Rich Rod's WVU recruiting classes
Just did some research on RR recuriting classes at WVU......
first did you know that Pat White was a 2 star Quarterback??
Rich Rod began at WVU in 2001
his recruiting class rankings
2002:#33
2003:#57
2004:#53 *P. White
2005:#33 *S. Slaton
2006:#56 *N. Devine
2007:#18 *1 game away from playing for NC....Dominating win over Oaklahoma in Fiesta Bowl
What RR does with talent is insane....Imagine what he is going to do with our guys!!
the 2008 class at michigan that RR inherited and added a few players too, Scout ranks #6..this year so far as of today Michigan 2009 class is ranked #13. So RR has already seen the best recruiting classes in his first two years at Michigan than he has his entire head coaching career!
January 5th, 2009 at 12:41 PM ^
Firstly, this post seems a year late.
Secondly, I for one believe most of the Major schools guru rankings are over-inflated just because of the names.
based on what you saw: Were all of Lloyds classes top10?
January 5th, 2009 at 1:05 PM ^
your right....pretty much Lloyds classes were all top ten. however I dont think Lloyd developed that talent as well as other coaches in the country do..
Lloyd inherited a roster with 24 All-Bigten and 1 Heisman trophy winner on it.
Lloyd gave RR a team with so far 2 All-Bigten players on it B. Graham and Z. Mesko
This post is never late. it is especially relevant during this years recruiting as some michigan fans do not think RR is the Guy.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:11 PM ^
Let's see...
Lloyd produced a Heisman winner, a #1 NFL pick, perhaps the best QB in NFL history, the top two passers and top rusher in school history, a couple first round receivers, a potential Hall of Fame guard, and if I recall correctly, Michigan currently has the second-most players in the NFL behind Miami, etc., etc.
Yep, Lloyd sure wasn't very good at developing talent.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:59 PM ^
Carr really doesnt have much to do with Brady's PRO success, if your giving him cred you have to talk about the great college players who didnt make it in the PROs. I think Carr gets a bad rap for his later years blunders and losses to some teams he shouldnt have lost to and being a non factor in the BCS. Which is probably just.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:07 PM ^
Carr (and his staff) deserve considerable credit for Brady's pro success. They recruited him, they put him in a pro style offense, they taught him how to play QB, and they gave him a chance to compete at a high level in college. Credit has to go somewhere, and options are somewhat limited.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:36 PM ^
don't get me wrong Carr was a decent coach....maybe a good coach.
They may have given Brady the tools he needed to start off but Brady developed himself into a quarterback. Brady's first few years in the leauge he was always the last one to leave patriots practice facility and we are talking till like 10pm at night. the Point is Brady made himself a good QB.
Also of note:
After the Pats drafted Shawn Crable Bill Bellichk compared him to Piere Woods. Bill also metioned that woods didn't play much in college and to that he sayd, "You'll have to ask Michigan why they didn't play him."
Lloyd could have been a lot better. But then again Bo never won a NC either.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:47 PM ^
Carr was a good coach. Decent coaches don't win national championships, win several Big Ten championships, and produce NFL talent in droves.
Woods was in the doghouse at Michigan. His lack of playing time was not due to being a poor football player.
Brady was practically an instant star with the Patriots. He took the QB job from a guy who some thought was on his way to the Hall of Fame. And he did it from the beginning of his second year in the league. Brady himself deserves more credit than anyone, I'm sure - but if any outside contributor deserves credit for developing him as a quarterback, it's Carr and his staff. He was excellent at Michigan and he's been excellent in the NFL.
If college coaches deserve credit for getting their players ready to succeed in the NFL, then there's really no argument. If you think college coaches have no effect on what a player does in the NFL, then I disagree, but you could still make that argument, I guess.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:29 PM ^
Pierre Woods hit Matt Guiterrez in practice the first game week of 2003, the hit that injured his shoulder and prematurely launched Chad Henne's career as a starter? I seem to recall him being in the doghouse for that.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:49 PM ^
That was a rumor, but I think it was refuted by insiders.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:02 PM ^
I dont see how you can give him credit for Brady's NFL success. College yes. Just like you cant say he did a bad job with other players. He helped prepare him yes. But Brady is fucking good for a reason. Talent and drive and heart etc. A college coach can only do so much to help a guys in the NFL. I give Belicheck (sp) and Staff more credit personally.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:22 PM ^
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing he learned more about playing quarterback from his five years in a pro-style, major college football program than he did in one season sitting on the bench in New England.
