Status of the team going forward
Our offense was up to par to compete with OSU. We had the ability take it to them with going deep but didn't do so... I do think they took Collins for granted and will miss him next year. Out goes him and Patterson, Bredeson. In comes McCaffrey. OL should be good.
Now on defense. Can't compete with it. Ask any former Bo player what Bo would have said after this game...something akin to "this type of defense might work on the east coast, but cannot handle the size in the Big Ten", and it'd have been enough to move on from it. A real defense to compete with OSU, would be undersized DE Kemp playing OLB, would have two Raquan Williams sized DL, maybe Onwenu and the transfer Hudson who left... Would have a bigger DE. Maybe Paye plays OLB also.
It would have heady players, unlike Hudson, Metellus, and Thomas, the latter whose head wasn't even in the game, blowing assignments. It has a disciplined safety.
If we are stuck with Brown and want a chance, Kemp needs to shed the false weight and go to OLB. Hinton and Onwenu at DT, and we get a full sized DE off the transfer portal.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
December 1st, 2019 at 11:06 AM ^
The issues with the interior DL couldn’t be mitigated at this point. It was a complete recruiting failure a few cycles ago.
Everyone was bitching about it at the time - just like everyone is bitching about CB recruiting now. Roster management is a mess.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:14 AM ^
Harbaugh has been a recruiting failure since he became HC . What CBs are coming in next year? How is d-line recruiting?
December 1st, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
Actually defensive line should be a lot better next year. Two five star freshmen will be sophomores. Don't forget Ojabo, and apparently Welschof has been looking like he'll be a really good player soon. Plus you have Hutchison and Paye and Dwumfour coming back. That could be the best unit on the team next year
December 1st, 2019 at 11:30 AM ^
Hinton and Smith should of got more playing time this year. They rarely played even in blow outs. Who is Khlake Hudsons back up? I never seen Hudson leave the field this year.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
Yes, our Defense will be better next year. Perhaps we will only lose by less three touchdowns or maybe OSU drops less than 49.
I think the point people are trying to make is, our Defense is not going to improve / get better enough to stop OSU and their talent. Period. Harbaugh hasn't been able to recruit elite talent on either side of the ball with regularity.
OSU had the best defensive player in the country (maybe best player period) and the best cornerback in the country on the field, one of the best RB in the country, and their QB that had to transfer to get PT is going to win the Heisman.
We aren't playing with the same cards. You can't expect to win until you have hand that can actually win.
December 1st, 2019 at 5:56 PM ^
Getting a “DT off the transfer portal” should even up the teams...
To your point about the best RB in the country, during The Game they showed his stats next to those of Emmitt Smith. Amazing how similar. We used to get top tier RB’s - maybe because we had top tier linemen. Need to get back to those days (obvious things are obvious).
December 1st, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
No, he hasn’t.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:49 AM ^
"The issues with the interior DL couldn’t be mitigated at this point. It was a complete recruiting failure a few cycles ago.
Everyone was bitching about it at the time"
Yes.
We all knew it the time.
It's probably the single most difficult position to recruit because it's so difficult to spot a difference maker based on HS build and performance, and the number of viable candidates is so low compared to other positions.
If you spend a lot of time and effort on a few guys, and whiff, you have a hole in the middle. It's as simple as that.
OL was not much different. Have people forgotton (Correct me if I'm wrong" that Michigan started 2 FR on OL the first game this year?
Meyer was said it on air yesterday at halftime: It was the biggest size mismatch on both lines he had ever seen, and as the game wears on, and success Michigan had in the first half will be mitigated by being dominated on the lines.
They gave us 8 yard carries in the second half because they had no fear of them, or Michigan.
