Count on it.
Which may be another reason to take a thoughtful approach to decision making.
Count on it.
Which may be another reason to take a thoughtful approach to decision making.
That if we do bring in a big name new coach, he is likely to bring a solid portion of his recruiting class with him.
That being said,
Martin is the name I would worry about
I don't think coaches bring a "solid portion" of their recruiting classes with them at all. That said, I also don't know what you mean by "Martin is the name I'd worry about." Rodriguez means offense at Michigan. If he goes, there assumedly goes the spread offense. I'm much, much more worried about Denard leaving than Mike Martin (assuming that's the "Martin" you were refering to). Maybe I'm just not smart this evening . . .
This is a new thought that no one has ever wondered aloud about on the board before.
First of all, I think DRob has stated that he wants to play QB in the NFL, right? If that's true, he might as well get acquainted with some pro style offense in college. Second of all, I don't think Harbaugh would instantly name Tate the starter. For at least next season, I imagine that JH would rotate a little bit, perhaps even running some wild cat or whatever. Denard would still get his share of snaps, but probably less than this year.
Finally, I think Denard is a competitor who loves Michigan. I imagine he'd be "All in for Harbaugh" and stick around to compete at the QB position (any may even compete at other positions).
I have no doubts that Denard is the type of kid who is All In for Michigan regardless of the coach or the offense, but if he's not All In, then ... well... we only talk about kids who play for Michigan!
DG is built like a young Andrew Luck. I know Stanford recruited Tate out of High School but everybody recruited DG. If Harbaugh comes expect DR or DG to be the starter, they just bring more to the table than Tate does.
Maybe, but from what I remember Denard played at Michigan b/c Rodriguez was one of the few (maybe the only?) coach who promised he would *not* be moved to slot, or defense, or whatever...
I initially read your title as "Regime Change and Defecations." I was enthusiastic about its prospects.
I dont think thats been covered before. Feel free to start the topic.
for a moment, I thought someone had hatched a plan to drop trou and "dot the I" at Ohio Stadium.
Is Brandon aware of the cost of building Harbaugh a new poop room?
No matter who coaches this team next year, it will be much improved. More upperclassmen, the practices and a bowl game, good recruits coming in. Didn't the guy down the road just take basically the same 6-7 team and go 11-1? I think it's to much of a gamble to switch coaches now, IMHO.
As much I as love Denard and want him to stay no matter what. The progress of the program is more important that any one person, even a Heisman front runner and even a better person.
If Brandon wants change, do it right and get the best. None of this Harbaugh or bust.
...for Denard to leave.
First, he is comfortable here. Second, despite what changes occur, Harbaugh would probably run a variation of the spread. He doesn't have a perfect drop back passer, the OL is built on the spread...and it is sort of working.
Second, if Denard wanted to leave...where would he go? Everyone is assuming that RRod would have a certain job somewhere...I don't see that happening. Assuming RRod doesn't get a quick job, is there another offense that runs the spread like we do, where Denard could just 'plug in' and succeed? I am not so sure.
I am sure we will have a lot of defections, especially at RB and slot.
Frankly, t hough, all of these discussions are short term thinking. We have to look at long term. And if Denard is the price of that, so be it.
Something tells me RRod would be ok going to the U....
grabbing RR. Kinda scary thinking what he could do as a HC in Flordia. Do you think the local media would trash him upon arrival? Do you think factions at Miami would not support him and try to ruin him because he isn't a Miami Man? Do the think the fans would give him a fair shake and enough time to win? Makes you wonder what his real problem is here. Don't think he is the problem.
Are you saying it's the fans fault he is not winning games? really?
Criticism is valid. However, I hear too much " I don't like RR". Do they know him personally? No. So how can such a lame statement be made. Oh, their ego is hurt at the pub 'cause the coach and team aren't winning like in the past. Many factors linked together created a devisive image of current UM football. No, they don't win games ... obviously. But demeaning the coach surely isn't the definition of being a representative of Michigan as a fan.
Michigan is winning games. Seven (maybe eight) this year to be specific.
He isn't the only problem...we have too many petulant fans who called for LC's head every year, complaining that we'll never be an 'elite' program and should throw the ball more, run the spread, tired of the 'three yards and a cloud of dust', etc, etc. Now we go in a different direction with the end goal to become a modern program that competes every year for the MNC, and these same bitches want it now.
