Per Sports Illustrated- new 12 team playoff being discussed
According to sports illustrated a new 12 team proposal is being talked about. Same as before but one difference, 1 g5 team is guaranteed a spot.
https://www.si.com/college/2021/11/11/college-football-playoff-12-teams-alternate-format-proposed
I personally think it should be a very standard format. 16 teams, all 10 conference champions qualify. 6 at large bids should be plenty to take care of any oddities any given year. A true playoff should have a defined guaranteed path of inclusion for all teams within that sport. Any format being decided by polls and committees is simply an invitational. This allows teams to settle it on the field. I also believe this can help the sport as a whole in the future. Most seem to look at these proposals and only consider them from our perspective today, not considering that a change like this to the system can have major effects on the future. I would think with a little more inclusion we could see much better competition down the road.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:24 PM ^
Lost me at 10 conference champions.
8 with Power 5 conference champions guaranteed. 3 at large
First-round games played at the home field of higher-ranked team. Semifinals and finals to be played at rotating venue (ala Final 4 in basketball)
November 11th, 2021 at 10:32 PM ^
I didn’t used to be a proponent of including all 10, but I’ve decided (for myself at least) that I was being shortsighted. FBS has ten conferences, a true playoff that’s fair to the sport should allow all ten the chance. Now obviously right now a lot of those teams aren’t going to win much, but what if say in 1970 this system was created? Where would the sport be now? Give the rest of the sport a chance and in time I would think you would see increased competition.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:09 PM ^
I can support this based on one variable...can we say ND is automatically left out if not in a conference?
November 11th, 2021 at 11:14 PM ^
no. so a team like northern illinois would get into the playoff over a team like michigan, who beat the crap out of them? no thanks.
i think 8 team playoff is fine. 4 or 5 auto bids. that leaves 3 or 4 at large. so an undefeated cincy would get in from a smaller conf. no other small conf team deserves it this year.
November 12th, 2021 at 3:59 AM ^
In a 16 team scenario, a decent Michigan team is basically never going to get left out.
November 12th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
Depends on what you consider 'decent', but if there are autobids for all conferences, a P5 non-champ would have to be Top 10-ish to get in, since 5-6 slots will be taken by champs of weaker conferences. Especially if there are upsets in conference championship games and some autobids are filled by 3-, 4-, even 5-loss teams.
November 12th, 2021 at 6:14 AM ^
No, you wouldn't have to worry about that because they probably wouldn't be playing each other in a 16 team playoff. This would effect how many regular season non conference games everyone plays, so I'm guessing with the current system teams would be playing almost 16 games, and that ain't gonna work.
November 12th, 2021 at 11:07 AM ^
I hate subjective determinations for playoffs in any sport, and I also hate including more teams in a playoff just to make it exciting. Including "at-large" teams really just gives a second chance to teams that couldn't get it done in the regular season. I think any playoff should be conference champions only. If you didn't win your conference, then you're not the best team in your conference, and if you're not the best team in your conference, then you're definitely not the best team in the country, so why invite you to a playoff designed to find the best team in the country?
I also think it's time to make a decision to either include G5 schools in DI or not. Divisions exist in the college athletics landscape to create levels at which various schools are willing or able to compete. If G5 simply isn't at the same competitive level as P5, then they are effectively a separate division and should have their own playoff and championship. If not, then they should have equal footing with every other DI conference.
All that to say that I want a 10-team playoff, conference champions only. Not only is it logical and fair to all competitors, it would also return the emphasis to the regular season, discourage superconferences, and encourage scheduling good nonconference opponents as functional exhibition games for the $$$ and fan excitement. And it screws Notre Dame.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:43 PM ^
What happens when you win a garbage conference? How does that team deserve to get in over a team like Michigan just because they didn’t play anybody?
November 12th, 2021 at 5:13 AM ^
In 50 years college football won't look anything like it does today.
Your point is ridiculous. The disparity between teams NOW is far greater than the disparity between teams then (when it comes to money).
In 50 years you're more likely to see an FBS 1 comprised of the top, say 60 programs. And an FBS 2 comprised of the next 60.
And in this 10-game scenario...how many teams do you actually think are going to get enough money to change the course of history and the entire university?
Eastern Michigan would have to win the MAC 20 years in a row for the right to get blown out by Bama 20 years in a row in order to get the kind of money they need to change that program.
Is that realistic? Of course not.
In a 64/68 team mens basketball tournament. With MORE teams and MORE opportunities. Where have you seen this effect?
Gonzaga. End list.
Okay, maybe Wichita St. parlayed some success into an American Conference offer and Butler got to the Big East.
But where are all of these seismic shifts? And again, that is waaay more teams.
