Was Greg Roman the real key to Harbaugh's success?
This is a theory I've been kicking around in my head, and why not roll it out in the barrage of post-loss shitposts. So here's the logic ...
Stanford took off when Roman was added. Now obviously Luck's timeline makes it seem like he would be the obvious reason for improvement, but the run game thrived under Roman. But maybe David Shaw or Pep Hamilton were the brains, right?
Fast forward to Harbaugh going to the 49ers. He chose to take Roman to San Fran as his OC, not Shaw.
Now on to Michigan. Harbaugh tries to run a lot of Stanford/49er looking stuff, but it isn't quite executed correctly and doesn't all fit together like it did at those spots. It's just kind of random plays from that mold that don't really build from one play to the next. Harbaugh eventually brings in Pep, one of the alleged brains of the Stanford rise. It still looks discombobulated. And don't forget Drevno as well.
Meanwhile Roman moves on to the Bills and constructs the #1 rushing offense and #12 scoring offense with Tyrod Taylor at QB.
Where is Roman now? He's the architect of the Lamar Jackson Ravens offense that set the league on fire last year and continues to be very good this year. You can see a lot of similarities to the Kaep/49ers and Luck/Stanford offenses.
The other guys have all failed for the most part. Harbaugh this year, Shaw last year, Drevno failing at Michigan, Pep failing at a bunch of places. It seems like the farther they get from the Roman years, the worse they get.
In closing, here's an old article I found with some actual data of Harbaugh pre/post Roman: https://blackandteal.com/2013/01/10/the-greg-roman-effect/
November 15th, 2020 at 1:09 AM ^
You definitely make a lot of good points. If I remember correctly, when Harbaugh first came to Michigan, fans didn't want Roman to come along as well. In hindsight, he wouldn't have been any worse than what we've had and likely would have been better.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:15 AM ^
Like I said, this is just a theory, but if Roman really was the brain behind the Stanford/Luck offense, 49ers/Kaep offense, Lamar/Ravens offense, with a successful Tyrod Taylor offense mixed in ... I can't think of many coordinators I'd rather have over him ... in NFL or college.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:46 AM ^
Roman has a track record of being great in year 1/early on, starting to get figured out in year 2 and making no adjustments, and then having the fans grabbing their torches and pitchforks by year 3 ready to run him out of town. Ravens fans are NOT pleased with him already this year and Lamar has gone on record recently saying how opposing defenses are calling out the plays they are about to run. Not good, and also seems like a problem Michigan has had under Harbaugh with stubborn, predictable play-calling.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:51 AM ^
I’m not sure about that. I think it would’ve been an extremely similar beginning. People forget that Jedd Fisch was a legitimately good offensive coordinator and I’m guessing Roman also would’ve left to move up in the football world. Harbaugh’s issues have been the replacements, not the starting man.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:15 AM ^
Hire Roman?
November 15th, 2020 at 1:19 AM ^
The irony is that most of the blog wanted Harbaugh but didn't want him to bring Roman. In retrospect, maybe we should have wanted Roman to come without Harbaugh.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:22 AM ^
The answer to your question is Yes, coupled with the other thread currently on the Board on revolving coordinators and lack of a coherent offensive philosophy and identity. Add on top of that piss poor coaching and lack of ability to energeize and inspire your players, and you see where we are.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:28 AM ^
Honestly, I kinda miss Jedd.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:30 AM ^
That has been speculated a number of times here and makes sense.
Would Roman come to UM?
November 15th, 2020 at 1:35 AM ^
I don't think it is that easy. I think in the NFL JH benefitted from having Kaep right when the league started to use read-option and it wasn't good at defending it yet. Just like Roman last year with Lamar. He did a lot of new things that made defenses look stupid, but those new concepts are being defended better this year.
But also, if Alex Smith never got hurt, I doubt Kaep ever sees the field. JH was perfectly content with Alex Smith not turning the ball over and winning with his defense and Gore.
With all that being said, I think that Roman is able to come up with cohesive new concepts.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:53 AM ^
Kap wasn't that good, and frankly Harbaugh made a mistake hitching his franchise to him when Alex had finally reached his professional potential. I have little doubt that Smith could have taken the team to reach the SB the year Harbaugh fell in love with the new toy, as he would have the season before if Kyle Williams could field a punt.
