Funk and Borges should feel some heat on their asses, if all of the improvement ison the defensive side of the ball
The Snowflake Thread: Coaching
i generally agree with you. what I can't get past when people are arguing about coaching is how can we be undefeated at home and have no quality wins on the road? How is that not coaching?
Winning on the road is hard, and every team brings it for Michigan. Inability to win on the road is indicative of youth and inexperience, IMO.
There are a lot of young teams that win on the road against quality opponents every year...I dont completely agree witht hat sentiment. A lot of it has to do with coaching/prep too...
Which teams are those?
Incidentally, I saw Hoke wearing a headset at times today, so it turns out that that is not, in fact, the solution to our football team's woes.
We also ran a bubble screen and spread it out...
Well there's your problem: MGoBlog whined so much about bubble screens and headsets that Hoke / Borges finally gave in. Look where that got us.
I saw one screen. They attempted another screen and Gardner had no one to throw it to if I remember right. The one that did work, however, got like 8 or 9 yards.
And they really didn't spread it out either. I don't see the hestitation to go 3 or 4 wide most downs. Plenty of pro style NFL offenses do it.
The other was tunnel screen they have used with Gallon frequently. I don't necassarily think bubble screens would have helped though, since MSU plays press coverage so much. Not like the opponents UM saw earlier in the year who were laying back and daring them to do it.
"snowflake" mean? Is it a term of deprecation? Should I feel deprecated just for posting here?
I don't get a lot of the inside terms here. I also don't understand the kittens thing either. I've asked this before but never get a straight answer.
One of the Mods over a year ago got tired of all the threads created after a game, where people, instead of joining a discussion in an on-going thread where the points they wanted to make had already been raised, decided that their point of view was unique and so insightful that it deserved its own thread. The Mod essentially said, despite what your mother or kindergarten teacher told you, you are not a special snowflake, so stop cluttering up the board with your inane threads.
Some of the coaching calls in this game were atrocious. Why Borges kept calling the zone read when it would lose like 5 yards every time is beyond me.
However, Gardner simply had no time to throw the ball. Narduzzi found the holes to blitz through constantly, and whenever the line held up their end of the bargain for a moment, Fitz would get blown up trying to block.
If I had to blame a coach for this game, it's Funk. He hasn't gotten these guys ready to play it seems for two years now.
However, I mostly blame the tire fires that are the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes.
Well, the zone read didn't work, you are correct. But we ALL know we can't run power. So what do we do? Not run at all? We barely did.
I beg of someone, Nyone, to come up with a good offensive identity for a team with a line that is this bad! Its impossible. Now tweak that identity in any way you can to make that offense, with this line, beat a defense like MSUs. Come on guys.
I get where you're coming from. But any coach who calls power play action on 2nd and 15 late in the game is a fucking idiot. Bullough was never going to bite on the play action.
The second half was a lost cause because Borges didn't call a spade a spade. Spread the D out and go 4-5 wide. It was the only way to keep the aggressive D honest.
beginning of the game. But I count Gallon, Funchess, then Jackson, Chesson. Then who? Dileo hurt. There is no one else, is there?
I remember seeing that play and thinking what the heck were they doing there. Why would the defense bite on a play action call on 2nd and long. All it did was delay the speed at which Gardiner could get rid of the ball. If I recall he got sacked before he could even turn around and locate a receiver. A real head scratcher there! Borges must really think he is the smartest guy in the room.
Sure, I understand. However, what would be your first choice for play after the interception? Borges chose the zone read. Once that failed for the tenth time of the game that drive was already done.
We also have moved the ball through the air on them.
The offense was continously in 2nd/3rd and long situations.
Yet he won 11 games his first year with basically the same players. This team has not grown under hoke, in fact, they have regressed.
This absolutely is not the same team. In 2011 we had guys like Mike Martin, RVB on the DL, and guys like Molk on the OL. Odds are we wont have a capable center like Molk again until Kugler is ready.
Glasgow's a "capable" linemen. Not "capable like Molk", but he's capable, in fact he's surprisingly good for a walkon. If he were the only problem, we'd be ok. The same goes for everyone else on the line.
it's having three guys side by side with no experience that's the problem.
Not sure you're right about Glasgow.
You're last sentence is the most accurate statement on the board today.
Just wait until 2015 everyone.
So Sad, but so True. 2015, ouch
to get a decent road win?
Not sure. Everyone keeps saying to wait until then.
