Whoa, way too early. Probably won't win, but this has got to be a record.
UM-MSU Snowflakes Thread
You just know. Take your ass kicking and move on.
Then continue to watch the game.
It's not too early.
And it saves 20 of these popping up in the first five minutes after.
These threads shouldn't start while a game is in progress. There's a lot to be said for not starting them until the next day.
Can't say I blame Craig James for killing five hookers if he ever had to watch a game like that one.
has been off for over 45 minutes... I guess this means no comeback. We just weren't ON tonight.
that I watched Chronicles of Riddick instead of that mess of a game.
NCAA tourney games are neutral sites
has played like this at home too... We really need to do work if we want to be elite.
I agree that he's been way off recently but when has he not played well at home?
Ride that one as long as you want. We are getting worked right now fair and square.
Belien has not done his job in the past few games. Piss-poor substitutions and inability to coach a lick of defense.
Coach B is not the one playing soft out there! These kids just don't have the guts to play these big games right now. We NEVER looked comfortable this game.
Who's job is it to have the team ready to play? Whose job is it to have contingencies in case the team has difficulties? These losses are on B.
five freshman...sometimes it takes time for toughness to be earned...you know, through games like this.
Lets not forget that coach b has led us to a 21-3 record coming into this game. Fwiw..I don't know if anybody would beat state tonight as well as they've played. Our 4 losses have been on the road in the big ten..at arguably the 4 toughest places to win in the conference. Lets not get into freak out mode until we lose to all of these teams at home.
Remember..it was only 6..six..SIX!..days ago when we beat osu in ot and everyone talked about how well coached and complete this team was. To my knowledge we haven't lost anything from that team.
A complete and thurough ass-kicking maybe exactly what this team needs. Jesus this is embarassing.
I had the sane thought. Our team looked unbeatable for much of the season, but since achieving the #1 ranking, we have been a mess. I see it as a combination of several of the following potential factors:
1. Lack of confidence - it seems like since we lost some of these big games, the team has lost its mojo - they don't seem to have the same swagger. This needs to be fixed asap, as teams that lack confidence don't tend to go far.
2. Youth - we are playing many true freshmen - several are starting or playing critical minutes. these kids have experienced nothing but success so far, so the las of confidence may be even greater for them.
3. Fatigue - this stretch of schedule has been brutal and physical. Could be that some of our guys are fatigued. Look at GRIII, who has dropped off the most - he has been battling guys larger and stonger since Morgan went down, and it looks o be taking its toll.
4. Jordan Morgan - we are really missing him and his inside presence. McGary is bigger and stronger with a higher ceiling, but Morgan is a critical piece.
5. Defense - this one is obvious. We did well for much of the season relying on our shooters, but there are times when you need to get a big stop, especially against better teams. Until we improve this area of our game, I am not confident going into the tourney.
I'd like to at least see GRIII find himself during this game.
Snowflakes? Gonna be a damn blizzard after tonight's game
I'm getting tired of watching teams with big men casually rebound and score, rebound and score, rebound and score, rebound and score, rebound and score, rebound and score while 3 guys not named jordan morgan hover around with vacant expressions on their faces
We are the most upset-able top 5 team in the country
To be fair, we're no longer a top 5 team.
Football is getting commits again. Oh, and did everyone hear, Kate Upton is on the swimsuit cover of SI
My opinion of the game is that it’s very fair to start questioning what Belein is doing to get these guys ready. The team is getting worse every week. Nobody has improved other than McGary, and he was awful tonight. The offense has become completely one-dimensional, the defensive effort is just embarrassing at times, and there is absolutely no mental toughness on the road against decent teams, especially from the freshman. How many top 30 recruits consistently fail to show up for games and throw the ball right at the other team multiple times? Novak and Douglass were guys nobody wanted, and they competed well against State. This team is talented, but they look SOFT and stupid in big moments, which is a bad combo. In addition, Belein’s substitutions have been very questionable. Spike, Levert, and McGary on the floor at the same time is a disaster, and I’m not sure how the coaches don’t see that. This is not a top five team right now. It’s barely a top 15 team right now.
That about sums it up. Our big men do not have much offensive ability, as well. I love Mitch, but he is almost certain to drop a pass when pressured underneath. At least he flies around. I can't think of another player showing reckless passion out there. I also agree that the substitutions tonight have been awful. Do we have an offense other than passing around the horn and taking a three?
Sorry to keep ranting, but there is just no excuse for an experienced scorer going 1-11. Regarding the big men, between Horford, McGary, and Morgan, we have 5 points, 5 fouls, and 7 turnovers. That is just unbelievably awful.
Even worse, Hardaway, McGary, and Robinson combined for 8 points on 4-20 shooting. You're not going to come anywhere near a good team when 3 starters do that.
THEY WERE OUTSCORED BY SPIKE ALBRECHT, COREY PERSON, AND ESO AKUNNE.
Dude, thank you for the avatar. Much needed after last night's massacre.
The offense has become completely one-dimensional
That was the most alarming thing you said... Because its so true. Pick roll. Pick in roll. Watch the pick and roll. Michigan has to get back to their base sets. Play better team basketball. Michigan has a ton of soul searching to do.
When TheGhostofYost is having one of his post loss "meltdowns"....and everyone agrees because he's 100% right, and it's not really a meltdown at all.