But there seems to be a pattern of our QB guru making questionable choices with whom to play at QB.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:57 AM ^
Problem with this is what happens when opposing DC's figure Roman out. The decline is steep and Roman can't adjust. See 2020 Ravens.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:06 AM ^
Roman is a very average coordinator who has an Al Borges effect on teams...basically he gets figured out in no time.
This is happening this year with the ravens. In fact, Lamar Jackson was just saying that defenses know their plays at the huddle already.
November 15th, 2020 at 3:33 AM ^
Michigan's problem is that they don't seem to have practiced what they are trying to do in game. If Greg Roman was the guy who made them practice, then sure, that was the reason.
November 15th, 2020 at 3:42 AM ^
A few posters have made the comment that Roman gets figured out after a couple years. That may be true, but my point was not to pitch to hire Roman. I'm wondering if Harbaugh was ever the brains behind any his success.
A lot of people mention that he lost his fire and that's why he's declined, but maybe he never had anything to decline from. Maybe he rode Luck/Roman to success at Stanford and had Roman/Fangio running the offense and defense in San Francisco. It would make sense why Michigan has never been able to even slightly resemble what he had at Stanford/SF. It's like we got coaching catfished.
November 15th, 2020 at 6:04 AM ^
Then Roman for HC
November 15th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
The question I want answered is why were Hoke’s best years with the RR players and Harbaugh’s best with the Hoke players.
Was it a honeymoon phase where the upperclassmen simply worked harder for a new regime or are the players losing their drive when they discover the coaches are lacking?
November 15th, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
I think it might just be that grace period where your opponents have no game film or historical data on what your team will be doing. If you can't innovate, you get figured out. Hoke and Harbaugh didn't successfully innovate at all. On top of that, you're inheriting several years of consecutive recruiting cycles by the previous regime.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
Roman sucks too
November 15th, 2020 at 10:36 AM ^
Again, I'm not petitioning to hire Roman. I'm asking if the innovative "Harbaugh Offense" was even ever his doing. With what Roman has done since Stanford, and with what Harbaugh has done since he split from Roman, it's really starting to look like Harbaugh was never the brains behind anything.
On top of that Fangio was his DC, and he's proven to be one of the best defensive minds in the NFL. What exactly can we say that Harbaugh actually did? Quarterback whisperer? That obviously hasn't shown up in his tenure at UM.
Thankfully, he was on such a media pedestal because of "his" success at San Francisco, coupled with his fame bc of his sideline eccentricities, we were at least able to get some decent recruiting classes out of it all.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:01 PM ^
So I'm your OP you post a "what if?" But at this point you've decided your theory is fact. The architect off the Stanford offense was the OL coach the last two years of Harbaugh and want there the first two years when the turnaround was happening? Same with the Ravens, he was the OL coach with the Ravens as their offense took off with Jackson after being fired by three Bills.
You're whole thesis is full of logic holes and deceptive at best.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:42 PM ^
I'm not sure you've done your research. He was the run game coordinator for Stanford -- the run game that got Toby Gearhart paid. He was then Harbaugh's choice to join him and be his OC on the 49ers instead of Shaw/Pep. He was fired from the Bills by a hot headed Rex Ryan after an emotional loss to his former team (Jets) in week 2 of the season. A move that ended up being a mistake, and Roman was clearly a scapegoat for Ryan's inadequate coaching. He went on to become OL coach for the Ravens, and then designed the offense they currently run when he was promoted to OC.
From Wiki:
"In 2017, the Ravens (coached by Jim Harbaugh's brother John) hired Roman as a senior offensive assistant and tight ends coach; in 2018 he was promoted to assistant head coach and tight ends coach. In 2019, the Ravens opted to completely revamp the offense and the then offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg decided to retire. Roman, who had coached Colin Kaepernick at San Francisco was promoted to offensive coordinator and tasked with the development of a new, dynamic offense. This new offense would be a combination of his experiences as a tight ends coach and the knowledge he had gained from reading hundreds of football books centered on the Ravens new quarterback, Lamar Jackson and running back Mark Ingram. In Roman's first full season in charge of the Ravens' offense, after 12 games, the team averaged 33.8 points per game; best in the NFL."