August 31st, 2022 at 10:18 PM ^
Part of me really enjoys the Big 10 sticking it to the SEC and becoming a coast to coast behemoth. The colossus of college athletics.
But the other part of me? Whatever this is or will become is not the Big 10. It's an NFL conference. And the NFL is soulless corporate America with rapacious owners and mercenary players. So much of what made college football great is getting crushed by greed.
Get off my lawn.
August 31st, 2022 at 10:32 PM ^
Everything you say is true. And there is nothing wrong with sentimentality.
August 31st, 2022 at 10:57 PM ^
I'd like to see them get to enough teams where the divisions resemble old conferences (Big 10, Pac, ACC, Big 12) and the footprint includes every major market in the country. Work out a deal with the bowl games to do Seth's idea for a showcase. Make it as close to pre-BCS CFB with a focus on academics and revenue sharing for players.
September 1st, 2022 at 5:51 AM ^
Ronnie, I mostly agree. However, this slippery slope has been an issue for a while.
Just look at recruiting and “talent acquisition”. Harbaugh held camps in the southeast - the SEC / ACC complained - the NCAA capitulated. The ACC is little more than the SEC lap dog. This decision to limit where / how schools could recruit directly impacts Michigan - AND - limits opportunities for high school prospects in that part of the country. One of many NCAA failures.
Eff the SEC. Surround them. And, when Saban retires - perhaps we’ll see a slight move to the mean.
It makes me think- since the Supreme Court opened the door to NIL - maybe certain other precedents can be challenged too.
September 1st, 2022 at 6:09 AM ^
It feels like we're hurtling toward an AFC-NFC type setup where the Big Ten and SEC will be the dominant two football leagues and will hold their own championship or at least one where the CFP is made up almost entirely of the two leagues
September 1st, 2022 at 7:44 AM ^
Sadly I think that ship has already left port, need to make the best of it now.
September 1st, 2022 at 9:23 AM ^
Which means leaving the golden domers on an island imho
September 1st, 2022 at 9:48 AM ^
I think it's inevitable that the Big Ten and SEC take over college football, essentially creating another top division. At that point, I think there will be too many teams to have just 2 conferences, so we'll see divisions form that resemble the original conferences. So my view is basically, let's get this over with so we can get back to regional conferences sooner.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:24 PM ^
So trying to add 5 teams. In case UCLA is blocked?
August 31st, 2022 at 8:35 PM ^
Wouldn't hurt, but if ND is coming in the bargain it makes Stanford & Cal worth it. UW & UO are self-supporting at least.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:33 PM ^
I think ND is sitting tight for now. Of course, things can change quickly, but I wouldn’t expect any movement there for at least a few months.
August 31st, 2022 at 11:12 PM ^
To Hell with Notre Dame.
Original, I know. But, the sentiment fits.
September 1st, 2022 at 5:45 AM ^
It’s never a bad day to say that…
September 1st, 2022 at 8:39 AM ^
If Stanford ends up in the B10, the commissioner lets ND know that they will not be scheduling games with any B10 teams unless they join the conf...
That takes away all their rivalry's and leaves them with a schedule of ACC teams, Army and Navy.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:38 PM ^
That's the only way it makes sense.
Otherwise it's got to be Notre Dame, Washington, Oregon...and
Stanford, Pitt, UVA, UNC, BC, maybe Cal, I've heard Colorado, Utah and GT as teams that deserve a look, but you won't get past that first four (Stanford, Pitt, UVA, UNC) to find a 4th team.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^
When did Pitt's profile spike? I've never seen them listed as a desirable expansion choice. Same with BC.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:20 PM ^
74 - Pitt’s a solid school, academically - but, like you - I don’t think they are a “higher priority” (if I can use that term,
Though Pitt is may be a bit stronger than PSU academically - PennState brings in the media markets of the state - because of their size - and “reach” to both Philly and Pittsburgh.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:46 PM ^
I can’t see the Regents of the UC system blocking UCLA and allowing Cal. A package deal might be what the Regents really want - both schools - or neither.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:33 PM ^
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, and Cal? Or is Utah one of the 4?