But don't be too upset. Anyone that watched LSU, Auburn and Alabama yesterday knows that OSU isn't really the problem. They are the top of second tier, which is exactly what the Big Ten is in football: Second Tier. Match up the 1-10 in SEC vs Big Ten for imaginary bowl games and what's your W-L prediction?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:33 PM ^
Lining them up according to SP+ going into this week:
OSU defeats Alabama by 3.6
LSU defeats Penn State by 5.8
Georgia defeats Michigan by 5
Florida defeats Wisconsin by 1.8
Auburn defeats Minnesota by 2.5
Texas A&M defeats Iowa by 2.3
Indiana defeats Missouri by 5.9
Tennessee defeats MSU by 0.5
South Carolina defeats Nebraska by 2.6
Kentucky defeats Illinois by 2.7
So, Big 10 goes 2-8. But it doesn't support your argument that Ohio State is 2nd tier, since they're #1 overall by a wide margin.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:07 PM ^
Next year's DL should be Hinton, (303 pounds, #31 overall recruit), Smith (305 pounds, #105 overall recruit), Hutchinson (268 pounds, #112 overall recruit) and Paye (277 pounds, far outproducing overall ranking). Kemp, Jeter, Dwumfour in sub packages.
Is that a better pedigree than OSU? No.
Should it be good enough to not give up 56 or 62 points? Damn right it should be.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
Half the team will skip the bowl game. The rest will just go through the motions and we get blown out. After that we will hear all kinds of hype from spring practice and how we are getting better every minute of every day. Joe Milton will throw footballs over the mountain etc etc etc. Then we go 8-4 and the season with a shellacking in Columbus.
That's the neverending status.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
10-3.
Michigan is what it always has been. You just are now noticing it.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
Agree. But I'm also curious if this is what you want going forward. If you want something different (say B1G championships every 4-5 years), is our staff/roster constructed to achieve that?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:27 PM ^
Already is doing it. The hope is Ohio state comes back down to us. We aren't going to their level as they are at their ceiling and that ceiling isn't attainable
December 1st, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
"The hope is Ohio state comes back down to us." - Respectfully, hope is not a plan. I'd like to think that Harbaugh, et al have a plan that doesn't rely on things beyond our control.
"that ceiling isn't attainable" - I think I know what you mean, but could you be more specific? Is it upholding academic standards, strict adherence to NCAA rules prohibiting improper benefits, etc.?
December 1st, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
The ceiling isn't attainable to me means, why would the majority of highly ranked players want to go to Michigan when Ohio State has been the superior program for years now? We can't get to their talent level if we can't beat them. And lately, it seems like we can't beat them cause of the talent differential (among other issues like unforced errors)
How do we get to that level without beating them? How do we take recruits from them (like Zach Harrison last cycle) without beating them? How do we beat them without star recruits (like Zach Harrison last cycle)?
I don't think changing Harbaugh with a new face will do anything. Ohio State is just rolling now in terms of recruiting. If we bring in a new coach (barring some elite coach a la Saban), the gap is going to remain the same if not get bigger.
Day replaced Urban and they are still amazing at getting elite recruits. I'm not suggesting Day is a bad recruiter by any means. I'm just saying they have a system in place where all the best players want to go to them, and only some of the best players are interested in coming here. That level only comes to fruition when you've been elite for over a decade.
December 1st, 2019 at 1:43 PM ^
My own biggest problem right now is that I have no idea HOW we can construct something better. Maybe just throw random ideas and random coaches and random bags of money at random recruits and see what happens?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
Yep
Ohio State has had 18 seasons since 1993 with a 85 pct win percentage, Michigan has had 3. These programs aren't at same level and haven't been in over 25 years.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
And OSU has won 2 NCs in that time and UM one. OSU wasn’t even in the CFP last year. What Alabama has done is the anomaly
December 1st, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
I don't blame them! If I was headed to the NFL, I would not play in the fucking Holiday Bowl.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:25 PM ^
There are no first round draft choices on the Defense. Any player who sits out any bowl is hardly helping his draft status. After all, the NFL knows they are losers... being quitters is hardly winning option for them.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
I’m not sure Hudson was the answer and Onwenu is graduating but yes we need bigger, stronger, more athletic D-Lineman.
