I hate my life.
UM-MSU Snowflakes Thread
At least we weren't at home...
One: MSU easily played their best game of the year - they earned it tonight.
Two: No conference allows as much hand checking and bumping as the Big Ten (except the ACC's allowance for Duke). The tournament will open up some space.
Three: This team is playing game 4 of an obscene 4-game stretch. This team looked tired. Go lose at Wisconsin 3 days ago the way these kids did and see how you show up at your next game - on the road.
Four: No team in the conference has had a stretch like this. State has near the equivalent with 2 at home and 2 away. If they're better than 2-2 in that stretch, they'll have deserved the regular season crown.
Five: all the big ones are at home the rest of the way out - and there's only 2. And the next 3 games are cake-tastic; a change to get healthy.
They'll sweep their way to the finale against Indiana for a chance to share the crown. That one I'm not predicting. And Belien is tough to prepare for - we are not the most upsetable team in the country. Barring injury, I still expect a very good March
Defines the "problem" with this squad. I can tell you how I hoped they would respond. I can tell you how team with a championship mentality would respond. vWith toughness, determination and a sense of urgency. With a better understanding of just how important every possession is in these big road games.
You can let that Wisconsin game beat you twice or you can use it as a valuable teaching moment.
Let this be a learning experience for them. They'll evaluate how they handled this stretch and find ways to better handle it next time. Frustrating as hell to lose to our in-state rival, but at the end of the year no one cares who won the B1G. This isn't football: there is a real post-season. If we learn from this gauntlet experience and improve for the big dance, then we're better for it. If not, ehhh not so much.
Always remember: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
What I wouldn't give to still have Stu and Novak on the team. The Wolverines lack leadership and the on-court smarts of experience. I just don't get the sense that Burke or Hardaway understand how to steady a game when things begin to spin out of control. I have no doubt that the freshmen are mentally worn out after this stretch which means they must rely even more on Hardaway and Burke to keep the game broken down into pieces they can handle, instead within the first few minutes they looked helpless against an avalanche they saw rolling their way.
My biggest hope is that this drubbing embarrasses and pisses them off enough that they figure out, like I posted previously, how to play with a "get-the-fuck-off-my-court" attitude. More than anything, that's what State brought tonight.
tell Red to get the hockey team out of the MBB team locker room.
When it got tough, they quit. No fight tonight.
I didn't realize Lloyd Carr was with Hoke at the game. Makes it worse, somehow.
No heart? I'm all heart motherfucker!
David Brandon needs to have a chat with JB... Uneccaptable to loose to ur rival like this, taking Burke out was like when MSU took out Denard in football.. Take out the main players and we are done, shit our pants
This is 100% true and infuriates me. The whole program got embarrassed tonight. I wanted to believe this game would be different but I should have been honest with myself. Against a physical, athletic team that gives max effort with the best Coach in the country, we had no chance.
If you've ever been to an Izzo practice and compared it to Beileins these outcomes would not surprise you.
There is a HUGE difference in intensity and that carries over to the games. Our intensity the past few years was player driven and those players are gone.
Don't get me wrong, I love Beilein and these players may grow into great competitors, but they aren't right now and so we'll cower in the corner while the more intense teams pound us.
I hate to say it but it is not a coincidence that OSU, MSU, Wisconsin and IU all had great games against us. They play harder and we're terrible on defense.
If Izzo or Coach K had our players I have no doubt that we'd be a lockdown defensive unit. We are not too small to accomplish that. These players just have to care more. Until then, we'll be a talented team who wins every game except games against teams that play defense. Defense gives us the heebie jeebies
What i dont get is that when osu and msu play us, its like their fuckin championship game they give all they have, we play just like its another game, both BB and FB.. WTf there is no more hate from our side anymore, i dont know if its the coaches or the players.
was outcoached in the last two games. The offense has been terrible, it's the same pick and roll play 90% of the time and if that doesn't work the ball just gets flung around the arc until someone jacks up a shot. Movement toward the basket, both with and without the ball is nearly non-existent. Thus we draw no fouls and we can't score for shit unless we're scorching from the 3pt line. I can't understand how Beilein is unable to get this group to score.