Like I said, if college coaches deserve any credit for developing players for the NFL, then Carr (and his staff) deserve it.
If college coaching has no effect, then he doesn't. But obviously I believe the former rather than the latter.
But if college coaching doesn't matter, then why has every quarterback since Elvis Grbac spent at least a year or two in the NFL? Grbac, Collins, Dreisbach, Griese, Brady, Henson, Navarre, Henne, etc. (I know not all of those guys were in Carr's time as head coach, but my point is that COLLEGE coaching matters.)
Is Brady successful ONLY because he worked really hard?
Is Michigan just flat-out better at recruiting QB's than 99% of the NCAA?
Again, I'm not saying that there aren't other factors. But if college coaching doesn't matter, then why does Michigan have such a good track record and why doesn't Michigan just hire Brooke Burke to coach the team?
January 5th, 2009 at 10:11 PM ^
Can we get Brooke Burke on the sideline anyway?
January 5th, 2009 at 1:33 PM ^
Awesome post that is a very exciting point. Well done nateusmc
January 5th, 2009 at 12:46 PM ^
Pat White....was a 2 star? That can't be right. Please check again and provide a source.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^
Ok so scout ranked him a 2 star QB and Rivals ranked him a 3 star ATH.
Scout.com
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=784181
Rivals.com
http://rivals100.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=23148
January 5th, 2009 at 12:54 PM ^
I always thought he was a 5* dual threat #1 recruit who picked WVU because of his well-known fascination with coal mining.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:04 PM ^
I guess he learned the sarcasm tag is invisible after that one.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:32 PM ^
Invisibly, of course.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:08 PM ^
I never thought he was ranked as low as he was...and it is also important to remember that P.White won 4 bowl games. and started as a walk on freshman......I am imagining the things RR can do for Tate!
January 5th, 2009 at 1:14 PM ^
Pat White was not a walk-on. Every guy you see listed as committed on the recruiting sites are guys offered a scholarship.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:29 PM ^
I meant to say true freshman
January 5th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^
You are right - and if Pat was a 2*, and Tate is a 4*, that means he is twice as better. Multiply by 2 again because Rodriguez is great at "developing talent", and I think Tate will win 8 Heismans and 9 straight bowl games.
January 5th, 2009 at 9:48 PM ^
and he might be even do better in his sophomore year.
January 10th, 2009 at 4:40 PM ^
And maybe he'll be able to throw the ball, too.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:53 PM ^
...who had committed to National Champion LSU (until he was snake oiled away by WVU on the last day) and was also being heavily recruited by Alabama. I'm guessing none of them bought the 2-star bit either.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:08 PM ^
Technically, you are right, because LSU wanted him to play safety or WR. So they probably thought he was even worse than a 2* QB.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:47 PM ^
2002: finished 25th AP 20th USA today
2003: finished unranked *dropped from top 25 after bowl
2004: finished unranked *dropped from top 25 in USA today
2005: finished 5th AP and 6th USA today
2006: finished 10th Ap and 10th USA today
2007: finished 6th Ap and 6th USA today
now look at RR recruiting classes
RR in 2001 at WVU 3-8
January 5th, 2009 at 12:49 PM ^
If that were true about Rich Rod doing such a great job with supposedly underwhelming talent, then how do you explain a 3-9 season in a bad Big Ten conference for us this year? It's not as simple as you make it out to be, Nate. Chitown had a great post about this very subject a few months ago (before the season, I believe). It compared RR's classes at WVU with the rest of the Big East. I'll try and find it when I have the time to go digging for it.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:56 PM ^
The key is relative talent. His classes were above average for the Big East.
Bottom line is that even a great coach can't consistently make up for a large talent deficit. If Rodriguez wins here, a lot of the reason will be he brings in great talent.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:59 PM ^
-2 Walk on QB's
-a patchwork O-Line
-Injuries
-Lots of True Freshman everywhere
-Totally new Offensive System
-and Stevie Brown!!!
besides, RR, every time he was a first year coach he had a horrible season.
1988 at Salem 2-8
1990 at Glennville St 1-7-1
2001 at WVU 3-8
2008 at UM 3-8
he turned around glennville and WVU
i was just comparing WVU classes nationally and their rankings nationally.