RR to UM was the first thing that crossed my mine. Might be a perfect fit. Less intense media coverage, ability to recruit that kind of speed in FL. They/his style could run over the state of FL, then the south, then perhaps the MNC. Is that what we want in this situation? Turn him away, then get headed pay-back in a bowl or worse, BCS game...
Urban Myer wouldn't kill to have Denard as a option now, you're kidding yourself.
I wonder if Dave Brandon is considering the implications of pissing away his #1 most marketable, household-name product in Denard Robinson by firing Rodriguez.
Denard will follow him wherever he goes, and we will be left to win "with cruelty", as Harbaugh likes to say.
I will probably never be able to follow college football again, as watching Denard go on to win the Heisman at another school would essentially mean that Michigan Football is dead.
So following your logic.... has Michigan Football been dead since Mallett left?
Is this serious? If so, then dumb.
I don't think MIchigan football is dead. I was just following the posters logic that Michigan football would be dead if DRob left. Michigan football is and always has been bigger than one player/coach.
His most marketable product is his coach, not Denard. Sure some players come to a school to play with a certain player, but way more come to play for a coach. I think Denard would leave, especially since he did not redshirt. It would be a tragedy, but I won't blame him for wanting to play in a spread offense. As painful as that departure would be, we can't base a decision on one player, especially when Harbaugh would have no problem developing the remaing QBs and continuing the great QB tradition.
Your post is a good example of posts that refer to Brandon's CEO background and then conclude that he will keep Rrod for whatever business reason. But keep in mind that he is also an athletic director and ADs have their own tendancies. Specifically, they often like to pick their own guy to lead the program. I haven't seen any convicning evidence that DB will approach this as a typical CEO rather than as a typical AD.
- Denard seems to love Michigan and his teammates. Players don't often leave when they're happy.
- Denard was given a chance to play QB, and in the process broke the NCAA rushing record for a QB and has a good shot at the overall rushing crown this fall.
- For any upperclassmen QB, there are two main goals: winning and preparing for the next level. I honestly don't know which coach has a better chance at winning over the next two years, so I won't touch on that. However, no one will prepate Denard for the NFL better than Harbaugh. Either Denard will stay at QB where Harbaugh will coach him into the best QB he can be (high ceiling here) or Harbaugh and Denard will decide that it's in his best interest to play WR or RB at the next level, and Denard will get acclimated at a new position in a pro-style offense and be ready for the draft where he'll make millions. Very few other coaches will prepare him for the NFL better than Harbaugh.
The only instance where Denard leaves is if he says he'll only play QB and Harbaugh says no, you can't. JH is a good coach and DR is a smart guy and great player so I'm sure they'd come to a compromise.
i think its interesting that you thin harbaugh will prepare denard better for the nfl better than rich rod.. If i remember coach rod has had a good run of players going to the league. I know he has had two qbs in the nfl and many other players. I cant think of another harbaugh player in the nfl beside tobey garhart, if im wrong please correct me. so for you to say that harbaugh will better prepare him for the nfl is not true. also why all this talk about denard changing positions this pisses me off more than anything and makes me think there is some kind of agenda or sterotype about a black quarterback always having to change positions.. would you be asking for tate to change positions if the situation was reversed.
FIrst of all, you have to go back a long ways to find a RR QB who was successful in the NFL. But I'm not basing this on what these coaches have done in the past, but on the style they coach and Harbaugh's experience in the NFL and with other NFL coaches. Harbaugh's style is much more similar to what the NFL runs than RR's, especially for a QB.
Talking about the possibility of Denard switching positions has nothing to do with his skin tone and everything to do with his skill set and body type. People didn't talk about Vince Young or Donovan McNabb switching positions, but they did about Eric Crouch (OMG he's white!). Denard Robinson is a QB much more similar to Crouch or Randle El than he is to Young or McNabb. I'm not saying he should switch, but he might decide that he can make more money as a Randle El or Percy Harvin type player than trying to break into the NFL as an undersized dual-threat QB.
I'm not saying this will certainly happen. If Denard can continue to improve his accuracy and his ability to read defenses, he will be an even better college QB and will have a shot playing QB in the pros. However, if he decides to play a role more similar to Reggie Bush or Harvin, he will almost certainly be a 1st or 2nd round pick.
no you're basing this on who will better prepare you for the nfl. I still think rrod has done this better in the past.. pat white was a second round pick at qb.. although it did not work out for him he got drafted playing this system.. I think coach rod has a pretty good list of players making it to the nfl. with all of harbaugh experience in the nfl i still can think of any of his qb being in the nfl.. For the record luck wanted to go to wvu but pat white was there and rrod passed on him.