On defense, well, I think the problem is more systemic. Beilein's 3-heavy system depends on a four who can shoot threes. Unfortunately, three-point shooting and rebounding are not commonly found in the same player (praise be Novak). To over come that you need either (1) a dominate 5 to control the boards; or (2) a lot of hustle and gang rebounding by perimeter players. Lately, we've got neither. The lack of shot blocking makes on-ball defense of the upmost importance, although I don't see anything in Beilein's system that would tend to a lack of shot-blocking, except maybe hesitancy to foul. The on-ball defense has been horrible, but that's completely on the players, not the system.
I'm not sure it's fair to blame the problem on the team being a "finesse" team on offense, since you can have a "finesse", which I suppose means non-post based, offense without having horrible on ball defenders. Both the Heat and Spurs run what would be considered a finesse offense, but their defenses are very good. But notice that the forwards on those teams, namely Kawahi Leonard and LeBron, are good rebounders. Our forwards, GRIII and Stauskas, are pretty shit rebounders (but good 3pt shooters) and I think that's part of the problem. The other part is just lazy on ball defense.
The offense is what is so frustrating to me. It's like you said they're either doing a 3 man weave on the perimeter or pick and roll on the perimeter. Do not they not have any set plays to free someone up? No one is moving without the ball. They rarely if ever throw the ball into the low post. For a coach that is supposed to be really good with the x and o's, you'd think he'd come up with a few tweaks here and there over this tough stretch.
I don't know if I'd call them a "finesse" team. I think of them more as a team that likes to get out and run, led by a PG who can fly and makes good decisions in transition. Slow them down with a physical, in your shorts type defense though and they grind to a halt. I don't understand this though since JB is known for his offense. It's as if he threw all of those concepts out the window when he saw what Morris could do with a pick and roll. I don't know if that's on Burke, if the freshmen have yet to grasp what has been described as a difficult to learn offense or what. This team cannot seem to think beyond one pass and from what I know of the offense that JB brought to Ann Arbor it was about multiple decisions on each pass, depending on what action they got from the defense. I don't see them thinking the game like this at all.
No shouting or suicide drills. Just make the point that until you stop being so soft , your name is not going on a UM jersey. Kicking PSU's butt doesn't count either. Beilein must in his own way get these boys to grow up.
And does anyone think Hardaway is ready for the pros?
I love the taking the names off the jersey idea. This was an embarrassment and they need to fully understand that.
Let's lick our wounds and get back at it. Nothing like Penn st. to get ya back on track. MSU took the first of four at home, the season isn't over yet.
We played worse than the refs tonight. The refs would have been an excuse if the game was single didgets. What happend to our awesome offensive plays and back door cuts. It's almost as if Johnny B has assumed now that he has talent he can get away with stagnet offense
Hey on the bright side it can only go up from here
KenPom was a little off tonight.
It's probably no coincidence that at least right now the top 3 teams in the conference standings (IU, MSU and Wisky) have the 3 biggest road wins in conference play - IU in Columbus, Wisky in Bloomington and Sparty in Madison.
If we're playing this poorly at NCAA time, we're going to need a fortunate draw to make it out of the first weekend. I wouldn't put a nickel on this team right now.
going to call into WTKA this morning? Tell me when so I can turn it to 97.1.
Anyone still feel the need to argue with me about this team not being on the Fab Five's level? I knew people here were highly overrating them on here when they thought this team would even stand a chance.
Feel bad for the team regardless. MSU played one of their best games in a long time and Michigan played terrible.
If MSU could beat us up on the inside like that, what would the Fab Five have done?
The perfect night for the serenity now episode of Seinfeld.
I was at the game in the middle of the inbreds. Don't give up yet on this team, still a lot of Big Ten Season and Tourney time left to bounce back from a 2 game meltdown.