January 10th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
"2008 at UM 3-8"
3-9.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:12 PM ^
Right - his classes were, on par, about average (at worst) for the Big East. So he wasn't competing with a disadvantage - at least in conference. That said, when they beat Georgia and Oklahoma, there was clearly a talent discrepancy there.
If you consider BC, Miami, and Va Tech in the Big East (as they were for part of RR's tenure), then his recruiting wasn't on the same level. BUT, the Big East, in general, has an appreciatively lower level of talent than the Big 10.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:34 PM ^
Getting classes ranked in the 30's and succeeding in the Big East, where all the other teams were getting classes in the 30's, 40's and 50's also, does not make the point that he thinks it does. If that were so then Utah's coach would automatically be thought to be a lock to win NC's if he goes to a BCS conference--he may in fact do that, as RR may, but not due to this analysis. This recruiting analysis shows nothing other than what we already know, that RR can coach, but the jury is out.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:37 PM ^
If that were true about Rich Rod doing such a great job with supposedly underwhelming talent, then how do you explain a 3-9 season in a bad Big Ten conference for us this year?
You explain it the same way you explain John Beilein going 10-22 last season, Pete Carroll going 6-6 in 2001 - and the same way you explain Larry Coker going 12-0 in 2001, Brett Bielema going 12-1 in 2006, and so on. The theme? The first year of a coach's tenure often reveals little about his coaching ability, and more about the situation he stepped into.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:22 PM ^
Almost everything you see above is sarcasm. It's nothing personal, but we all know Pat White was lowly regarded, Rodriguez had success anyway, etc. These guys are messing with you.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:36 PM ^
I decided to look into this today. My interest in this topic was sparked by the high school all-star games this weekend and us getting back the Otter. Most Michigan fans i meet do not know what to think of RR....and they also reguard Lloyds days as the prime....I however think lloyd is responsible for the decline of michigan football. I also recently came across a Fire RR website....probably a hoax or a buckeye but still....the fan base hasn't entirely bought in....and all this talent relative to the big east thing has weight but, look at WVU top 25 finishes.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:42 PM ^
The fans who think Carr caused the downfall of the program are very short-sighted and fail to remember that we've won exactly one national championship in the last 50 years and he's the one who got us there. He's not the greatest coach in history, but he did win 1 more national championship than Bo.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:38 PM ^
Won with Gary Moller's Talent
January 5th, 2009 at 2:44 PM ^
Which is something that Gary Moeller failed to do.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:49 PM ^
Please don't tell me you're one of those people.
I guess Urban Meyer isn't very good, either. Ron Zook was the REAL genius!
January 5th, 2009 at 2:54 PM ^
We should also just give John Blake (12-22 at Oklahoma) the credit for Stoops' championship.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:09 PM ^
No Im not....I just am not that fond of Lloyd Carr. and thats that! My personal Opinion. But i felt he underachieved as a coach. and I really didn't like loosing to App State.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:10 PM ^
Well that's nuts. I fuckin loved it.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:35 PM ^
....then you would have hated losing to an unranked, losing record team like Minnesota in 1977 and 1986.
Cost us national titles each year.
Bo. Fawking underachiever.
Quit pissing and moaning about the Appy St loss, fer gawd's sake. The better team, with the better QB, won that day.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:55 PM ^
Awful, Nate. Just fucking awful. You can do better than that bullshit cliche.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:48 PM ^
Gary Moeller's talent? This was Carr's third full year coaching the team, and although a lot of these guys were GM's recruits, certainly not all of them were. And any guys in their 3rd year or younger (this includes Woodson) were coached by Lloyd for their entire college career. Unless you think a coach's job is done after recruitment, this is an unintelligent comment.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:58 PM ^
He probably heard Colin Cowherd or one of The Clones on the Jungle spew it.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:07 PM ^
Also, Lloyd, as an assistant, was the point man for the recruitment of much of the defense (Woodson, Steele, and Sword come to mind).
January 5th, 2009 at 4:36 PM ^
Epic, all time upset of historic proportions.
All the credit clearly goes to Bump Elliot.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:47 PM ^
for UM to play WVU in a bowl game. Can't wait!
Because I have always heard that Stewart was the brains of that organization and RR was just riding his coattails.
Get the sailboat on the horn. Schedule an OOC game NOW!
Seriously, I do think RR thought the world was gonna lay down for him once he got here. I remember the interview when he was talking about recruiting with tht big M on his chest. Trouble is, kids these days can barely read.
So, there's that.