Kemp is not quick enough to play in space and he gave us all he had on the interior dl and it was a tough ask. I mean only someone who cares deeply about winning would untie another man’s shoes.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
Our running game is a shadow of what OSU's is. Forget who has a better line...Dobbins is flat out elite. Haskins will never be elite. Turner won't either. Only hope is Charbonnet getting better year over year.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:38 AM ^
I can’t agree with this. Out of all positions, our RB recruiting has been elite under Harbaugh. This staff just can’t develop anyone.
December 1st, 2019 at 1:27 PM ^
You can't develop speed.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
Put aside Haskins missing that hole on fourth down, and I'll say Haskins is a very good RB. He took it to OSU and belonged. He's better than Charbonnet, and RB Is not an issue.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:26 PM ^
Haskins got chased down from behind by an Ohio State LB...he’s a good plugger...not a game breaker
Evans is our best RB, elite speed and good hands...interested to see what Gattis can do with him
December 1st, 2019 at 1:22 PM ^
That was painful to watch. Haskins has no up speed. All of his runs would have to play out like the "chased down" scenario in order to experience good yardage. He has moves to get him in position for space but that pull away speed just isn't in his skill tree. Good runner though.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
"Forget who has a better line" Because, uh, . . . ? OSU's O-line v. UM's D-line was a huge mismatch. Forgetting that would be assinine. Think Dobbins would be nearly as productive without that line?
December 1st, 2019 at 11:09 AM ^
Quitcherbichin
December 1st, 2019 at 11:09 AM ^
You're a genius, man. Seriously. These are unique, special thoughts that need to be shared.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
Someone with a connection to Harbaugh please share this post.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
If you took Harbaugh’s exact same Michigan teams, had everyone just change uniforms and put on Stanford gear, they’d win at least 3 out of the last 5 PAC 12 championships and have at least two trips to the playoff. If you had everything about those teams exactly the same and they put on, I dunno, TCU gear, they win at least 2 Big 12 titles and are having dogfights with Oklahoma every year for the conference title.
But they’re not in those conferences which lack the big bad operating at peak recruiting efficiency. They’re in the Big 10, and Ohio State is near the top of the blue chip ratio every season. Ohio State has a level of talent that only 3-4 other programs in the country have, and Michigan’s season is judged against Ohio State. That’s the reality of the situation. It’s not a coaching thing, or even a development thing. They just don’t bring the same level of talent onto campus in the first place.
Going forward, either they make major upgrades to their recruiting operation, or this is gonna be the same result every year. They’re never going to get a game where Ohio stubs their toe for them.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
An elite big 12 offense would light up Michigan’s D, just like OSU.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
Oklahoma would definitely have years where they’d get Michigan’s D in a big way, but Michigan would return the favor. the rest of the Big 12 doesn’t have the horses to do that to any of the defenses Michigan has had over the rest of the last 5 years, and that gets exposed every year in non con when those vaunted Big 12 offenses look pretty ordinary against better talented teams. It’s a mid major league with a sleeping giant that seems in a coma and then Oklahoma, who recruits about on Michigan’s level with better QB recruiting.
December 1st, 2019 at 5:29 PM ^
Better QB recruiting? Baker, Kyler, and Hurts all transferred to OU. Maybe we need to improve our transfer portal recruiting.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:43 AM ^
Really?! What if you keep the entire roster and give them a coach that can develop talent? Do you really think a competent coach couldn’t have more success with out current roster than Harbaugh has?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
They do develop talent. They’ve put a lot of guys in the NFL.