CJ Lee leaves, team lacks leadship and nose dives. Zack Novak/Stu Douglas leave... This slow start on the road thing is no longer a fluke.
I disagree with your assessment. I think that at this point in the season, the big minutes being played by our freshman, have officially caught up with us. GR3 and Stauskus look anemic out there. The B1G is a tough schedule, and with a team how feeds heavy minutes to 3 freshman, wear will show earlier than most. Further, mental toughness is forged through battle, and this team just needs to continue to forge that mindset. Burke and Morgan has it...Timmy had a bad game, but this is a one off for him. Lets enjoy a team that has more than outplayed expectations and let them weather the B1G season, and take the lessons learned on the way and apply them in the B1G and NCAA tournament. That is the one upside to having alot of freshman, that they have a larger capacity to improve over a season than any other team, and their base is pretty fucking good
We have been outplayed, outshot, outhustled, outcoached and outeverything in this fucking game.
Robinson has got to be hurt. There is now way he shouldn't have thrown that down.
Refs sucked tonight and the team has no effort or energy. Novak has to be furious.
It's not why we lost, but they might as well have drafted random Sparty fans and put them in striped uniforms tonight. The NCAA tournament is going to be a breath of fresh air just getting away from Big Ten refs.
Well you'd have to try pretty hard to lose by triple digits, refs or no refs.
There were a couple calls that were bs but for the most part I thought they were alright. We were god awful.
You're calling out the refs? Seriously?
nobody came to play
This team hasn't been ready for a game in 3 weeks. We don't have an offense and our defense is pathetic.
What's the opposite of muppets?
GRIII should not start. Bench him until he shows more effort.
I think starting instead of coming off the bench freaked McGary out.
I know Burke is the only one who came to play but he's been walking back on defense a lot this game, not a good example.
I know Burke is the only one who came to play but he's been walking back on defense a lot this game, not a good example.
Kittens...thank you. I need this.
Robinson and Stauskas have both been absolutely terrible in big games. Robinson more so (doesn't even deserve to play) but we won't with a 2nd round tourney game with the production we get out of everybody except Burke, Hardaway (when on), and McGary.
Hey guys we got Bryan Mone
Pretty good summation at top. Somewhere along the line this turned from a team of athletic young dynamos to a team of jump shooters. That's really all you can say about us anymore. The defense is flimsy, the physicality is non-existant and the offense has no Plan B if the jump shots don't fall. We don't even look like we're playing smart anumre, which is never something I thought I'd say about a Beilein team.
Well put. I remember hearing a while back Beilein was quoted as saying he's never had a team like this and he's really learning to just step back and not over-coach this type of team. I've been wondering the second half of the season (even before this stretch of 3 out of 4 losses) if he's stepped back too much. This team has no flow.
I'm not jumping off of anything but realisticly, there are flaws with this team and they're becoming mroe apparent each week. Many times they're hidden, tonight they've been exploited.
A Michigan game off (even during the Rodriguez era), but I can't watch this anymore! Wow! What a disappointment.
To all the 2012-1013 Sparty B-ball doubters, please stand up, pelase stand up!
to say this, but the guy has a point.
You can all be sour-pusses if ya like, but be real. It sucks to say/admit but are you blind to not see they're coming into form the latter half of the season?! Good lord. One can't just chalk tonight's game up to us having an off night. A good team whooped our behinds.
At least we have the better football team for the forseeable future.
Even with that we won by 2 points...at home. We now have extended our winning streak to one. Since MSU plays out of their mind against us, being the better team doesn't guarantee a win. We actually need to show up and meet the inensity of our rivals. We were very far from doing that tonight.
Gutless, just completely gutless. They should all be ashamed
No way to spin it. We got crushed. One Blogger is giving up the board for lent. I may just give up Michigan basketball altogether for lent.
Don't pull a hamstring trying to jump back on the bandwagon later
Thank you for this comment. Pretty sick of the roller coaster of emotions Michigan fans are showing in basketball and football lately. Support the kids. MSU was the better team tonight. Get over it.
You mean since you've joined this board?
I've been saying it for a month now, this team is LAZY!!! And it's not just on defense way too many guys just standing around waiting for someone else to do something! Disgusting!
i cannot recall more than five times in the last 5 games that burke has gone to the rack. grIII doea not deserve to be on the floor right now. on a good note he should enter his name in the mls draft cus he cant create he can just run around
wish I cared less about Michigan Athletics... It is wonderful most of the time, but times like these make me want to rip my hair out, and cry in fetal position for an hour.
This is a goddamn disgrace. It's like watching a high school team scrimmage grade school kids on the play ground.
I didn't even watch, I decided to watch the state of the union instead (yea,yea no politics I know). It's the same shit everytime. The team is simply not elite and it showed.
C'mon, you didn't even watch (hell, start to watch) ?!?
A team doesn't have to be elite to watch them. It sucked tonight for sure, but a fan watches their team. (I'd almost get if, Braveheart was on, but the SOTU?!)
Of course how could I be so ignorant
a lot of big, defensive minded teams in the tourney early - recipe for disaster
I have not seen anything that resembles a good basketball team tonight. At least they can beat up on Penn State and give them some confidence. Not that it will matter much because this team can't rebound or play defense.
An ass-kicking so thorough that you hope it's a reality check and a humbling that will build the team back up for greater endings.
