Trying times for Tressel and Terelle
Was over at Eleven Warriors in search of some schadenfreude and found a fascinating turn of events over at the worst state ever.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2009/09/moral-victories-are-for-those-del…
Seems like there are two major camps in buckeye territory with some overlap:
1. Pryor is overrated (sweet poetic justice particularly in light of the the Force)
2. Sweatervest has to go.
It's getting pretty ugly and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy most of the comments, but I wonder if this goes beyond that. Should we expect a major change in that program or is this just the lingering effects of the USC game?
Either way, the article and the comments that follow are an entertaining read for any M fan.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:04 PM ^
any OSU fan who says tressel has to go is a MORON. they have owned the big ten for the last few years
September 13th, 2009 at 4:12 PM ^
Maybe they should go back and watch some old Cooper tapes.
Also, it's easy to say yeah let's get rid of Coach "X". The harder part is who would you replace him with that would be MORE sucessful?
September 13th, 2009 at 4:29 PM ^
Urban Meyer?
September 13th, 2009 at 4:52 PM ^
That would be a lateral move. Ohio State may have slightly more tradition, but the built in recruiting advantage more than makes up for that. Plus I'm not even certain Ohio State would want to deal with some of the guys he squeezes through admissions at UF.
Also Meyer and his 2006 UF team is one of the biggest reasons for the negative perception of the Big 10 at the moment. Why would he want to come to a conference everyone bashes as weak and archaic when he can be a part of a conference that gets it D sucked by ESPN 365 days a year because it is so amazing.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
No joke but there were a number of commenters who were confident that John Gruden was a feasible replacement and one even noted that Urban Meyer shouldnt be ruled out.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:06 PM ^
That's why there are so many saying Tressel has to go.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:13 PM ^
last February. Tressel is doing a great job there and the record speaks for itself. Sure they lost by 3 points to a beaten up USC team, but OSU is still a favorite for the Big Ten title.
That said, the Toledo game next weekend at a neutral sight might be kind of interesting.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:15 PM ^
couldn't happen to a more deserving coach, players and fanbase.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:19 PM ^
has that killer instinct that you like to see in your HC and QB. They had the lead and were super conservative when they got the ball. You cant do that, you cannot give USC a chance like that. Be agressive, move the ball and kill the clock. 3 plays and a small amount of time off the clock seemed like a success for them. It shouldnt be. Move the ball downfield and end the game.
Pryor just doesnt look like he is that determined, almost like he is unsure. Maybe its the playcalling, I happend to think its both.
For all for all of the Weis bashing. The 3rd and 10 play was there. It worked, it was open, they didnt execute. He gets bashed for the call, but the call in and of itself worked, as the WR was wide open for the first and most likley the game, the players however did not execute on that play. Jimmah again couldnt make the throw under pressure (not defensive pressure, situational pressure).
Most likley since it wasnt a lob down the sidelines to let his WR jump for.
Although I'm sure there was PI or defensive holding call missed there. /sarcasm
September 13th, 2009 at 4:36 PM ^
The 3rd down pass play by ND was acceptable...the 2nd down deep ball was just plain dumb.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:55 PM ^
It was stupid, if your going to pass, do a higher %. The 3rd down one was there for the taking.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:32 PM ^
2nd down throw set up the 3rd down play
September 13th, 2009 at 4:19 PM ^
Simply put - Pryor picked the wrong school. Tressel and his offensive staff have absolutely no clue how to properly use a weapon like Pryor. Doesn't help that when the pressure is on, Pryor panics and his mechanics break down. Tressel is intent on turning Pryor into 2006 Troy Smith - a pocket passer who only uses his legs to move around in the pocket. That's embarrassing. The parallels between Tressel and late era Lloyd will increase as he continues to fail to develop his players and continues to handcuff his offense with uber-conservatism.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:24 PM ^
but i'm beginning to wonder if he'd even do well in a spread option offense. tate has to make a lot of reads out on the field, pryor can't even make his progression through his receivers. he has one read each play and if that guy isn't open he throws it away. how would he ever be able to run RR's offense?
September 13th, 2009 at 4:48 PM ^
Obes you bring up a good point. In the pro style offense his athletic ability is not used as much as it should be. In the spread, he would not be able to make decisions in time.
I think the only offense he would be able to reach his full potential in would be the GA Tech triple option. You don't have to make many decisions in the running game because there is no type of "read option". He is big so he could have success running up the middle a la Josh Nesbitt. Passing is nearly nonexistent in the triple option and even when they do pass it is out of one or two receiver sets, which simplifies the decision making.
Now obviously OSU is not going to switch to the triple option and obviously he is not going to transfer to GA Tech but I think he would reach his full potential in that type of offense.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:25 PM ^
great comment
September 13th, 2009 at 5:48 PM ^
There are LOTS of reads in the GT flexbone offense. The reason why people call it the "triple option" is that you first read a lineman to decide whether to hand it to the fullback with the dive and then read a perimeter defender (LB) to decide whether to pitch.