UMBC, you really think that one historic win is going to change something in the grand scheme of things?
...and again, just off the nature of the sport UMBC is closer to UVA than Eastern Michigan football is to Alabama football in 2021. It's not even a comparison.
November 12th, 2021 at 5:28 AM ^
I didn’t make any predictions about the future. I said we do not know what the landscape will look like in 50 years, which we don’t. Did you ever think Gonzaga would be the number 1 team in college basketball 2 years running and basically a powerhouse 25 years ago? I’m guessing probably not. I never would have thought back in the early to mid 90s that Wisconsin would have a better 25 years than us, or MSU would make the playoffs before we did, or we wouldn’t win a Big ten championship for going on 20 years, that Purdue would have a better record than us vs OSU in the 2000’s etc. My point is either scrub the rest of the FBS (sad IMO) or make a real playoff. Simple as that.
ETA: you even start your argument acknowledging that in 50 years football won’t look the same, just that it will look however your mind has decided. Neither of us know man, that should be obvious.
November 12th, 2021 at 5:36 AM ^
No. I didn't think Gonzaga would be the #1 team in college basketball 25 years ago.
But again, that is ONE team.
That's my point.
And there in a sport with 6 fewer players on the playing surface, meaning they're more likely to compete. They're in a sport that has had 64, now 68 slots into the post season...not 16.
And with all that...one team.
For every Gonzaga, I'll counter with Boise St. or UCF.
Did YOU think either of those schools were going to be where they are 25 years ago?
Of course you didn't. They had sustained success over a period of time and TV revenues spiked when they had it.
It had nothing to do with their levels of access either. But even if it did...you can find a small handful of BASKETBALL teams. So if the result you're looking for hasn't happened in BASKETBALL (outside of a small handful)...how the hell is it going to happen in FOOTBALL?
November 12th, 2021 at 5:54 AM ^
How about teams such as Florida state, Tennessee, Nebraska, USC, Texas, Miami, umm Us, either struggling or just downright being bad for extended periods of time? 25 years ago the idea of Michigan not having a winning record and missing a bowl game sounded impossible. I don’t know how old you are so maybe you don’t remember these times. I also named more than one team. Wisconsin and MSU in our own conference, Oregon in the p12, Clemson running the ACC, teams like Baylor and TCU being closer the past decade to the playoffs than Texas.
November 12th, 2021 at 5:30 AM ^
You would not see increased competition.
What you would see is more decent P5 teams getting in and a small handful of new UCF/Boise St./Cincinnati types pop up.
Hooray, all of that so San Diego St., Charlotte, App St. and Liberty can be legitimate power 5 level teams in 50 years.
Again, I appreciate the inclusivity, but this is just being edgy for the sake of being edgy.
If you REALLY want to give those teams a chance? Put all revenue from college football into a pot and distribute every dollar evenly across all 115+ teams.
That's asinine, but it's the only way to even come close to the result you're looking for.
Texas pulls in over $235M a YEAR! UTEP? Less than $35M.
50 years of access to a playoff via winning the conference (don't forget, you still have to do that part)...isn't closing that gap by even a little bit. It's reasonable think that Texas will reach $300M before UTEP gets to $50M.
What you're asking is impossible. There's no butterfly effect...give them access now and in 50 years we're going to have #2 Old Dominion hosting #15 Michigan.
November 12th, 2021 at 6:10 AM ^
The NCAA tournament also used to be much smaller. Are you really going to say that by increasing it to the 68 teams it now stands at that we haven’t seen an increase in competitive teams? We saw Butler play in back to back championship games, almost winning also. Gonzaga came out of nowhere to turn into a legitimate power. Even just last year long time blue blood Baylor won the national title. There are 350 teams in division 1 basketball and 68 slots in the tournament plus others like the NIT and CBI. FBS football currently has 130 teams and a whopping 4 playoff spots. Those 4 spots don’t even cover the number of power conferences (5)
November 12th, 2021 at 8:46 AM ^
Hard pass. Not in favor of a 3-4 loss MAC team keeping out a 2 loss P5 team. Then god forbid one of the 11-2 type teams from C-USA or Sun Belt lose their conference title game to a 7-5 team.
In 2019 the MAC champ was 8 win Miami (OH). In 2018 it was 8 win NIU. The current first place teams in the MAC divisions are NIU (7-3 and was blown out by UM) and a tie between Kent State/Miami (both are 5-5). Absolutely no reason to guarantee these conferences a spot in the playoff at the expense of actual good teams.