Wow. That was just brutal. I had to turn that off (haven't done that in a long long time). That was an ass-kicking if ever there was one. This team will not go far in March if they cannot step up their physicality.
Latest is they still don't know, but they're saying it didn't look good.
It's just one loss and will serve as a wake up for the team.
Just a disaster. Only hope is that they badly need the week off.
If you don't let us run and can guard Burke, we have issues. I feel like there aren't many teams outside the Big Ten that can do that, but man. And the defense has been awful, particularly in the first halves.
I like the continuation on another player that's being discussed right now.
Attitude: Michigan doesn't have it.
Do we still lose like this if Wisky misses that shot? I think so.
GRIII seems to be losing confidence.
I think you can make a case that this was/is the worst loss in U-M hoop history.
You forget Michigan vs. Indiana in 1937, when most of the stadium was destroyed by invading martians in the second half. The only surviving player, a Hoosier, when on to score 58 unanswered points before the game was called by an injured referee who escaped the alien slave-crafts.
This was still worse.
Now that's just mean.
I thought we agreed to never talk about that game again on this blog.
We at least sucked then.
This is what the team needs. Before this stretch, we were flying too high and got too cocky. This stretch may just bring the team down to earth, and show them that they need to win games with effort as well.
Penis! What a crappy end to the day
You say Penis like it's a bad thing.
Game KILLED this team. I think they let Wisconsin beat them twice.
What a brutal stretch though - four ranked teams in a row, three of them on the road.
Have to question where the leadership is going to come from now...?
I thought Morgan was supposed to be our defensive rock? How many times did he get outhustled?
First basketball or football game I turned off early in a couple years...just seems like one of those nights. State couldn't miss - we couldn't hit anything (even layups).
Morgan was gutting it out on one leg and if you watched he defended Nix beautifully when he was in there. He is a problem only in the sense that we miss having him in the game at 100%
We totally are coming back from 30 down with a few minutes to play now.
I reversed jinxed it.
Sorry everyone. My bad.
Piss poor effort from me as well as the basketball team tonight.
Is it possible that this team is just totally and utterly exhausted? Think about this stretch they have played since last saturday. @Indiana, OSU, @wisco, @msu. Plus going to overtime in two of them. They are off until Sunday, I want to see this team get rested, get pissed and come back strong to finish off this season.
Many if us probably have wet dreams about this team playing pissed off so let's hope that happens. But we've seen no indication that that us in their genetic makeup. They are more worried about trying to remember what option 13(b)(4)(D) is off the high pick and roll than they are about kicking someone's ass.
This is why you don't make an "Izzo's team is garbage" thread in November.
Hopefully this game wakes this team up. They aren't doing anything in March looking like they did tonight.
You can only say "this was a wake-up call" or "the freshmen grew up tonight" so many times before accepting that this team just isn't as good as we all hoped.
I'm not saying this was a wake-up call. I'm saying I HOPE it is.
This team is way too talented to get blown out like they did tonight.
If they get it together, I still think this team is capable of doing big things. However, if this is what we look like in March, we ain't doin' shit.
I look at this team the last 3 weeks and see a decent Beilein WV team. I'm not sure what happened over the last month, but I don't like it. Our guys are scared out there. They don't rebound, they don't defend, they don't go to the basket. Its unfortunate that we haven't really improved or grown during b10 play. If anything we've regressed.
Running the table the rest of the way and parlaying it into a B1G tourney championship and a strong NCAA tourney showing will most certainly make tonight and Saturday forgettable.
Just don't feel M has what it takes. The next 3 vs. PSU, vs. ILL, @ PSU will be key to kickstarting it.
Disagree. Beating up on average to below average teams does nothing. They did that for the majority of the first 60% of the schedule. They have beaten no one (Minn) on the road. They have been exposed from the OSU game forward on how to be beaten. Pressure Burke, take away options, punch GR3 in the mouth (he disappears) and out work Michigan.
Defense always travels. Offense will go into a funk. OSU with 1.5 freaking offensive options almost beat UM on the road. WIscy always is tough to beat with almost no offensive talent. Michigan is a fun offensive team against inferior talent, but does not show the defensive effort or drive to play with big boys. Beating PSU by 15 wont change that.
fucking joke this game was... yet another game that JB does not have this team prepared for...
Everything is still terrible. No reason to alter my hatred of it yet.
Probably have lost worse, but those teams weren't good. No reason for this team to get run out of town in the biggest game of their season to date.
Backs are against the wall now and have to win out just to share. But this doesn't look like a team that's even going to be able to protect home court right now. More likely we're just trying to get our shit together because all this ugly gets erased with a nice run in March. But it's sad to be playing for March before mid-February with this team.
We may not be #1, but we're not playing to the level of our talent either. We can keep using youth as an excuse, because guess what- this is college basketball today. You're almost never going to have a talented and experienced team. You have to find a way to win with freshmen, and sophomores.
And everyone dissing Izzo and MSU back a month ago, uhm, yeah....
In January is an absolute idiot
I'd watch this tape every day if I was Trey Burke. See those "things" laughing at us. See all those, terrible things.
How do you come out so flat in the three biggest road games of the year @ OSU, Indiana and MSU games with absolutely no energy and effort. There are two big differences from this year to last, 1. Novak and company had heart and effort but almost no elite talent - 2. This team has elite offensive talent but no heart and effort which is really what defense, rebounding and hustle create.
