying big money for a 5* QB. Everyone wants to win and a 5* QB makes everyone look better, even the defense, as a better offense means the defense will be more rested and put in terrible spots less often.
So the idea that paying for an elite QB could cause locker room issues is pure BS. Even a program as cheap as Michigan who doesn't care about winning to the level of Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc should be willing to at least pay top dollar for a QB.
"And what exactly does illegally paying a player look like in today's college football?"
This is an extremely disingenuous thing to say. Our QB room was built in the past. It has only been a little over a month since the NCAA announced it was going to suspend enforcement of NIL pay for play rendering pretty much everything effectively legal.
The top programs in the country have been ignoring the rules for decades. Michigan hasn't. You can look at our pedestrian recruiting over the last 3 historically great years to see that much. Literally the #1 reason Ohio State pulled away from us in the 21st century is cuz they were willing to illegally pay players and we weren't (Tressel/Urban).
Also the number #1 reason Harbaugh had such a hard time recruiting top QBs is cuz it was pretty much established before the beginning of his tenure that you have to illegally pay to get a legit 5* level QB.
Just be happy Ryan Day chose McCord over JJ. It is both remarkable and humbling to acknowledge the fact that IF Ryan Day was juuust smart enough to figure out that a QB who can run and pass is better than a QB who can only pass, Michigan never wins a national title.
Been watching since 1988. Thought about all the times I've been THIS pessimistic about our QB room (excluding covid year). Years that come to mind:
1995: Kids too young and inexperienced. Record 9-4.
2001: After Henson got yanked away. Record 8-4.
2008: Obviously. Record 3-9.
2009: Projected starters are true freshmen. Record 5-7.
2015: It was a scary room before we got Rudock. Record 10-3.
2016: Once Speight Won the job--which implied Okorn wasnt very good--I was bummed. Felt we needed a more dynamic QB to compete for a national championship. Record 10-3
2023: We have virtually zero evidence of having a P5 level passer on this roster. It's downright frightening but this is what can happen when you don't illegally pay players like the Ohio States, Georgias, Bamas, etc. Our only hope as far as I can tell is Tuttle winning the job and being equivalent to McNamara with Orji package sprinkled in.
Adding up the above records we averaged 7.5 wins and 5 losses. Given our brutal schedule 7-5 seems like a very good prediction for this year. And honestly I think it takes a massive amount of kool-aid drinking to expect much more than that.
Cliffs: We just won the natty. Lets relax. There's no point in stressing/worrying about this year when the handwriting is on the wall. No QB + THAT schedule = We're not gonna be that good. Hopes and wishes can't change reality. Find peace. Lower expectations accordingly and enjoy the bumpy ride.
Has a player for Michigan football ever been illegally compensated? I would bet serious money the answer to that question is yes. Just sheer numbers of people we're talking about over the years. Probability alone makes it a lock it's happened before.
But institutionally we don't do that. That much is obvious. We just went 40-3 over the last 3 years, 3 Big Ten championships, a national championship and we recruit like we're a perennial 8-4 team. Why is that? Cuz we don't illegally pay players. That's the key to getting top 5, top 3, #1 classes. So our relatively weak recruiting classes alone given our historical success is strong circumstantial evidence we don't illegally pay recruits.
And btw I'm not happy about this. No sanctimony here. I want us to illegally pay. I want the top classes. I think the idea that it's "illegal" is a joke. We're talking about rules here created by greedy psychopaths.
So what Harbaugh accomplished when you consider the above...well it literally may be the greatest accomplishment in college football history.
There are what 8 billion people on this planet and I seriously wonder if Harbaugh is the only person who could've pulled off what he did at Michigan. We don't illegally pay players which should cripple us vs big time programs like Ohio State and Bama and yet we go 40-3 and win a national title anyways. Harbaugh truly might be a unicorn.
That's a great story man. Hope to meet you someday if you come to vegas. All you gotta do is show up to that tournament and I'll be there. Alot of Michiganders there but only three UofM fans including me. Sounds like you and your dad were really close. Time flies so fast. Hope you are holding up well on the anniversary.
Any time you guys come to vegas come to our euchre tournament. Thursdays at 7:30. Fun times. Go to vegaseuchre.com for details. My pic is on the front page. I look very intimidating!
I remember talking to my dad before the 21 game. We've been watching Michigan football games together since 1988. I told him I think we have 20% equity which sounds bad but this is our best chance in years. I did not feel good about our team's chances in 17, 18 and 19 (yes even in 18 when we were a 4 pt fav).