Enjoy this season and the next. Its a lot better than 2008-2010. There are some good things to cheer about. There will be some bad things to boo about. I'll bet there will be some boo-worthy things in 2015, too. I know we booed at times in 1997.
We're fans, guys. We cheer and boo. This will always be the case. Just be grateful that there are more reasons to cheer than boo right now, which is a lot nicer of a situation than the previous regime. Did we forget about that already?
I am deflated, but trying to deal with reality tonight. Hats off to MSU, they beat us in every phase of the game and showed that as of now they have better team, coaches and athletes. I have been critical of Dantonio, but he is the real deal and, while I have been critical of his demeanor he has delivered.
MSU defense is really good and owned us. Can't blame Borges today, they just stopped us on every play that mattered, no matter the play call. Gardner did not have a chance, he hung in well in my opinion. Their front seven just manhandled us- even Lewan and Schofield. That's not coaching, nothing was working when they decided to bring pressure. MSU defense was just too good and disciplined for any of our lineman to block on key plays. MSU was just pinning their ears back and was too strong, quick and mixed rushes up that our O line was dazed and confused. I don't think many college o line fronts could have handled them today. Not gonna get down on our young guys, it was just varsity against JV, they will grow up. Their were some chances earlier on to change the tone of the game. The implosion after the interception really put the nail in the coffin. I thought the failed drive due to the botched snap was the turning point. Couldn't understand why Fitz was left in as opposed to a fullback to help pass block since running was out of the question. Evidently , none of our tailbacks can block better than Fitz, which is not good. Our Defense played well enough considering they were put in bad position all day and were on the field constantly after the first quarter. Need to get ready for Nebraska. MSU has the best chance of beating OSU in the Champ game. Hope they do. This was clearly the best team we have played so far, and, I still believe we are still a good team despite today's whooping. I will be optimistic, win the next three and surprise OSU.
Yes...coaching. No time out call just before their TD pass at the end of the first half. They went hurry up. Don't tell me what happened on the plat either. We needed to call a time out and our coaches did not
And saying "good job" or "come on guys"...
What else does he do during an actual game?
I wonder if Al Borges ever watches other games and compares them to hours. I hope watches other offenses and sees what they do that is successful. Then watch our offense and see how horrible it is. And figure out a better way to do things.
He really needs to look at the plays where the o line blocks. .. And then call those plays.
First, it is sort of interesting that Dantonio said this week in his radio interview spots called "inside the huddle" that offensive linemen ideally should not be playing at all until they are at least redshirt sophomores. Reason: the playbook is larger for them than other players on offense, including quarterback. They have to know protections based on defensive alignments pre-snap and be able to adjust mentally in a precise way as the defense moves around. One false move and everything is blown up. Especially against pressure fronts.
Second, I knew many State fans who wanted Narduzzi out the door back in 2009. State's defense couldn't get out of it's own way that season. His rise to genius status was far from smooth within that fan base.
We are ticked off and don't want to deal with another year of State fan belittling Michigan football, but it's the price of admission to having a consistent program with a pipeline of steady talent again.
Continuity. Patience in letting the recruits grow and develop into experienced upper classmen. We saw it on display today from the opponent.
If Hoke and the staff ultimately prove to deficient, the pipeline will be up and running. Bring in a better staff for the coronation.
I think we must have had some kind of Vulcan Mind Meld thing going on.
I read your earlier posts and have been building off your themes. It's more big picture viewpoint, but the Michigan we all want was forged through a big picture approach.
Point of fact, State sucked in 2009 (year 3 of that coaching staff).
Most of the folks on the board are not old enough to remember the last time Michigan had to rebuild through establishing a consistent talent pipeline and program at the same time. That is because it has never really happened. Bo even acknowledged Elliot left him good veteran football players with more on the way. Rich was in the process of attempting it (probably for the first time in program history) but had the rug pulled prematurely. Maybe for the best, maybe not.
The goal is long-term sustainability. If we can avoid a meltdown as a fan base and brush off the verbal crud we'll get at work with State fan lurking around every cubicle, we're going to end up pleased most likely.
He offered nothing new, nothing different, nothing special. At one point I really wondered if he was sleeping up in the press box or maybe he left to get a sandwich and got lost on the way back because I didn't see anything new until 10 minutes to go in the fourth quarter. That was Gardher's first 2 step drop and throw. I came to this university a long time ago and this was the most pathetic coaching performance ever, bar none. Time for an ultimatum...
We ran bubble screens, we went out of the gun, we threw the worst Waldo, we ran hurry up - in short all the things that this blog has blasted Al for not doing. None of it worked because the guards and center are turrible. If the middle of your line can't even slow them down nothing will work. Ever.