I would almost rather watch last years team at this point as at least you would count on the kids hustling after almost everything 100% of the time. At this point, it seems like everyone wants to only hustle to get down to the 3 point line to try to get a long-range shot, way too man y offensive boards due to simply not blocking out and putting in effort, and what appears to be a distinct lack of effort and aggresive play around the basket.
There is no killer instinct that has at least been displayed at this point, and it would be nice to see someone finally drive effort around an almost insane level of effort at hustle plays and defense.
The team will be in Ann Arbor for the next 15 days or so. They need to get some rest now and watch highlights of this game everyday till they meet these guys again.
They ran out of gas last year, hopefully they can get back some momentum over this break.
They did fail in their most important stretch of the season to date though. They can turn things back around.
This team is playing scared. Why I have no idea but you can see it in their eyes, their body language and their overall play.
They are scared.
They are not scared, they are small. And unlike scared, that can't be fixed easily.
Scared. Watch the first ten minutes of all the important Big Ten games we've played this year.
Can a team built around players out of their ideal size-based position really contend on the big stage? It seems clear that GR3 is not ready to play the Novak role (and I don't think many people ever will be--Novak was a special guy)
I think that the way this team is built sets it up for failure on the defensive end. We have no athletic bigs to cover our mediocre perimeter defenders. Ideally, McGary/Morgan would be a 4, and we would have a stronger 5 presence.
I see that I'm rambling. I dunno. I just think this team is doomed to be soft. I know I know they're allllll freshmen, but I just don't see where we can grow. To me it's like a 6 foot linebacker who could be really good but he's just too small
If he's getting 4 points a game solely on put-backs.
Guards rule the tournament, but eventually you need some down low presence.
Is old man Paine still in?
Granny Harris put its fake teeth back in.
Okay. I'm going to bed
He's like the Alfonso Soriano of basketball. When he's hot you can't guard him. When he's cold the basket could be 10 feet wide and he still wouldn't make it.
Game's not over, we can do this!
All I really saw tonight was true freshmen playing like true freshmen. Couldn't buy a basket under the hoop, lots of thoughtless turnovers. They got flustered on the big stage because they're young and they're not ready. Hopefully this gets them ready.
I thought getting manhandled in Columbus got the freshmen ready? Or was it getting blown off the court the first half against Indiana that taught them what it's like to play on the big stage?
It might just be that we're not a top-10 team.
I don't know what to tell you, but growing up takes time. I think the tough games are showing us that we probably aren't a top-10 team. When these guys are hitting on all cylinders, they're really tough to beat. When they're off, they can be beat by good teams. This is much better than previous years when if we were off, we could be beat by anyone.
Beyound stupid to play the back-ups for such extensive minutes. Even if your in foul trouble you have to go with your main guys before it gets out of hand. Completely outcoached tonight.
Got pushed around and couldn't do anything about it. Very early 2000s like.
Michigan looked like the softest team in the country. What a joke. Well at least we know that GRIII and Hardaway wont be entering the draft. I doubt they could get minutes in the WNBA at this point.
I get that you're pissed, but this kind of shit makes you look like an idiot.
Burn the tape and move on. Nothing to take from this one. They came to play and we didn't.
We don't have the bodies to match up. It's not just a matter of not giving effort.
I don't buy that. They came out making everything and we didn't respond. If nix shoots 70% in Ann Arbor ill freely admit I'm wrong.
I will be happy if this team only makes the sweet 16 now.
They should fall out of the top 10 after this game. They have lost 3 out of 4...and have just been humiliated on the road.
That Izzo is such a great human being. I love him so much.
I don't watch much NBA, but after these last few games against high level competition how in the world in Burke considered such a high draft pick? His D is average, his outside shot is iffy and agianst tall, quick defenders he gets shut down.
Go back and look at his stats and tell me he got shut down. He's the only one that shows up to play.
A point guard needs players around him to do something. ANYTHING. He'd have that in the NBA. If they didnt have Burke tonight they would have lost by 25.
Oh wait. Ok 40. There was no offensive without him. NONE>
Trey had 18 points on 7-11 shooting (3-5 from deep) with 4 assists and 3 steals and you're mad at him!?
I just don't understand how you can write a statement like that. Trey Burke is the only reason this team didn't lose by 50 tonight.
Outcoached, outhustled, outsmarted, and outskilled....
We didn't play our best
I'm still not convinced we even played.
Izzo was pretty classy in the post-game interview.
He usually is when they win....... Cries like a little baby if they lose
He usually is when they win....... Cries like a little baby if they lose
This teams ceailing is the seet 16, and we saw exactly why tonight. Go Blue!
How far UM goes in the tourney will probably depend on who they end up playing. A physical team will give them problems. A team that can defend on the perimeter will give them problems. After watching these last 4 games, it seems if you can keep Burke from penetrating, you're going to cause the UM offense fits. Wisky usually trailed Burke on the pick and roll but their big men was set up so Burke couldn't knife to the bucket.
We are an easy team to defend. Switch off and stay in Burke's face on the pick and rolls . . . don't allow penetration, and get in the pockets of the perimeter shooters. We have no answer.
That's obviously easier said than done buddy.
For some reason I have very little emotion towards this loss. Maybe because M got taken out so early in the game. I was much more irate about @OSU and @Wisc, but this. Jaded, man. Jaded.