Well, agree to disagree then. Harbaugh hasn't coached many big time college QB's, but Pat White isn't exactly a great example to use. He's probably a guy who should have moved to WR in the NFL. Instead of switching positions he switched sports.
Where did race enter into this analysis except from you Fab5. No one brought it up except for you. There are some very good black quarterbacks in the nfl. Guess what there are allso a lot of black wide recievers and running backs. Why does everyone have to go to the damn race card thats that pisses me off!!
Its because i've never heard anyone ask a white qb to switch positons as much as i do with black qbs.. if that bothers you so what im just questioning what i see and hear
Thats fine you can question. I am just questioning you on playing the race card were it doesn't seem to have a place. A personal pet peave of mine.
It bothers me too but sometimes you have to question race because all last year on this damn blog i would read denard should change position and he cant throw.. that bothers me when you dont give someone a chance and look at what denard just accomplished in his first year as the starting qb.. thats why i mention if because people are always so quick to rigt someone off what they think should be done.
Again, people weren't saying "Denard should switch positions, he can't throw" because he was black, it's because he's super athletic....and he couldn't throw. I'm glad he didn't switch, as is everyone, but you are again making up the race part in your head.
But you're making up the race part on your own. Did you ever hear someone ask Byron Leftwich to move to WR? How about Daunte Culpepper? David Garrard? They are all black.
It's not a coincidence that a lot of athletic QBs are black. But not all of them are. I used the Eric Crouch example. Also at Nebraska, I wouldn't be surprised if Taylor Martinez decides to play wideout in the pros.
If Ricky Stanzi can't play QB in the NFL, he probably will not get a shot to play WR. Not because he's white, because he's slow.
Scott Crouch. Scott Frost. Julian Edelman. Drew Bennett. Tim Tebow (there was much talk about this).
If you haven't ever "heard" of it, it's because you aren't paying attention.
you win guys I dont know what im talking about... race never plays a role in anything i must be living in bizzaro world or something... all i did was question why people want denard to switch positions all the time when he has been a successful qb and given a shot he could be mike vick in the nfl but according to many on this blog he has no chance at qb at the next level.. i wasnt playing the race card just questioning the issue of denard always being ask to switch positions
Shawn King...Woody Danztler... and Pat White lets be real about Rich and his QB's they don't transition well into the NFL. I'm not trying to knock Rod i'm just trying to be honest. Also does anyone know the number of WV players that Rich brought with him to Mich. If there wasn't a mass exodus of players when he left WV why do we think there would be if he left Mich.
devine would have followed but his grades would have never transferred over to mich.. this was probably the case with the majority of wv football players
Will Lloyd Brady still be here, or will he transfer?
What about when he graduates? Brian should get on the phone with grad school admissions staff...
Robinson seems to be more humble and team oriented than Mallett. Tate was recruited by Harbaugh. I think DG could succeed under Harbaugh.
Im sure we will see some transfers, but I think RR to Harbuagh or whoever will be more smooth than Carr to RR. Under a head coaching change, the OL is 10x better than it was under the previous change. This will help the offense be more successful than 08 (regardless of the system change).
The defense sucks we all know this, I think DB should focus on the defense in this decision if he's serious about winning championships. The last 5 Big Ten and NCAA champions have had solid defenses.
There is always some, but it can be minimized if the coach agrees to make some concessions to make the inherited players happy. RR was reluctant to do this and we suffered an above-average level of attrition.
I don't know who else would transfer. Maybe some slot guys, Gallon or TRob, but I bet they would still be used. Other than those guys, I think the only transfers would be guys who aren't going to see the field anyway. Outside of slot ninjas, Harbaugh will use all the same guys in his offense.
Denard and others specifically suited for the spread leave for more appropriate programs that will best utilize their skill sets. I didn't begrudge Mallett et al. that left in a classy way when RR was hired for one second, even though it left UM in a lurch. Mallett was a great QB who wasn't going to achieve what he has at Arkansas if he stayed here. The players need to do what's best for them. Coaching transitions are meant to include some turnover and it's not up to us to decide how these talented players need to spend their talents.