I think there is no way that we can say we wouldn't want Pryor. He would have singlehandedly turned our 3-9 season into at least a 6-6 one. I love Forcier and am excited about this year and the next 2 or 3 as well but I'm not going to make claims that I would want to turn away Pryor. Just because Tressel hasn't exploited his talents as well as they could be doesn't mean Pryor wouldn't have been great in our offense.
EDIT: Obviously we'll never know how he would have done as our quarterback, but I feel pretty confident he would have helped us avoid a losing season last year. Then he could have gotten beat out by Forcier this year :)
September 13th, 2009 at 5:59 PM ^
Yeah I guess you are right about the reads in the GT run game but I guess I worded it wrong in the original comment. Most of his read problems are in the down field passing game therefore he would still thrive in the triple option.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:28 PM ^
Yeah, I'll agree there. I am surprised it doesn't look like his passing game has developed much since last season. Since he's not at Michigan I will definitely say I hope it never improves.
Do I think that's likely? Ehhh... tough to say, but probably not.
September 13th, 2009 at 10:38 PM ^
does navy also run the triple option? i heard the term being thrown around by the commentators against OSU. pretty effective against their D.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:37 AM ^
the smartest kid ever to go to college. He does claim everyone kills people. He is a scrambling qb and he should have chosen a school where the qb runs more. He should have been in an offense where they run the option and is in shotgun the whole game. Being in the shotgun would give him more time to make reads (he needs a lot of time; his brain is just a little slower than most). When he chose OSU he committed suicide. I'm glad that punk went there; I will enjoy watching him fail.
September 13th, 2009 at 8:46 PM ^
TP success in a spread option offense under RR would depend on both TP talent/judgement and RR's coaching. I think RR and his coaches could make TP successful at it; Threet and Sheridan understood the offense, they lacked the athletic ability to execute (esp with the inexperienced OL). The thing that is becoming clear is Tresselball's field-position-centered, "Don'tmake any mistakes" philosophy does not exploit TP's athletic capablities. Expect much more gnashing of teeth from those in Scarlet & Gray.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
I may not be remembering correctly but I thought one of the reasons cited for Pryor's choice of school was that he wanted to be developed into a pocket passing prototypical NFL QB.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:57 PM ^
I remember hearing that too. Anybody who watched the game last night can see that at best, that development is not going well.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:58 PM ^
it's not like dual threat QBs are used to their full potential in the NFL. though it's not like OSU has much track record for doing that.
September 13th, 2009 at 7:42 PM ^
Dual-threat QBs have major problems in the NFL because opposing defenses are generally fast and competent. Generally, most teams have little success running the ball consistently without a great RB. More importantly, scrambling all the time in the NFL is a quick path to severe injury.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:16 PM ^
Agree with this, it's really starting to look like Pryor has the wrong school and (especially) the wrong coach. Sure, we don't know how well he would be doing with a year of RR's spread under his belt, but I can't believe he wouldn't be better than he is now at OSU. I think he's just in the wrong offense. If Pryor makes it to the NFL, it's going to be partly on the strength of his legs and brain, not just his arm.
September 13th, 2009 at 8:33 PM ^
Until the "brains" comment. I just don't think "everybody murders people" is going to go over too well in NFL combine interviews.
September 16th, 2009 at 11:10 AM ^
Haha, good point. Somebody should tell him to keep the "insights" to a minimum during interviews. I meant more his football brains (if he has any).
September 13th, 2009 at 6:01 PM ^
Very very true. Did you see how many times he danced in the backfield trying to set up to pass? He was moving so much, but not getting anywhere. His feet are never set, and that is a very, very hard habit to break, but essential if he wants to be an elite quarterback.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:16 PM ^
when he chose tOSU over Michigan.
All he wanted (and presumably still does) is to play quarterback in the NFL.
Tressel sold him on the idea that he was more able than Rodriguez to make that happen (which might be true). Pryor chose learning to be a better passer in a top program with all american offensive lines, NFL caliber receivers, defenses, the whole package.
Rodriguez was starting in a brand new place that looked to be in decline (which was mostly true).
Tough decision to make, choosing Rodriguez would involve a lot of faith, patience, and brutally hard work (including a likely iffy freshman season)
My guess is that Tressel was an easier choice.
We'll see how that all works out.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:53 PM ^
The problem is that Pryor doesn't appear to have the basic skills needed to even develop him into a pocket passer. Next year will be the litmus test, though - he needs to show some sort of competence by junior year to have any chance.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:54 PM ^
Tressel's conservatism is breathtaking - possibly beyond Lloyd's levels. Carr at least would generally go for it on 4th and goal from the one. When Tressel wimped out there, you just knew it'd come back to bite his team in the ass (not to mention that it sent a lousy message to his offense).