I realize defense is an issue but do they not have any set plays on offense to try and get somone a good open look? It seems the offense is either 3 man weave on the perimeter or pick and roll on the perimeter.
State, from Izzo on down, WANTED this much much more than Michigan did. He outcoached Beilein from start to finish. Period. Don't get me wrong, i really like what Beilein is doing and has done already this year, but tonight, it was ugly, and it starts with the HC.
As for the team, anybody not named Burke got dominated, and he only marginally played better than Appling. Hardaway was a total no show, including ZERO defense to go with his awful 1-11 shooting tonight. GRIII has bottomed out, let's hope he gets his mojo back and gets back on track. The Big guys got thoroughly dominated, really hope Morgan gets healthy and playing again, they miss his interior presence, and he is the only nasty player on the team. McGary played like a freshman tonight.
All told, gotta take a step back, that was the most difficult 4 game stretch any team will have, and if Brust does not heave his miracle shot, Michigan would be in excellent shape.
Got some easier games upcoming (2 against Penn St plus a home game with the now resurgent Illini) before the State game again. Hope they get some wins, get their confidence back, and try to return the favor in two and a half weeks.
Again, this is why the Wisconsin loss hurts so much, now Mich has to win out and hope to get some help with MSU and IU each losing one more game.
Ehhhh we could be Kansas...
Ummmm... Welp? Is that a thought?
For real though, it's one game. We take them and Indiana at home and we still have a shot at the Big Ten. Long shot? Sure, but you know what? This is the first time in a long time I can say that we still have a great shot in the tournament.
Until we run into a team with a half decent interior presence and they sweep us off the floor.
Note to John: Don't play lineup of spike carius max tim and jon for ten minutes a half.
Guys, we got Bryan Mone today. That is awesome.
We just went through the toughest 4 game stretch in all of college basketball. We come out 2-2 if Wisky doesn't make an absolute prayer. We played Indiana very tough on the road. Every team has one terrible loss, this was ours. We are still a great team with a decent chance to make a Final Four run. Just calm down people!
Look at our last three games versus states:
2-09 at Purdue
2-02 at Indiana
2-09 at wisc
Ten days, three ranked opponents, two on the road. State: Zero ranked opponents, two games at home over the same time.
Tough, ugly loss for sure but we are definitely closer to the team that played well against Indiana and osu versus the team that got crushed tonight.
We're not the #1 team but were no slouch either...
Unfortunately in all of those games the same things showed up as weaknesses.
Other teams wanted it more than us and played much harder
Got dominated on the boards
No offense from Stauskas or GRII
No offensive creativity
No ability to impose our will on the other team or get defensive stops when it matters
Overall, right now something looks off with the team and I don't know how or if they can fix it in time for the tourney. I'm getting flachbacks to Burke trying to play one on five at the end of last year and that's not a place I like being in very much.
You could have also been 0-4 if THJ didn't have an NBA Jam fireball shooting out of his ass. Ifs, ans and buts. Subjective memory is subjective.
Duke has responded well against squishy competition after their rout at Miami, there's no reason we can't do the same.
Our team looked like a team that asks significant contributions from 3 freshman, or 60% of the players on the floor, lest we forget Burke is only in his sophomore year as well. The youth argument is probably an old, tired argument, and it won't make you feel better, but it's true and worth acknowledging.
Our lack of offensive sets is getting ridiculous. It's apparent when Spike is running the point, we can't do anything! Go back two years, we had a far-less talented team, but we were able to run sets and get good looks. We just can't do that against good defenses this year.
As much as I dislike Izzo, at least he gets in his player's ass when they play like shit. I wouldn't mind seeing Beilein do something besides take a drink of water.
but based on comments above, it seems like the same thing may have happened here that happened in other loses. We can thunderstruck and no one knows how to respond, Trey Burke plays some hero ball, the other team gets jacked up and there's no Novak to have an Aneurysm of Leadership
STAT OF THE NIGHT: Tim, Horford, GRob, and Morgan were OUTSCORED by Albrecht, Person, and Akunne
GRIII looks like a beaten puppy out there...pretty much since the first OSU game. I still think he has a lot of upside...and I want him to do well. But someone needs to get inside his head and get his confidence back.
Is Glenn Robinson jr still a lottery pick? If so then Garry Harris should be the #1 pick. Also, this team doesn't have the depth to win a national title. I'll be happy with a sweet 16 appearance. They need a couple more good recruiting classes before they can be final four caliber team.
He'll be lucky after three years here to get drafted.
that I don't live in Michigan anymore is when we lose to Sparty. I work with a few buckeyes, but they only care about football and only talk trash about ohio beating Michigan.
Still want to move back though.
It had been pretty bad lately. Bandwagon MSU football fans have been out of control lately. They know nothing abut football, it is a joke.
I just deny even liking college football (3 times before the cock crows) when there are people like that around me. No sense in talking to them about anything really. Especially something I care so much about.
I know next to nothing about basketball. That said I really thought JB would get into GRIII's shit and he'd come out waxing fools. I assumed he's one of the most athletic and talented dudes on the floor no matter the opponent. Guess I was wrong. He dribbles twice and picks it up hoping to dump it off.
Fuck, I'm drunk. Just need to snowflake shit I guess. We aren't what we thought we were. And by we I mean UM, then when it makes sense I mean we as in us fans.
