In the Trenches with Jon Jansen Ep2 feat. S&C Coach Ben Herbert
Episode 2. Ben Herbert talks how he got into S&C and how the players progressed from winter to summer. Jon asked a interesting question comparing Russel Wilson and Shea Patterson. It's certainly worth listening to.
I'm in the camp of people who think Herbert is going to make a big difference this year. Hearing him talk shop makes me even more excited.
Really enjoy listening to Jansen - very energetic personality, you can hear the passion. Thanks for sharing!
That is a cool podcast. Bookmarked, thanks!
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:03 AM ^
I believe he's going a post game podcast on Sundays and a preview on Wednesdays. Lots of good content from Jon coming up. I cant wait to get his perspective on the team and the Oline especially.
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:08 AM ^
Subscribed to this. Thanks for the heads up!
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:44 AM ^
Great listen. A few highlights:
- Jon Jansen talked about the fact that players oftentimes spend more time with the S&C coaches than their position coaches. It's a culture/room where players hang out, blow off steam, that provides a place to vibe and bond with teammates.
- Ben Herbert came from playing at Wisconsin, then coaching there, jumping to Arkansas, and then coming to Michigan
- He said the first part of his "interview" was a 2 hour phone call with Harbaugh where they just bounced around from topic to topic trying to feel out if they saw the world the same way
- His arrival paired nicely with the new facilities
- His office has a massive sectional sofa that can fit big linemen and skill players alike -- hitting on point #1 from above (a place to hang)
- They take pictures of everyone at the start of Winter conditioning and then the end of Summer conditioning, so they can see the difference
- Also video record drills that capture change: IE a drill where the OL pushes a sled + 800 pounds. Coach Herbert talks about the impact of the visual stimulus where those guys can see that they got stronger
- Coach Herbert talks about the fact that there are guys that excel in the weight room who don't want to put the pads on and get violent. Needs to find people that crave that physicality -- especially for the linemen
Good listen.
I watched this ~45 minute presentation a while back where Herbert talks about nutrition, optimizing for posterior chain development (back, glutes, etc). From a few off-season interviews, it seems like the team has really benefited from the changes to nutrition also. Getting more calories from food they actually like to eat.
The presentation he gives is great. If you guys are gym inclined it's definitely worth a watch.
It's my opinion after myself going through a substantial fitness and nutrition change since January, that the benefits of this staff and Abigail the nutritionist could be the extra edge we've been missing.
I keep thinking about that Peppers tweet from a few years ago where he lamented having no good food options...that looks to have been rectified!
August 4th, 2018 at 12:05 AM ^
Thanks for the summary. Still gonna listen. Especially keen after seeing the huge weight gains. Hopefully it's for the better.
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:46 AM ^
I wonder if Herbert will finally be an S&C guy whose regimen actually makes a tangible positive difference. Most everybody around here—including me—got caught up in the Barwis hype, and it certainly didn't by itself turn Michigan into an unstoppable physical machine. Aaron Wellman took a bunch of players out to carry heavy logs in the surf, and it didn't do shit for us at game time. From what I've read, Kevin Tolbert had some less than productive activities for the team to spend time on.
Since Herbert arrived, I've read/heard somewhat cryptic comments about the OL now doing S&C activities that are specifically designed for what they have to do at their position, with the obvious implication that wasn't the case under the previous regime. We'll see whether that will turn out to be hype like all the previous guys.
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:53 AM ^
I think the Wisconsin pedigree speaks for itself. Those guys live to punish people. I'm not saying the Herbert mentality is going to magically turn JBB into Greg Skrepenak or Jake Long. You still have to have natural ability and instinctive footwork, but I do think Herbert will get the most out of what he has to work with. A good OL is more like a family than any other position group, and that breeds all the right kinds of hostlity on game day.
August 3rd, 2018 at 11:06 AM ^
I think any time you change up a routine, you'll see fast results initially. That's why just about every new S&C coach gets rave reviews initially. They put an emphasis on a different thing that maybe wasn't as emphasized before, and players immediately get better at that thing. Whether that translates to the field depends on if the right things are being emphasized or not.
August 3rd, 2018 at 11:35 AM ^
I think we saw the Baraja payoff in Hokes first year. Those lines were never as good after that.
August 3rd, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
Well either we win a lot and people will say it worked, or our skill position players will look slow and people will blame it on him. Or someone will get injured and they will blame it on him. Tiny sample sizes lead to way much getting put on things like strength and conditioning coaches that all know what they are doing.
I think most will find that the addition of Herbert will make a difference. I was a D1 assistant S&C coach and based off what they are doing and the results being observed, he is exactly what Michigan needs right now. The team has been poorly trained/undertrained for awhile now.
"The team has been poorly trained/undertrained for awhile now."
Since you've actually been a real S&C guy, can you describe specifically in what ways they'd been poorly trained?
Tolbert ran a system that was outdated and and didn’t take advantage of an 18-22 year old athletes recuperative abilities. Basically it wasn’t demanding enough. At this age they are ready to adapt to huge changes in their bodies, provided the players aren’t constantly drinking and eating junk food. Our strength program went from a fiat to a Maserati
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^
I really enjoy listening to guys like Jansen and Skene discuss real athletics.
August 3rd, 2018 at 10:49 AM ^
If they can move the ball and get points in the 4th quarter when it counts then Herbert more than earned his keep.
August 3rd, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^
Another interesting point:
EVERYONE ridiculed Mike Gittleson (sp?) as being archaic, ineffective, etc. and the virtual poster child for Lloyd Carr's career closing fade.
Jansen sings his praises loudly & proudly.
As Don has said above; while a crucially important position, it's either way too difficult to measure, or maybe the different ST/CD coaches/styles aren't as program-defining as we always think.
Gittleson was great back in the day. By the end a newer era of S&C coaches passed him by with improved methods.
I sure dudntd ridicule Fittlesoy...on the contrary,I was getting quite pissed here at all the stupidity and Barwis praising because it was dumping on Gittleson . Be careful what you wish for.
August 3rd, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^
I think one area where Herbert may be ahead of previous S&C coaches is the emphasis on nutrition. Based on information from people around the program Abigail O'Connor has gotten rave reviews from parents and players alike for her efforts to alter/tweak/overhaul players emphasis on nutrition.
This is huge. Players can’t eat 2000 calories of junk per day and develop.
his actual training is light years head of where things were too
Herbert>>>Tolbert>>>Wellman>>>Barwis>>>Gittleson...
Did I get that correct with all the experts here??