In a 16 team playoff, you can agree to two G5 champions at most. The rest are eligible for at large spots still. But there’s a massive gap between the teams eligible for at large spots and G5 teams. Absolutely no justification to keep them out for a bad conference champ.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:31 PM ^
This format checks all the boxes that I have been hearing for years. Regular season should matter, check you get home field advantage. All power 5 conferences should be in, check. Other at large non power 5 should get in, check because the UCF, Cincinnati, etc. teams were ranked in the top 8 and I believe would have made an 8 team playoff in the past. 8-teams in the best format but it will probably be 12 because somehow they will figure out how to get more money out of 12.
November 12th, 2021 at 11:41 AM ^
You make it sound like it will be complicated physics. They'll get more money out of 12 since they'll be 4 more games. I like 12, but i think either 8 or 16 could work as well.
November 12th, 2021 at 6:04 AM ^
Yeah I think 12 is too many so 16 is ridiculous. With the OP’s proposed idea how many years will we have an unranked team in? It’s not a good idea. The playoffs need to be exclusive not a participation ribbon, that’s what bowls are for.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:47 AM ^
Eight is plenty. All P5 champions get in. Three at large. If any independent team finishes 5th or above in the last CFP poll they automatically get an at large spot. The highest ranked group of 5 team gets an at large spot provided they finish at least in the top 15. Play the first round on campus. This doesn't need to be difficult. I do not think it will change parity all that much at the outset but it is at least a step in the right direction.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:27 AM ^
Two things need to happen:
Big 12 is downgraded from a P5 team once Texas and Oklahoma leave to make it P4. The remaining husk of the Big 12 should not get an auto-bid
Any conference with an autobid has to get rid of divisions and make the two best teams play each other in the conference championship. This isn't college bball where the best regular season team will still automatically make the playoffs even if there is an upset in the final. If there is autobids you can't have it taken by an 8-4 team over a 11-1 team
November 13th, 2021 at 4:26 PM ^
Texas hasn't won a B12 game in a month. Hasn't won the conference since 2009. OSU, KSU, Baylor, TCU all have more recent titles than Texas.
Why do we downgrade the conference when they leave?
November 12th, 2021 at 8:40 AM ^
I don't disagree at all about having first round games at college home fields, as I think it would be great for the game. But I feel like I saw some article within the last month where that concept already got severe pushback. I want to say from the bowl committees, which I can't say I blame them because playoff expansion hurts their games considerably.
Still hope it happens, but its a long road to hoe for something like that.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:26 PM ^
No matter what is proposed and agreed upon, someone will complain.
November 12th, 2021 at 6:39 AM ^
Pretty sure we can add this to the whole death and taxes thing....
November 12th, 2021 at 7:55 AM ^
Speaking of which, the CFP should take the extra money they get from a 12-team playoff and provide lifetime health insurance to the players: https://twitter.com/Avik/status/1459134071729266692
November 11th, 2021 at 10:27 PM ^
The more teams we add to this playoff the less meaningful the games are in the regular season. Like this year for example, 16 teams means the psu, Maryland, and osu games certainly don’t mean as much because you could still lose and not even make your conference championship and still get into the playoff?
That’s an extra month of games too, possible 16 games played vs 12-13 now.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:50 PM ^
I don't see anyone talking about a 16-team playoff, but to the larger point, why is that such a big deal? If Alabama loses to Georgia, there is no way they will make a 4 team playoff. They're still 10-2 Bama, perfectly capable of competing for a National Championship. The 2016 Michigan team could have played with anyone in America. I thought they should have been given a chance to prove it on the field.
Imagine if in college basketball only some P5 champions and one at large made the tournament. Or there was only one wild card in pro football.
I think the point is to not make every single week an absolute do or die. In no other sport does a team have to be absolutely perfect to compete for a championship. I don't see why that should only be the standard in division I college football.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:17 PM ^
Could you imagine the NFL, or any other professional sport under the current FBS system? It’s insane. I think it’s about time we all agree that it’s a very broken and backwards system. The only reason a 16 team playoff system sounds crazy to people now is because we’ve somehow lived with the worst system in major sports for like what,150 years now? If anything it’s crazy to me that somehow it’s lasted this long and wasn’t fixed a long ass time ago.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:29 PM ^
I do think there is a way to do a 16 team playoff if you integrate conference championship games into the national tournament itself. Would require a lot of conference realignment, but it could be done.
November 12th, 2021 at 4:04 AM ^
I wish I could upvote this more than once.