Michigan football and basketball teams are a combined 26-51 against Ohio and MSU since 2000. Thats a .337 % winning percentage. I couldnt' be more disgusted/upset. I feel like I root for an average sports team.
In the second half thread that even though osu and msu are our two biggest rivals UM always seems to come out flat against them lately. UM always talks about those two games being the biggest ever and then in fball and bball we come out and shit the fucking bed. I think that comment wins every thread from here on out.
UM talks the talk, osu and msu walk the walk.
This has to go down as the WORST decade + in Michigan history, right?
This is a snowflake thread. Take your grounded, sage wisdom elsewhere, man! +1 from this drunk over reactor.
I chose those dates because 2000 onward is a good starting point for modern college sports, the age of ESPN, recruiting services, big tv contracts. Do you think recruits or anyone under the age of 25 really remembers what Michigan was like before 2000?
Based on what? I'm not trying to be overly snarky (or even remotely so), but how old are you? TV money did not suddenly arive on the scene in 2000, and ESPN has been around for DECADES. March Madness has been an advertizing/TV contract bonanza for years and years, to say nothing of the massive amounts of money exchanged in office pools, bracket challenges, etc. Simply because some under the age of 25 might not remember Michigan pre-2000 (and I think many would) doesn't have anything to do with whether that time period (and arguably decades before that) was part of "modern college sports." I don't think you'll find too many people argue that the Fab Five were not a part of "modern college sports" and that was twenty years ago. While the stats from 2000 to the present say what they say, and I'm not knocking you for pointing them out (I agree they are fairly depressing) I think you could tell a completely different story simply looking at a different starting point. In the end, Michigan is still Michigan. Despite tonight's disappointment, I don't think you can honestly deny that both football and basketball are trending in the right direction.
How is that arbitrary? The point he wanted to make is we've struggled against our rivals for some time now and he figured out it went downhill starting from then to back up his point.
Well, we were clearly outplayed.
What stands out to me is that the team didn't come together -- the big road game script started out the same, fall behind by double digits. This time there was no rally. There was no hussle. Plenty of mindless errors and mistakes atypical of even this young Michigan team (turnovers stuck out).
To me, it seems they gave up. I don't know what the chemistry of the team is, but I can see that it's clearly not at a Zach Novak/Stu Douglass level. It's just a group of talented guys playing basketball, but there's been no cohesion through this stretch.
We're overrated. Our nonconference schedule was soft, and while a 21-4 record is nothing to scoff at, we've lost every big game, and the only big game we won was against Ohio State, a game most wrote off as a surefire Michigan double-digit type win, but the result was an OT 2 point decision.
I actually think our OOC schedule was one of the best. Maybe not at the top, but Pitt, K-State, and NC State have all been solid teams. MSU played Kansas (overrated) and UConn, and lost to Miami which now looks a lot better but still doesn't count as a win.
We'll be fine. Stop sinking the ship guys.
Horford is done. Bielfeldt or bust. Morgan is still banged up, really questionable having him out there. Robinson is a shell of himself. He's having THJ's first two seasons bundled into one. Don't have to worry about him going to the NBA. THJ could probably stick around too, he'd be the face of the program next season. Just a sloppy game overall. Obviously, we are not this bad, but you have got to question Beilein's ability in this big road games.
Penn State-Illinois-Penn State? That's just what we need right now.
I hate to quote George Pearles, but the tougher team won.
I thought Beilein was gonna fall asleep in that chair during the game.
A common meme when we look bad is that we have major contribution from freshmen. True and noted.
But at the same time, I ask where we can actually expect to grow? I doubt Stauskas will magically get good at defense by the end of this year. I doubt GRIII grows up to play the 4 against physical teams by the end of this year. Then we probably lose Burke and THJ at the end of this year. Gone with them is essentially the entirety of this team's shot creation on offense.
I know I'm all gloom and doom and preparing for my flamebait ending thought, but until we start cloning McGarys and Burkes, I fear that we've seen this team (and future teams with this core of players) hit its ceiling.
Kate Upton is on Letterman tonight....wish I didnt just smash my TV to pieces
I hate my life.
One: MSU easily played their best game of the year - they earned it tonight.
Two: No conference allows as much hand checking and bumping as the Big Ten (except the ACC's allowance for Duke). The tournament will open up some space.
Three: This team is playing game 4 of an obscene 4-game stretch. This team looked tired. Go lose at Wisconsin 3 days ago the way these kids did and see how you show up at your next game - on the road.
Four: No team in the conference has had a stretch like this. State has near the equivalent with 2 at home and 2 away. If they're better than 2-2 in that stretch, they'll have deserved the regular season crown.
Five: all the big ones are at home the rest of the way out - and there's only 2. And the next 3 games are cake-tastic; a change to get healthy.
They'll sweep their way to the finale against Indiana for a chance to share the crown. That one I'm not predicting. And Belien is tough to prepare for - we are not the most upsetable team in the country. Barring injury, I still expect a very good March
Defines the "problem" with this squad. I can tell you how I hoped they would respond. I can tell you how team with a championship mentality would respond. vWith toughness, determination and a sense of urgency. With a better understanding of just how important every possession is in these big road games.
You can let that Wisconsin game beat you twice or you can use it as a valuable teaching moment.