August 31st, 2022 at 8:44 PM ^
Cal is definitely a stronger academic fit - more tradition, history, etc. I think they’re a stronger logical fit than Utah.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^
I'm in the SF Bay Area. Stanford is a bigger sports market here than Cal. I am thinking Utah because it would carry that area of the United States. But also, Utah has better football than Cal. But yeah, I'm not expecting Utah is one of the 4. It's probably Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Cal.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:14 PM ^
Ezekiel - thanks for your perspective. My sister’s in the Bay Area - and, whenever I’ve visited - I definitely have gotten the same vibe. Stanford’s consistent performance in “College Cup” - is just one aspect of it.
I have a question for you? What is your impression of Pac football attendance? I’m referring to people who actually go to the games - paying for tickets. My view is - certain rivalry games sell out - in California. Washington and Oregon sell out most, if not all, of the time.
September 1st, 2022 at 1:38 AM ^
I’m in SoCal in Orange County, about 45 minutes south of LA. I’ve been a season ticket holder to UM since ‘92 so I wanted to check out the USC vs UCLA game for comparison. This was a few years ago in ‘16 when both programs were down but the Rose Bowl was not full. It wasn’t half empty but likely 80-85% or so to capacity.
If you think the Big House looks red when OSU comes to town, you should see the Rose Bowl when they play USC. As for regular game attendance, if the rivalry with UCLA/USC doesn’t get a full stadium I can only assume it’s always got some empty sections towards the top.
September 1st, 2022 at 5:57 AM ^
I looked through some attendance figures for PAC teams in te last year, or so. The big rivalries - essentially - “cross town” - will do well. Put UCLA vs USC, Stanford vs Cal - but, for the Cali schools - few other conference games draw that well.
September 1st, 2022 at 9:42 PM ^
I couldn't speak for the whole Pac12. But as for Cal, sports are not the same as out east. Sports aren't as important. There is no living and dying with your team. But I've noticed there's some Oakland A's and Raiders fans who are like that--maybe too much like that.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:58 PM ^
I'd take those first 4 schools and call it a day if I were the Big Ten honchos. Excellent academics and sports history.
September 1st, 2022 at 8:18 AM ^
One last point on the academics. Looking at the world rankings of universities, we have:
2 - Stanford
5 - Cal (Berkley)
14 - UCLA
19 - Washington
26 - Michigan
31 - Wisconsin
34 - Northwestern
61 - USC
101-150 MSU, OSU
301-400 Oregon University of Phil Knight, ND (as in "To Hell With ...")
I like the notion that we are adding 4 of the top 20 universities in the world to our little club.
September 1st, 2022 at 10:31 AM ^
I don’t want Oregon. They just buy their way into everything.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:32 PM ^
I don't understand the reasoning for Cal. At all.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:34 PM ^
Yeah you do. You just don’t agree with it. I happen to be on your side.
August 31st, 2022 at 10:21 PM ^
For the same reason I wouldn't want Cornell or Yale in the B1G. It's not about academics. Sports drives the train. Cal just doesn't add anything. All the other schools being considered, yes.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:42 PM ^
Stanford and UCLA want Cal to be included. You have to look at it holistically. They are part of an overall package that is very appealing, even if they don't stand out much on their own.
They probably won't get a full share of Big Ten revenues for a while though. USC and UCLA get a full share right away.
There is some academic prestige there as well. The Big Ten is mostly large state schools and Cal is at the top of the academic food chain for large state schools, as is UCLA.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:44 PM ^
Dog, if you look at Public University academic rankings - the Top Three - consistently are - Michigan, Cal, and UCLA - in any given order.
September 1st, 2022 at 7:59 AM ^
Academics are there, which I am in favor of, so if the state of California require that we take the athletic kid brother of USC, UCLA, and Stanford to get the other three in, I'm OK with that. In the long run, the greater benefit to the B1G is served by having the greatest collection of academic institutions in the world. College sports has too much money at stake to be a stable feature in the world of higher education, but academic prowess is the gift that keeps on giving.
BTW, Nebraska says 'Hi, I are smart now!'.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:42 PM ^
Someone - who I would define as a “sports writer trying to get attention” - wrote that the Bucks might object to additional conference expansion - and, that they were the most significant vote in the B1G. I find this as being more than a bit “out there”.