I'll be honest about 2022. I was very pessimistic going into that game. I was just hoping we wouldn't get blown out. Keep the game reasonably close to maximize our playoff chances in a loss. Never been happier in my sports life after that game.
It's really disturbing how delusional people are around here. We had a great 3 year run, but thats over now. We lost 6 linemen and our goat QB. Ohio State is loaded everywhere. Theyre at home. If I had to set the line I'd be Ohio State -14.5 so yea I'm surprised it's only 7. There should be zero confidence about that game. Again we had a great run, but it's Ohio State's turn now. That's the way it goes. It's sports.
The less the starters play the less likely they'll get injured right? Fairly simple conclusion we'd all agree with. Given all the games the starters got to rest on the sidelines in the 2nd half I think it's safe to assume that contributed to our overall good injury luck (which was good overall despite the key loss of Zinter).
We can be one of the 12 best teams and NOT get in. In fact that's a fairly likely scenario. New QB plus arguably the toughest schedule Michigan has ever played = 3 losses minimum, and 3 losses will usually be all it takes to be eliminated.
PS: Yes we will have a great defense, but that's just one variable.
With last year's schedule we'd be guaranteed to make the playoffs this year. With this year's schedule we are literally eliminated from the playoffs before the season begins except for the slim hope a 9-3 team gets in. So yea, OPs point if anything is a massive understatement.
Still will cheer hard for this team but anyone who thinks we're going to the playoffs with a new QB--who doesn't track to be very good--plus THAT schedule is pretty delusional.
Hawkins is a pure winner. Will never forget his strip/fumble recovery in the Nebraska game that probably saved our season and enabled this program to break the Big Ten championship drought. That will always get my vote as play of the year for the 2021 season. Love his addition.
Recent Comments
"I should probably get some iodized salt into the mix before my goiter explodes."
Approximately 1/8 teaspoon of kelp seasoning per day will also meet your iodine requirements.
Pull it down!!!
Pull it down!!!
We did that!!!
WE DID THAT!!!
That airball 3 still haunts my dreams.
Unfortunately Franz had his John Starks moment which ultimately sunk the Magic's ship. But he's just 22 years old. He'll only get better. Orland's future is bright.
"Which former wolverine would you least like to tackle?"
I feel like Chris Floyd would run me over and murder me if I tried to tackle him. One of the toughest FBs Michigan has ever had.
"Nobody since Tyrone Wheatley has turned down the chance to go in the top 10 in the draft to return to school..."
You forgot about Andrew Luck. And I think the Penn State LT Olu Fashanu was projected top 10 last year and still came back. In 35 years of watching college football, those are the only three I recall. So yea obviously an extremely rare phenomenon.
Joel Klatt on Michigan's championship season:
"It's pretty remarkable. I'll say this: I've been around this sport my entire life. My dad was a high school football coach. I've been going to his practices and been around teams since I was two, three years old. So in 38 years now — I'm 42, so in 38, 39 years — that was the most unique team I have ever been around in my entire career.
They were completely unselfish. They were totally unfazed, and they were so specifically focused, more so than any other team that I've been around.
I don't know if there's a secret sauce outside of: They had a group of men that came together for a common cause that was bigger than themselves. And they did it to a degree that I've never seen before."
I smiled. Therefore video approved.
Even if the 2024 defense is better than last year it will look significantly worse statistically. The schedule is tougher and our offense will put the defense in tough spots more often.
The redemption kick!!
Thanks for doing the hard work to trying to find the play Henson's Mobile, but I think you linked one of the videos wrong. They're both linked to the same hit (Thomas vs #10). I actually tried to find the play myself--no longer confident it even existed--but I found it. It occurs at the 1:55:52 mark. The Arrington hit is not as vicious as I remembered (my fuzzy memory had Arrington leaving his feat and spearheading him which obviously did not happen). In fact Thomas laid the wood more than Arrington on that play. Still an epic collision tho.
Edit: NVM your link appears to work now. My bad.
The most obscure highlight I can think of: I only remember it from a live viewing almost 25 years ago. Never seen a replay of it. At this point it feels more like a dream than a memory so I'm not sure how reliable it is. It happened during the Michigan-Penn State 1999 game. Anthony Thomas had the ball and LaVar Arrington spearheaded him in one of the most vicious hits I have ever seen. A truly massive collision between two college football icons. After the play Thomas got up like it was nothing. Arrington stayed on the ground for several minutes. No single play sums up the difference between Michigan football and Penn State football better than that play.