September 13th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
I was at the Michigan game, then came home and watched the second half of OSU-USC. And I'm thinking, Terelle is bigger than Tate, faster(?) and has an extra year of experience. But Tate already has his first big game win, and Terelle does not, and maybe never will. Terelle occasionally looked OK and frequently looked terrible. I was a bit disappointed 18 months ago when Terelle chose OSU over Michigan, but that disappointment is long gone now.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:43 PM ^
Defenses need to keep him in the pocket and make Pryor beat them with his arm and decision making. I'm guessing the Heisman hype and NFL potential talk will subside for awhile.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:50 PM ^
Reading opposing blogs after a weekend like this one is definitely my guilty pleasure. If OSU loses another game and we manage to take them down, people will be calling for Tressel's head...oh wait they already are! Not that I think it is justified, but it is still comical.
September 13th, 2009 at 4:53 PM ^
Knowing mainly only buckeye fans, I would say the majority of them agree that Tressel is on the hot seat. Most have told me that if they lose to Michigan this year and lose a bowl game that they expect to get rid of him. After USC last night, it has only gotten worse with their fans, as a few have told me that they are worried about T.P. as well. I agree that they do struggle against ranked teams and in bowl games but I love how quickly they can turn their back on their team when they've been consistenly at the top of the Big Ten and in the nation.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:04 PM ^
Many us us would give up our left nut to have the success OSU has had the last few years. I think the sweater is a good but not great coach, but you could do considerably worse (I'm wishing for Mark Dantonio and his offensive brilliance to move to Cbus). His team seem to play hard, it's just the luck that blessed the Luckeye's early in the sweaters's years seems to have deserted him.
Will the butteyes actually fire the 4th+ coach in a row (Hayes, Bruce, Cooper, Sweater?).
September 13th, 2009 at 10:03 PM ^
Although this is how they wound up with John Cooper. They fired a decent coach, Earle Bruce, who'd had a bad year and lost four games and tied another. The straw that broke the camel's back was probably the loss to 3-8 Wisconsin.
Prior to 1987, Bruce had one 11-1 season where he'd nearly won the national title, followed by a series of three-loss seasons. Bruce had decent but not stellar records in bowls and against Michigan. (They'd actually fired him before the Michigan game in 1987, and he'd pulled off the upset.)
They hired Cooper in large part because he'd beaten Michigan in the Rose Bowl when he was at Arizona State.
Now, let's suppose they fire Tressel. What are the odds that they wind up with the next Urban Meyer, or the next John Cooper?
September 13th, 2009 at 5:32 PM ^
Please, just do us a favor. If I were really devious I'd suggest we all troll Buckeye blogs and provide a well reasoned justification to get rid of the sweater vest. Ok, maybe it would be more effective if the points aren't "well reasoned" and appeal to low-brow buckstache mentality. Just saying that is what I would do - if I were devious.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:39 PM ^
Hell no. Tressel has a debt that must be paid, and he cannot be removed as Ohio State coach until that happens.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:43 PM ^
OSU fans are friggin clueless...although they are right about Pryor-overrated (as a QB).
September 13th, 2009 at 6:01 PM ^
You are vastly overemphasizing the "camp" of OSU fans that want Tressel fired. The first commentator to bring it up was a Florida fan, and from what I read most of them thought it was a terrible idea.
They are definitely frustrated with Pryor, and with good reason I'd say. As we saw in the "Everybody murders people..." quote, he's just not very smart.
September 13th, 2009 at 10:54 PM ^
investigation before posting (ahh rosenberg). thanks for identifying the original commenter to be a florida fan.
as for pryor, it seemed like he was blaming (or at least showed anger towards) his receivers a lot during the USC game. IME the qb needs to be the leader and take the blame for a lot (most) of the offensive mistakes. this can bring a team together by through trust. the last thing you want to do is piss off your receivers. the more time that passes since he picked OSU, the more i like his decision.
September 13th, 2009 at 10:59 PM ^
While Mathews took the blame for Forcier's interception by stating that he mis-read the coverage, Tate's version was that, although he felt he made the right read, his throw was off. It seems they have each other's back.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:02 PM ^
I tried to cheer for OSU last night, in terms of winning the Big Ten some respect. That's always hard. But it was especially hard not to grin with Pryor so obviously struggling on a day when our freshman QB made all the highlight reels.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:54 PM ^
Brian Kelly to OSU is a scary thought. Cincinnati might be the best team in Ohio.
September 13th, 2009 at 6:58 PM ^
I read somewhere that ND is the job Kelly really wants - which is a good reason to pull for the fat man.
September 13th, 2009 at 7:02 PM ^
Bring on the buckeyes.
I look forward to November 21st.
Terelle Pryor jogs over to the sideline in the first quarter panting, down 14, and Jim Tressel angrily yells, "What's the matter you beat them easily last time!" To which Pryor responds...
"These ain't the same guys."
September 13th, 2009 at 7:23 PM ^
although he "beat" us much in the same way matt barkley beat ohio state last night. he was actually really bad against us (negative rushing yards, 5/13 passing) of course our QB was nick sheridan that game and our OL and RBs were essentially being held together with band aids and bubble gum, but pryor really had very little to do with their win last season. now that he IS their offense...