Wasting Denard's talents as a slot or some bullshit here at UM would be a travesty. I very much hope he would follow RR or head to an Oregon type team. He and many others with redshirt years would be better served by moving on and I would encourage them to do so. It's hard not to be selfish and want them to stay, but I try not to be.
Wow, I just really disagree. Mallett was different, his goal, like many other big time college players, was to prepare himself for the NFL as best he could. RR isn't an offense built for that. However, I don't think Denard's talents would be wasted under JH. Denard can throw the ball well, and he might very well stay at QB. Or, he could be Reggie Bush in a pro-style offense. I don't think Reggie Bush's talents were wasted at USC, nor were Percy Harvin's wasted at UF.
That's the role he would play with us if he moved positions, and no doubt JH would make sure he got he ball in his hands as much as possible. And he's be better prepared for the NFL. Win-win.
I see very little attrition if we make a move to JH. DB and assuming they actually even make a move, JH will make sure the kids have a place on this team. JH should be excited about the prospects on this team, especially Denard. With Gardner waiting in the wings might I add.
But lets not get ahead of ourselves right........?
How sick would Drob be if we could get him the ball on the edge without haveing to line him up at QB. If he can catch the ball on a screen juke a defensive back and he would be gone. Also you could line him up at reciever in a 5 wide, thus forcing defenses to take out linebackers and add more DBs. Motion him back to the backfield and hand the ball off to him. The more i think about using him in that regards the more excited i get, not to mention he can still throw the ball.
I question the comment that Stanford runs as close to old time football as possible, in fact I am of the opinion that they have a more diverse offensive scheme than what Michigan has today. Take a quick look at Andrew Luck's rushing numbers, averaging about 50 yards rushing per game on about 5-6 designed runs per game. Nope - I enjoy Rich Rod's offense, but firmly believe that Harbaugh's scheme would produce far more fruit for both Denard and Michigan. Reason 1 - help the defense! Simply by huddling up beetween plays and developing a solid running back driven ground game it will eat the clock and give our beaten defense a much needed rest between each series. #2 - how crazy awesome would it be to see Denard run a real play action - maybe even a naked bootleg off a power play action with 2 guys in the pattern? Can you imagine Denard against a single Defensive End - oops? #3 - Denard will not take as many hits every game while maintaining more than 100 rush yards per game. Why? Again Harbaugh knows how to create a run game with running backs which will create natural opportunities for bootlegs, quarterback draws and simple scrambles off covered pass plays. Then the occasional power QB run just might be successful like it was early in the season.
I definitely agree with this. He would run the ball 5 times a game, and get 20 yards each time. If Andrew Luck scrambles and gets 10 yards, how many yards does Denard get on that same play?
When Rich Rodriguez arrived, most of the defections were on offense. And most of those occurred because Rodriguez is very much a “system coach,” and he made very clear from Day One that there would be no compromise to accommodate the talents of Lloyd Carr’s players.
That last paragraph is not a criticism of Rodriguez, just a factual statement of what he did. And it was probably the right thing. If Michigan was going to be a spread team, there was no point in delaying the transition.
Harbaugh (assuming he is the guy) is not a “system coach.” He hasn’t spent 10 or 15 years running one thing. Stanford runs a different offense than Michigan, but there’s no evidence he cannot adapt to the talent at hand. In fact, he did that at Stanford.
I mean, if you inherit the Big Ten offensive player of the year, do you say “F*ck him, I’m running a pro offense?”
As we speculate the arrival of Harbaugh, he would surely be tested as a recruiter by his own inherited players. Think of the coaches/recruiters that would be in Denard's ears trying to get him to defect.
I would prefer that RR get the 4th year to prove what he can do with Jr/Sr players. However, if I could get confirmation from JH that he wouldn't pull a RR and reverse our O, then I could live with the change. I just see so much potential on the roster that I hate to see it get wasted because another scheme change. Hell, I'd even consider Miles at this point as I know our current players would fit into his offensive scheme.
current coaches cant solicit other teams players to come play for them. IF Drob happens to leave I think he'd end up following RRod.
Denard had demonstrated that he is at least capable of being a pretty decent passer once he gets his motion down. Remember, Michael Vick is doing pretty well in a so-called pro style offense in Philadelphia. If Harbaugh is creative he could run something similar. Denard might not run as much, but I have trouble imagining that Harbaugh would just scrap the talents of the Big Ten Offensive POY, or try to get him to move where he is less effective.