"I am noticing that the OSU number of players drafted are lower."
That's an illusion. tO$U had like 8 top 100 guys they brought back with their strong NIL program. They're going all in this year to beat Michiga and win the national title. Ironically if Michigan barely beats the draft record it will be due to Ohio State's NIL program.
Based on Alex Drain's preview Zinter was ranked #112 so we're ahead of schedule!
"Top 5 wolverine of all time. Change my mind."
He's unequivocally the best nickleback in Michigan history. So anyone making an all-time Michigan team HAS to include him. Pure legend.
Meh shooters gotta shoot.
"2023 Ohio State (This is the most important game in this rivalry history.)"
I agree. Ohio State 2023 was the most important win, but Ohio State 2021 is still the best.
Agree with OP that Ohio State 2021 is Harbaugh's best win. I will always love McNamara but we're talking about a QB that will never make an NFL roster. Finding a way to convincingly beat THAT loaded team with a jag at QB is absolutely his best win.
Yep I'm scared to death of our QB situation. I'm actually hoping Tuttle wins the job and can be our next Rudock. Then we get our cake and eat it too cuz Orji packages will still be a part of our offense. Problem is there's no reason to believe in Tuttle. Dude could never win the starting job at Indiana. Our QB situation is downright frightening to anyone who is willing to be rational about this. I'm hoping for portal magic at this point. Don't see any other choice.
"People love to hate on unions..."
Unions are organs of democracy that give the powerless a way to defend themselves from the powerful. There's only two types of people who hate on unions: the owning class and those brainwashed by the owning class.
Assuming that this is a real problem-- (I'm skeptical cuz other programs have figured it out)--it would still be super easy to get all players to at least be ok with paying big money for a 5* QB. Everyone wants to win and a 5* QB makes everyone look better, even the defense, as a better offense means the defense will be more rested and put in terrible spots less often.
So the idea that paying for an elite QB could cause locker room issues is pure BS. Even a program as cheap as Michigan who doesn't care about winning to the level of Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc should be willing to at least pay top dollar for a QB.
"And what exactly does illegally paying a player look like in today's college football?"
This is an extremely disingenuous thing to say. Our QB room was built in the past. It has only been a little over a month since the NCAA announced it was going to suspend enforcement of NIL pay for play rendering pretty much everything effectively legal.
The top programs in the country have been ignoring the rules for decades. Michigan hasn't. You can look at our pedestrian recruiting over the last 3 historically great years to see that much. Literally the #1 reason Ohio State pulled away from us in the 21st century is cuz they were willing to illegally pay players and we weren't (Tressel/Urban).
Also the number #1 reason Harbaugh had such a hard time recruiting top QBs is cuz it was pretty much established before the beginning of his tenure that you have to illegally pay to get a legit 5* level QB.
Just be happy Ryan Day chose McCord over JJ. It is both remarkable and humbling to acknowledge the fact that IF Ryan Day was juuust smart enough to figure out that a QB who can run and pass is better than a QB who can only pass, Michigan never wins a national title.
Been watching since 1988. Thought about all the times I've been THIS pessimistic about our QB room (excluding covid year). Years that come to mind:
1995: Kids too young and inexperienced. Record 9-4.
2001: After Henson got yanked away. Record 8-4.
2008: Obviously. Record 3-9.
2009: Projected starters are true freshmen. Record 5-7.
2015: It was a scary room before we got Rudock. Record 10-3.
2016: Once Speight Won the job--which implied Okorn wasnt very good--I was bummed. Felt we needed a more dynamic QB to compete for a national championship. Record 10-3
2023: We have virtually zero evidence of having a P5 level passer on this roster. It's downright frightening but this is what can happen when you don't illegally pay players like the Ohio States, Georgias, Bamas, etc. Our only hope as far as I can tell is Tuttle winning the job and being equivalent to McNamara with Orji package sprinkled in.
Adding up the above records we averaged 7.5 wins and 5 losses. Given our brutal schedule 7-5 seems like a very good prediction for this year. And honestly I think it takes a massive amount of kool-aid drinking to expect much more than that.