- Team didn't win a single loose ball tonight. The 10 day stretch obviously had them on fumes tonight
- Played the tough stretch with their most experienced big man barely able to contribute. Love him or hate him, we all knew they needed JM against MSU's inside game
- Whine much? I know I do. But the first 4 minutes of the 2nd half, the whistle took this game from a 10 point game to a 20 point game very quickly with Burke's terrible 3rd foul call (is that a foul on Nix every time he puts a 'gentle' shoulder into a defender to move him?) and Payne landing on Stauskas on the pump fake. I have always believed 2 or 3 bad calls, timed right, can change a close game into a blowout.
- In a world where UM, MSU, Ind, OSU, Wisky, and Minn don't lose at home and beat everyone else, UM and MSU are still on pace for 4 B1G losses and another shared title.
More like deathflakes.
The only thing I take away from this game is I watched in Phuket, Thailand and my sling box connection was awful so I missed big chunks of the game. Even that crap game couldn't ruin the beauty of this place.
College basketball can be impacted by player emotion and state had a lot more. That is disappointing. I still expect great things from the team this year. I don't have an analysis as to why but I think Robinson gets a second wind and the coaches come up with the right adjustments. Or maybe too much sun is messing with my logic.
at Axe Body Spray Arena
I really think that this 2 week stretch was the worst possible way the schedule could have played out. For a young team looking to build/maintain confidence, the fact that they were on the road for 3/4 with the middle game a killer against OSU meant there was no breather, no time to recover, etc. Now the onslaught is over, however I think their confidence has been affected in a way that a more spread out schedule would not have caused.
It's not an excuse, the B1G schedulers weren't trying to screw anybody, just bad luck imo
Hope our HR rep doesn't care if I have to resort to punching a Sparty in the face this morning for their big mouths.
As a HR Generalist, I'd let it slide today. I'm tempted to encourage it but I like my job too much! Hail
Wait, so are we complaining that the coach that we stole from west Virginia can't coach defense, struggles against top competition and has a team that appears to fall apart in the heart of the B10 schedule?
At least we didn't wear alternate uniforms? #snowflake
Stu and Zack
tipoff last night and I'm still in shock. That was one of the most embarrassing games in 20 years for UM simply because there was zero effort or fight by us.
I couldn't care less that Sparty won big as our shooting was dreadful while they were hot - that happens.
It's our lack of toughness. Things don't go right and this team just goes into a shell.
The thing about Stu and Zack (see post below) is that they had to fight for every scrap. These freshmen got lots of media attention early and often, with talk of some of them going pro (including non-freshmen Burke and THJ) after this season. That could be why they lack fight. Too much ego and everything coming too easily, too soon. Not enough adversity. My hope is that the lessons can be learned at this point, and that Belein is good at those kind of lessons.
Here is the in-conference data for box score stats for road wins versus road losses:
|STATISTIC||ROAD WIN||ROAD LOSS||Differential|
|POINTS PER GAME||83.7||60.0||-28.3%|
Here is the defensive efficiency of our road oppoenents in the conference:
This was mentioned in the thread over the weekend where someone talked about Robinson's in-game performance on the road, but you'll note that the team as a whole, against tougher defenses, can't seem to get the rhythm that they need and are considerably more tentative and less opportunistic. That being said, we would sit a few spots below Minnesota on the second chart, so really, the key in my opinion is to simply keep working on getting defensive rebounds, driving in and not trying to rely on the three-point shot, and being a little more selective about the shots they do make in these situations against tougher defenses. I also think it is experience for this team and that it will definitely moderate and improve with time in the system.
If a team can keep Burke from driving and dishing, well, there goes the whole offense. Been the biggest supporter of Beilein in past, but rather than particular players having off nights, or certain flaws in particular games, this "softer" euro style is seeming more and more like a larger fundamental flaw.
We dominate teams with less-athletic guards when Burke can penetrate and our "smooth as vanilla" 3 pt game can click uncontested. We totally unravel against decent defense when Burke can't penetrate because we can't pound, rebound and grind in a way that the big ten demands from a conference champion. NCAA tourney will be a breath of fresh air for offense. Need to get tougher.