Let this be a learning experience for them. They'll evaluate how they handled this stretch and find ways to better handle it next time. Frustrating as hell to lose to our in-state rival, but at the end of the year no one cares who won the B1G. This isn't football: there is a real post-season. If we learn from this gauntlet experience and improve for the big dance, then we're better for it. If not, ehhh not so much.
Always remember: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
What I wouldn't give to still have Stu and Novak on the team. The Wolverines lack leadership and the on-court smarts of experience. I just don't get the sense that Burke or Hardaway understand how to steady a game when things begin to spin out of control. I have no doubt that the freshmen are mentally worn out after this stretch which means they must rely even more on Hardaway and Burke to keep the game broken down into pieces they can handle, instead within the first few minutes they looked helpless against an avalanche they saw rolling their way.
My biggest hope is that this drubbing embarrasses and pisses them off enough that they figure out, like I posted previously, how to play with a "get-the-fuck-off-my-court" attitude. More than anything, that's what State brought tonight.
tell Red to get the hockey team out of the MBB team locker room.
When it got tough, they quit. No fight tonight.
I didn't realize Lloyd Carr was with Hoke at the game. Makes it worse, somehow.
No heart? I'm all heart motherfucker!
David Brandon needs to have a chat with JB... Uneccaptable to loose to ur rival like this, taking Burke out was like when MSU took out Denard in football.. Take out the main players and we are done, shit our pants
This is 100% true and infuriates me. The whole program got embarrassed tonight. I wanted to believe this game would be different but I should have been honest with myself. Against a physical, athletic team that gives max effort with the best Coach in the country, we had no chance.
If you've ever been to an Izzo practice and compared it to Beileins these outcomes would not surprise you.
There is a HUGE difference in intensity and that carries over to the games. Our intensity the past few years was player driven and those players are gone.
Don't get me wrong, I love Beilein and these players may grow into great competitors, but they aren't right now and so we'll cower in the corner while the more intense teams pound us.
I hate to say it but it is not a coincidence that OSU, MSU, Wisconsin and IU all had great games against us. They play harder and we're terrible on defense.
If Izzo or Coach K had our players I have no doubt that we'd be a lockdown defensive unit. We are not too small to accomplish that. These players just have to care more. Until then, we'll be a talented team who wins every game except games against teams that play defense. Defense gives us the heebie jeebies
What i dont get is that when osu and msu play us, its like their fuckin championship game they give all they have, we play just like its another game, both BB and FB.. WTf there is no more hate from our side anymore, i dont know if its the coaches or the players.
was outcoached in the last two games. The offense has been terrible, it's the same pick and roll play 90% of the time and if that doesn't work the ball just gets flung around the arc until someone jacks up a shot. Movement toward the basket, both with and without the ball is nearly non-existent. Thus we draw no fouls and we can't score for shit unless we're scorching from the 3pt line. I can't understand how Beilein is unable to get this group to score.
On defense, well, I think the problem is more systemic. Beilein's 3-heavy system depends on a four who can shoot threes. Unfortunately, three-point shooting and rebounding are not commonly found in the same player (praise be Novak). To over come that you need either (1) a dominate 5 to control the boards; or (2) a lot of hustle and gang rebounding by perimeter players. Lately, we've got neither. The lack of shot blocking makes on-ball defense of the upmost importance, although I don't see anything in Beilein's system that would tend to a lack of shot-blocking, except maybe hesitancy to foul. The on-ball defense has been horrible, but that's completely on the players, not the system.
I'm not sure it's fair to blame the problem on the team being a "finesse" team on offense, since you can have a "finesse", which I suppose means non-post based, offense without having horrible on ball defenders. Both the Heat and Spurs run what would be considered a finesse offense, but their defenses are very good. But notice that the forwards on those teams, namely Kawahi Leonard and LeBron, are good rebounders. Our forwards, GRIII and Stauskas, are pretty shit rebounders (but good 3pt shooters) and I think that's part of the problem. The other part is just lazy on ball defense.
The offense is what is so frustrating to me. It's like you said they're either doing a 3 man weave on the perimeter or pick and roll on the perimeter. Do not they not have any set plays to free someone up? No one is moving without the ball. They rarely if ever throw the ball into the low post. For a coach that is supposed to be really good with the x and o's, you'd think he'd come up with a few tweaks here and there over this tough stretch.
I don't know if I'd call them a "finesse" team. I think of them more as a team that likes to get out and run, led by a PG who can fly and makes good decisions in transition. Slow them down with a physical, in your shorts type defense though and they grind to a halt. I don't understand this though since JB is known for his offense. It's as if he threw all of those concepts out the window when he saw what Morris could do with a pick and roll. I don't know if that's on Burke, if the freshmen have yet to grasp what has been described as a difficult to learn offense or what. This team cannot seem to think beyond one pass and from what I know of the offense that JB brought to Ann Arbor it was about multiple decisions on each pass, depending on what action they got from the defense. I don't see them thinking the game like this at all.
No shouting or suicide drills. Just make the point that until you stop being so soft , your name is not going on a UM jersey. Kicking PSU's butt doesn't count either. Beilein must in his own way get these boys to grow up.
And does anyone think Hardaway is ready for the pros?
I love the taking the names off the jersey idea. This was an embarrassment and they need to fully understand that.
Let's lick our wounds and get back at it. Nothing like Penn st. to get ya back on track. MSU took the first of four at home, the season isn't over yet.