It’s about time we fix the most ass-backwards postseason in major athletics. Literally no other sport does what FBS college football does. If you want to say it’s what makes college football great, then fine. But in my opinion it’s lead us to where we are currently - competitive unbalance.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:14 AM ^
8 team playoffs would mean 2 teams play 15-16 games...4 teams play 14-15 games and 8 teams play 13-14 games ... every team that makes a bowl game is playing 13-14 already
8 teams seems perfect ,(no byes) ... because right now its very possible a 13-0 Oklahoma is left out. Having a power house "brand name" from major conference go 13-0 and not get in ,means this 4 team system is broken
November 12th, 2021 at 4:35 PM ^
The exact same argument was made against going from the BCS to the CFP.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:28 PM ^
Anything but the current situation.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:30 PM ^
except the previous situation
November 11th, 2021 at 11:08 PM ^
or the one before that
November 11th, 2021 at 10:38 PM ^
Disagree on the 10 champions, but 12 team sounds like a good format. I think 8 teams - P5 conference champions, plus 3 at large is perfect. But 12 is definitely better than 4.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:43 AM ^
But any argument for 12 teams eliminates the argument against 16. Just go to 16 and be done with it-if the 'agreed to" option is 12.
Each of us hold our personal biases in this regard. I grew up with Indiana single class basketball. Many small schools took down many giants, every year, and occasionally made it all the way the final four. I know first hand the buzz this created in our little town of Middlebury-even when we drew one of the largest schools in the state, Elkhart, in the "sectional" pairings-and BTW, Elkhart was on our regular season schedule too. "Not having a chance" did not diminish the effort or the quality of play. The reality of this "no excuse" system drove the quality of Indiana high school basketball play to the top. I got to play against several of these "small schoolers" who became all-staters, Indiana Hall of Famers and even college All-Americans and NBAers. Our very tiny school, when I was a senior, knocked off Gary Yoder and his Westview team-Gary went on to star at Cincinnati and get drafted by the Bucks...still brings a smile to me and my teammates-fifty years later.
Offer as large of a window of opportunity as is reasonably possible.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:41 PM ^
So the difference from the original proposal is that instead of the 6 highest rated conference champs, this one guarantees each power 5 conference a slot. Personally, I think the original is better. If two G5 champs are ranked higher than a P5 champ, they should get the slots.
My bigger concern is continuing to rely on committee rankings that seem to be more and more subjective and hard to rationalize. The outcomes of games would matter more than the eye test.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:52 PM ^
Regarding your concern, that’s why having a clear defined path to your playoff spot-winning your conference-is important. It’s cut and dry, win and you’re in. If you didn’t win your conference then you have a chance at one of the 6 at large bids. That’s what a playoff is. With this structure moving forward over time we should see some different teams pop up in the smaller conferences around the country creating more competition. I feel like this idea sounds crazy because of where the sport is now but really it should have been this way a long time ago. If it was I’d be willing to bet the landscape would look different than it does now.
November 11th, 2021 at 10:42 PM ^
Fine print:
"Will be implemented in the 2043 season"
November 11th, 2021 at 10:56 PM ^
Sports Illustrated is only 2 months late to reporting on this.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:05 PM ^
“The model is almost identical to the one a subcommittee introduced over the summer—aside from one change. The alternate model grants automatic bids to the Power 5 champions plus the highest-ranked Group of 5 champion. The subcommittee’s proposal gives automatic access to the six highest-ranked conference champions. Each format completes the field with six at-large selections based on rankings.”
November 11th, 2021 at 11:01 PM ^
More teams. Period. 16 makes sense to me. 12 is better than 4.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:04 PM ^
4 teams are plenty. Two of the final 3 games are always blowouts anyway.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:19 PM ^
This was my initial reaction to the idea a while back, but I’ve gone away from it now with more time and thought. More teams making the playoff each year might actually help spread some of the recruiting wealth.
I’m still open to the number of teams, but either 8 or Klatt’s 12 with byes for the top 4 seems ideal.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:20 PM ^
I think part of the problem is the 4 team playoff itself perpetuates the consolidation of talent amongst the top 5 or 6 programs in college football. Elite recruit$ go to the schools where they know they'll be in the playoff (and make some good money). Expanding the playoff will (to some degree) more evenly distribute the talent across more teams which in turn makes for a more interesting season to watch.
As it is, you can take a quick look at Bama/Clem/OSU/UGA's roster and already know who is going to win the National Championship.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:28 PM ^
I agree. To further that thought, what would it look like if for the last 50 years this was the system? I would think that talent would be more spread out and better competition overall. The problem is that now it’s so far out of control the idea of actually giving all ten conferences a spot sounds crazy to most people. I was one of them. Why not try and fix it now and understand that none of know what’s going to happen 50 years from now.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:53 PM ^
I think you would have to at minimum remove a non-con game, which would be fine for Michigan, but those games are what plays for Western Michigan's football program. I think it would be hard to get the G5 on board with removing one of their big pay checks.
November 11th, 2021 at 11:59 PM ^
I have no way of knowing how much a playoff appearance would be worth, but I would think it would be pretty valuable. I believe this revenue is shared amongst the conference.