There’s just not enough high level talent coming onto campus in the first place. You cannot polish a bunch of 3-4 stars into being good enough to beat a well coached team full of 5 stars. If Ohio State was more like Georgia and had a high blue chip ratio but had obvious offensive coaching philosophy issues Michigan could exploit, it would be different. Ohio is operating at peak efficiency schematically/recruiting/development and Michigan is just so far behind in recruiting. The idea that you could just “max out” the other two areas and keep going with subpar recruiting just doesn’t work in the Big 10 as long as Ohio is doing what it’s doing.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
The mental mistakes yesterday had nothing to do with talent, this team is undisciplined.
Sure, recruiting better is always a good thing, but it is going to require a better recruiter. JH's best team was with Hoke's guys. There's no reason to thnk JH is going to just start recruiting better.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
When you’re over your head and you know it, you make mistakes. Teams with massive talent mismatches end up making their opponent look frazzled and undisciplined. It is extremely difficult to maintain composure when the realization sets in that you’re just not good enough.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:30 PM ^
Like being in the same division as Alabama tha last ten years.
or put these teams in the ACC cough Clemson cough and they go 2/4 years
December 1st, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
Here's the status of the program going forward:
Will be a good, sometimes great on occasion program that beats inferior or similar teams and loses to better teams.
They won't win championships, because as long as OSU/PSU are in the division, they just won't.
Michigan will be like they have always been for 15+ years: a name brand that wins nothing of note.
For a long time, the fan base has had unrealistic expectations of what Michigan is. Now, we can all accept what they are.
It is absolutely crazy how polar opposite the football and basketball programs are. Basketball wins titles, beats teams they shouldn't, says absolutely nothing, and gets no hype.
Football does not win titles, does not win as an underdog, talks a ton of shit, and gets a ridiculous amount of hype every year.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:22 AM ^
We'll need to get 5 starts recruits in football. After that, the coaching staff must develop them into Heisman candidate like what's happening at Ohio State, and on both sides of the ball.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Yes, the football team has underachieved for a long time now, but given our resources we should expect to be a top 5ish program regardless of what OSU is doing.
They have a well oiled machine operating down there and they get the best athletes in the country to play for them. At some point we're going to have to make the changes necessary to complete with them, or late Hoke era apathy will set it.
For how much tickets cost, fans expect excellence and they should have it.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
Exactly right.
There is more than enough resources and name recognition to be an elite program.
It is not that Michigan lost yesterday. It's that they did not belong on the same field. PSU, who is more or less the same as Michigan, went into OSU and damn near pulled off the upset.
This is not acceptable, period.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
PSU did not almost pull off an upset - they were horribly overmatched and gifted 3 critical turnovers, including Fields fumbling as we was crossing the goal line.
Otherwise, that was a 4 TD blowout.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:14 PM ^
... But it wasn't.
It was 21-17 at the end of the 3rd quarter. Don't really give a crap about all the other "things" that happened. That's football.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
Lsu, Bama,,Ohio State, Georgia and Clemson have half the 5 stars in all of cfb. Those are more or less the best 5 football programs overall.
Pretty much sums things up. You want to join the elite top 5 then bring in the elite talent. Expecting them to do that now is unrealistic as no one at Michigan levels recruiting wise is in that top group either
December 1st, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^
Huh, suddenly stars matter on this board...
Just wait though, come the off-season everyone will be circle-jerking about how Harbaugh and company are so good at identifying unknown talent, how stars don’t matter, what on earth could the recruiting services possibly know, to trust the coaches that the most recent 2-3 star / unranked offer we made is actually a 5* in disguise and we’re just the only program smart enough to discover said player, and that our recruiting is perfectly fine and there’s nothing to worry about.
Then anyone who dares disagree will be accused of being “Maizen” in disguise and calls for bans will start.
Then we’ll hear a ton of hype coming out of spring practice and how the team is super fast and Don Brown’s never seen a better defense before.
Then eventually we’ll get to The Game 2020. Harbaugh will get blown out again, and then we can all start this exact cycle all over again!
Won’t that be fun...