We played worse than the refs tonight. The refs would have been an excuse if the game was single didgets. What happend to our awesome offensive plays and back door cuts. It's almost as if Johnny B has assumed now that he has talent he can get away with stagnet offense
Hey on the bright side it can only go up from here
KenPom was a little off tonight.
It's probably no coincidence that at least right now the top 3 teams in the conference standings (IU, MSU and Wisky) have the 3 biggest road wins in conference play - IU in Columbus, Wisky in Bloomington and Sparty in Madison.
If we're playing this poorly at NCAA time, we're going to need a fortunate draw to make it out of the first weekend. I wouldn't put a nickel on this team right now.
going to call into WTKA this morning? Tell me when so I can turn it to 97.1.
Anyone still feel the need to argue with me about this team not being on the Fab Five's level? I knew people here were highly overrating them on here when they thought this team would even stand a chance.
Feel bad for the team regardless. MSU played one of their best games in a long time and Michigan played terrible.
If MSU could beat us up on the inside like that, what would the Fab Five have done?
The perfect night for the serenity now episode of Seinfeld.
I was at the game in the middle of the inbreds. Don't give up yet on this team, still a lot of Big Ten Season and Tourney time left to bounce back from a 2 game meltdown.
- Team didn't win a single loose ball tonight. The 10 day stretch obviously had them on fumes tonight
- Played the tough stretch with their most experienced big man barely able to contribute. Love him or hate him, we all knew they needed JM against MSU's inside game
- Whine much? I know I do. But the first 4 minutes of the 2nd half, the whistle took this game from a 10 point game to a 20 point game very quickly with Burke's terrible 3rd foul call (is that a foul on Nix every time he puts a 'gentle' shoulder into a defender to move him?) and Payne landing on Stauskas on the pump fake. I have always believed 2 or 3 bad calls, timed right, can change a close game into a blowout.
- In a world where UM, MSU, Ind, OSU, Wisky, and Minn don't lose at home and beat everyone else, UM and MSU are still on pace for 4 B1G losses and another shared title.
More like deathflakes.
The only thing I take away from this game is I watched in Phuket, Thailand and my sling box connection was awful so I missed big chunks of the game. Even that crap game couldn't ruin the beauty of this place.
College basketball can be impacted by player emotion and state had a lot more. That is disappointing. I still expect great things from the team this year. I don't have an analysis as to why but I think Robinson gets a second wind and the coaches come up with the right adjustments. Or maybe too much sun is messing with my logic.
at Axe Body Spray Arena
I really think that this 2 week stretch was the worst possible way the schedule could have played out. For a young team looking to build/maintain confidence, the fact that they were on the road for 3/4 with the middle game a killer against OSU meant there was no breather, no time to recover, etc. Now the onslaught is over, however I think their confidence has been affected in a way that a more spread out schedule would not have caused.
It's not an excuse, the B1G schedulers weren't trying to screw anybody, just bad luck imo
Hope our HR rep doesn't care if I have to resort to punching a Sparty in the face this morning for their big mouths.
As a HR Generalist, I'd let it slide today. I'm tempted to encourage it but I like my job too much! Hail
Wait, so are we complaining that the coach that we stole from west Virginia can't coach defense, struggles against top competition and has a team that appears to fall apart in the heart of the B10 schedule?
At least we didn't wear alternate uniforms? #snowflake
Stu and Zack
tipoff last night and I'm still in shock. That was one of the most embarrassing games in 20 years for UM simply because there was zero effort or fight by us.
I couldn't care less that Sparty won big as our shooting was dreadful while they were hot - that happens.
It's our lack of toughness. Things don't go right and this team just goes into a shell.
The thing about Stu and Zack (see post below) is that they had to fight for every scrap. These freshmen got lots of media attention early and often, with talk of some of them going pro (including non-freshmen Burke and THJ) after this season. That could be why they lack fight. Too much ego and everything coming too easily, too soon. Not enough adversity. My hope is that the lessons can be learned at this point, and that Belein is good at those kind of lessons.
Here is the in-conference data for box score stats for road wins versus road losses:
|STATISTIC||ROAD WIN||ROAD LOSS||Differential|
|POINTS PER GAME||83.7||60.0||-28.3%|
Here is the defensive efficiency of our road oppoenents in the conference:
This was mentioned in the thread over the weekend where someone talked about Robinson's in-game performance on the road, but you'll note that the team as a whole, against tougher defenses, can't seem to get the rhythm that they need and are considerably more tentative and less opportunistic. That being said, we would sit a few spots below Minnesota on the second chart, so really, the key in my opinion is to simply keep working on getting defensive rebounds, driving in and not trying to rely on the three-point shot, and being a little more selective about the shots they do make in these situations against tougher defenses. I also think it is experience for this team and that it will definitely moderate and improve with time in the system.
If a team can keep Burke from driving and dishing, well, there goes the whole offense. Been the biggest supporter of Beilein in past, but rather than particular players having off nights, or certain flaws in particular games, this "softer" euro style is seeming more and more like a larger fundamental flaw.
We dominate teams with less-athletic guards when Burke can penetrate and our "smooth as vanilla" 3 pt game can click uncontested. We totally unravel against decent defense when Burke can't penetrate because we can't pound, rebound and grind in a way that the big ten demands from a conference champion. NCAA tourney will be a breath of fresh air for offense. Need to get tougher.