Cliffs: We just won the natty. Lets relax. There's no point in stressing/worrying about this year when the handwriting is on the wall. No QB + THAT schedule = We're not gonna be that good. Hopes and wishes can't change reality. Find peace. Lower expectations accordingly and enjoy the bumpy ride.
A society based on leisure??!! Nah I'd rather live on a capitalist planet that maximizes profit, destruction, and misery.
So glad we blew out these frauds.
Video is actually very educational. Guy appears to know his stuff.
Championship drought since 1/8 continues
Yep and the Milroe strip was one of the biggest plays of the season.
Sounds like crg hates freedom and probably rainbows too.
We're BACK!!!!@!!!
Has a player for Michigan football ever been illegally compensated? I would bet serious money the answer to that question is yes. Just sheer numbers of people we're talking about over the years. Probability alone makes it a lock it's happened before.
But institutionally we don't do that. That much is obvious. We just went 40-3 over the last 3 years, 3 Big Ten championships, a national championship and we recruit like we're a perennial 8-4 team. Why is that? Cuz we don't illegally pay players. That's the key to getting top 5, top 3, #1 classes. So our relatively weak recruiting classes alone given our historical success is strong circumstantial evidence we don't illegally pay recruits.
And btw I'm not happy about this. No sanctimony here. I want us to illegally pay. I want the top classes. I think the idea that it's "illegal" is a joke. We're talking about rules here created by greedy psychopaths.
So what Harbaugh accomplished when you consider the above...well it literally may be the greatest accomplishment in college football history.
There are what 8 billion people on this planet and I seriously wonder if Harbaugh is the only person who could've pulled off what he did at Michigan. We don't illegally pay players which should cripple us vs big time programs like Ohio State and Bama and yet we go 40-3 and win a national title anyways. Harbaugh truly might be a unicorn.
PF: Juwan
SF:…
C: Webber
PF: Juwan
SF: Rice
SG: Stauskas
PG: Rose
That's a great story man. Hope to meet you someday if you come to vegas. All you gotta do is show up to that tournament and I'll be there. Alot of Michiganders there but only three UofM fans including me. Sounds like you and your dad were really close. Time flies so fast. Hope you are holding up well on the anniversary.
Any time you guys come to vegas come to our euchre tournament. Thursdays at 7:30. Fun times. Go to vegaseuchre.com for details. My pic is on the front page. I look very intimidating!
This!!!
I remember talking to my dad before the 21 game. We've been watching Michigan football games together since 1988. I told him I think we have 20% equity which sounds bad but this is our best chance in years. I did not feel good about our team's chances in 17, 18 and 19 (yes even in 18 when we were a 4 pt fav).
I'll be honest about 2022. I was very pessimistic going into that game. I was just hoping we wouldn't get blown out. Keep the game reasonably close to maximize our playoff chances in a loss. Never been happier in my sports life after that game.
It's really disturbing how delusional people are around here. We had a great 3 year run, but thats over now. We lost 6 linemen and our goat QB. Ohio State is loaded everywhere. Theyre at home. If I had to set the line I'd be Ohio State -14.5 so yea I'm surprised it's only 7. There should be zero confidence about that game. Again we had a great run, but it's Ohio State's turn now. That's the way it goes. It's sports.
The less the starters play the less likely they'll get injured right? Fairly simple conclusion we'd all agree with. Given all the games the starters got to rest on the sidelines in the 2nd half I think it's safe to assume that contributed to our overall good injury luck (which was good overall despite the key loss of Zinter).
We can be one of the 12 best teams and NOT get in. In fact that's a fairly likely scenario. New QB plus arguably the toughest schedule Michigan has ever played = 3 losses minimum, and 3 losses will usually be all it takes to be eliminated.
PS: Yes we will have a great defense, but that's just one variable.
With last year's schedule we'd be guaranteed to make the playoffs this year. With this year's schedule we are literally eliminated from the playoffs before the season begins except for the slim hope a 9-3 team gets in. So yea, OPs point if anything is a massive understatement.
Still will cheer hard for this team but anyone who thinks we're going to the playoffs with a new QB--who doesn't track to be very good--plus THAT schedule is pretty delusional.
Anybody that makes an all-time Michigan team has to have Sainristil at nickleback. Pure legend.
Hawkins is a pure winner. Will never forget his strip/fumble recovery in the Nebraska game that probably saved our season and enabled this program to break the Big Ten championship drought. That will always get my vote as play of the year for the 2021 season. Love his addition.
Donated $100