I’m unsure if the vote to admit a new member needs to be unanimous, or not.
The scenario going through my mind is…add four more PAC schools - Stanford, Oregon, Washington, and Cal. And, if there’s movement to an agreement with ND - maybe Nebraska can be persuaded to be the leading team in the Big 12 and switch conferences.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:47 PM ^
Someone getting booted …. Curious who.
August 31st, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^
Why? The Big Ten was at 11 schools for over a decade. Divisions are being removed anyway, so 21 isn't any different than 20.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:23 PM ^
Nobody is getting booted from the Big Ten.
September 1st, 2022 at 6:16 AM ^
Dog - what I would hope for is - The Big 12 makes Nebraska “an offer they can’t refuse”.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:07 PM ^
Great. Just keep adding teams. Let’s be the Big 70 conference. Blah.
And yes, I know. Get off my lawn.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:28 PM ^
I read that at this point only the addition of Notre Dame would be expected to increase the annual conference payout to each Big Ten school (i.e., Oregon and Washington wouldn’t make sense from a revenue perspective). I found that surprising, but does anyone know if it’s accurate?
There are of course other reasons to add more schools, or maybe the Big Ten anticipates WA and OR would become money makers over the long term, even if not immediately.
September 1st, 2022 at 6:29 AM ^
Attaché - it seems there are two points..
First, the media payout per team. Second - impact on cash flow - and essential the Balance Sheet - positive or negative.
IMO Oregon and Washington would draw viewership / media markets. ND would draw a more “national” audience - lower density in any single city - but, in the aggregate - the numbers are probably there,
.The challenge is - per school payout. The B1G - both traditionally - and through expansion - ha# a solid following. With the current media markets - NY/NJ and now Southern California - you have the two largest markets in the country - add Chicago - and you now have three. It’s just “averages” - an6 team that’s added won’t bring as much “additional” media money as the current agreement.
But, this is one case when there is something more important than money. That “something” - is really presence - leadership - association. It is something as simple as “global domination”. The B1G has a plan - and - the plan is simple - THE College Athletics conference. Strong academics with strong athletics.
In the SEC football rules everything - It just does. The B1G is working a long strategy. It will be interesting to see it play out.
September 1st, 2022 at 7:32 AM ^
I've posted several times that how schools CAN grow, in viewership and popularity, must be taken into view along with the (limited) sense of where they stand, how attractive they are at this point in time. Case in point--some of the ridiculous past football games between Stanford and Cal. Audiences can and will fluctuate, and with population growth and interest, grow.
WE are all going to be watching the West Coast teams with new interest, right?
September 1st, 2022 at 8:36 AM ^
It's like you're trying real hard to set your smart but ugly sister (Cal) up with the popular guy in school.
September 1st, 2022 at 10:02 AM ^
no, it's more like you always invite your smart but ugly sister to go to parties with you because, well, she's your sister.
September 2nd, 2022 at 10:23 AM ^
As someone who lived in Seattle for eight years, I can assure you -- adding UW does not "draw [a] media market," and that goes x50 for Oregon.
College sports are not part of the fabric of west coast culture. They never have been. People simply do not care. Yes, some fans exist, but if you listen to them and think they're a representative sample, you're making a mistake.
It isn't like life in the midwest.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:30 PM ^
Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal . . . this had to be in the works all along in some form.
It is insane and unsustainable to have USC and UCLA be a two-program island in the Pacific Time Zone within the Big Ten, especially for sports that play multiple games a week.
Having six Pacific Time Zone programs creates a self-contained "division" that can play many of its games among its own teams.
Bringing on Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal has to viewed as part of the cost of bringing in USC and UCLA. It is not a stand-alone decision.
August 31st, 2022 at 9:44 PM ^
If the future holds a six-team Pacific division, here's one way I can imagine non-revenue sports teams getting together: Carefully choose a few days (long weekend, maybe more) where everyone (Midwest, West Coast) gathers in Omaha and plays a bunch of games. A mini-tournament, maybe. That way, there wouldn't need to be any traveling from LA to NYC / DC.