If you want to blast Funk fine. That Dude should be gone. You want to hold Al accountable for Funk not doing his job, OK. But play calling had nothing to do with today. It was all about three positions getting beat on every damn play.
The other wr screen was not a bubble screen. Also I didn't see hury up except for on the last drive, when it became a nessacity. I don't think Al called a terrible game, but I think it is a bit disgenous to suggest they ran some of those things more than once or twice or that he couldn't have done any better.
First, my post was to the user who claimed this was all on Borgess. So you are kind of using my post to create a strawman, but, who cares, I'll bite.
I am not going to re-live the play by play with you. I just don't have the heart. However, my recollection is that Al ran more of those plays than you give them credit for. Most of the time the play was blown up before it developped.
I do think that calling one or two or ten more screens of any variety would not have helped. Those plays are really constraints to punish a defense for playing their corners off and guarding against the deeper routes. For the most part, State didn't really play off. They were in press a lot so a bubble wasn't open. So, if the corners are up, why not run past them and hurt them down the field? Because we couldn't. With one or two exceptions, Devin never had the time to wait for Gallon or Funchess or Chesson to get down field. He was already burried with Kalis standing there in a clean uniform after blocking air.
Devin is not accurate enough or quick enough at reading defenses to dink and dunk. When we tired, he was under pressure before Funchess could get five yards down field.
It is really popular on this board to just chalk it up to Al or Fitz. But we have much deeper problems. Borgess can't play guard or center, and Green isn't going to run through three or four unblocked dudes. The cold, hard fact is that this team is fatally flawed by a very inexperienced interior line whose poor play has forced changes which have deprived it of any chance to "gell." This isn't getting fixed by a different RB or better play calling or Hoke wearing a headset. It will take a year or two. The problem is that November 2013 is right now and Uncle Urban is licking his chops. In my opinion, it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
with your statement of multiple bubble screens since that wasn't the case. I actually agree they would not have worked given MSU's press coverage. The only real problem I had with Borges in this game was all the pointless PA faking they did, since MSU never had to respect the run.
Sorry, my bad.
I agree about the PA FWIW. I commented on one of the threads this week that they should forget about that stuff. Fitz tends to sell the fake too long when he needs to pick up a blitz. We miss Vinny Smith on 3rd down.
You're wrong. Watch the game. As a coach you understand what you have and what they have and you make adjustments. It's called a game plan. And you have contingencies. That didn't happen. Gardner was frustrated not because the game plan wasn't working but because the game planner wasn't thinking. Are you really telling me you don't understand this? Because I can only explain it to you...I can't understand it for you.
There is no way you can game plan around having 60 percent of your line who can't block. We were in the gun, trying to throw short passes from max protect and our QB still had under two seconds to throw.
Look, if you want to pretend that this team is awsome and that we win that game if Al calls more bubble screens or whatever, cool with me. But you are lying to yourself. This team has problems that a game plan can't fix.
As far as the snark in your post, whatever dude. You're like, so internet cool.
I hurt your feelings. There's a 2 step drop and a 5 step drop. Many of the sacks were the result of coverage not necessarily o-line issues so shorten the routes. I said nothing about bubble screens. the bottomline in my mind is that he had a poor game plan just like he did against U Conn, Akron, ohio, Nebraska...you think it's the players and I think it's the coaches. Furthermore, David Brandon needs to think less about fly-overs and blue bracelets and more about the 'product'
I think its both players and coaches. I just think on the particular point of play calling, not only did Borges have a decent plan (what plan is great against such a great D?), but that its the plan mgoblog wanted.
And, he did make adjustments. We came out with all sorts of short stuff in the second half to exploit their blitzing. They even worked, in that guys were in position to make plays. They didn't make them.
And, the overarching issue of the entire season: what plays don't require the line to block? I'd love to have them. I just don't know what they are. This line is dreadful. It is fine to blame the coaches for that. Wanna fire Borges on account of that, go ahead. Just don't give the bullshit "play calling" excuse.
All I can do is sit here and pray that games like these don't convince Hand to sign with Bama or that Peppers should reconsider his commitment.
Let's put it this way: if I was an offensive recruit, I don't know why in the hell I'd sign with Michigan right now, judging by what I've seen. I hate to sound so pessimistic, but this program is in its third year and we have zero offensive identity.
Relax. I am pretty sure that these guys don't make the biggest decision in their life based on one game. And neither Peppers or Hand play offense.